DJ360

Jim. I'll come back on the rise of the far right later. As for Galloway. The only person Galloway is working for is Galloway. He's a Pound Shop Farage with a similar record of failed parties and incoherent rantings. I very much doubt he'll survive the next election, but it makes little difference eitherway.

Gerry was a very talented singer. My current favourite song by Gerry and the Pacemakers:

Some rather insensitive comments here I think. I'm no fan of cookery progs, but if forced to choose, I'd choose the Hairy Bikers. They always came across as genuinely decent chaps as well as excellent cooks. They also did no harm to the sometimes dubious reputation of 'bikers'. R.I.P Dave.

Back onto much more important Political issues. I invite anyone interested, to have a look at the last few pages of a long running thread elsewhere, on the subject of: 'The Rise of the Far Right' I'm not saying I agree with every word by any means, but I have been trying to raise awareness of what I see as a real threat to our Democracy, for years. Look at the antics of Truss and her association with the criminal Steve Bannon.. just the tip of the iceberg. Add in Lee Anderson and all those like Mogg etc., who are 'presenters' on the appalling GB 'News

Lizzie, I'm not sure where the 'envy' comes in. Nobody on here, me included, is saying you don't have the right to pay for private education. I also recognise that some will have little problem paying fees running into thousands, whilst others might have to make considerable sacrifice to do so. However, the vast majority simply don't have the 'wherewithall' to 'go private', however much they might want to, and in any case we are all entitled to ask Govt. why it becomes necessary at all? It's not difficult to show that funding for state schools fell by around 8% after the Tories

Because possession of that Hymn Book was compulsory. Everyone kept it permanently in the pocket of their jacket. It was smaller and thinner than an average paperback and had a pale blue cover. It was also normal practice to keep your timetable taped to the inside rear cover. I can see the timetable now.. hand drawn little boxes representing each period with the subject, room and teacher's initials in each. As for religion. I just went along with it without any real faith and I have to say I absolutely loved the annual Carol Service at the High Pavement Chapel from which the school or

Looking back the cost of a bit of school kit was a pittance compared to the cost of the education provided and probably even less when you consider that everybody had to have clothes to wear to school whatever. The fact that some couldn't accept places because they couldn't afford the requisite 'kit' is scandalous..especially considerinig the 'egalitarian' motives of the 1944 Act. There really should have been some sort of formal system of assistance in place.

That's the one! I think also that Sisson and Parker were the big Stationers who supplied schools with exercise books etc.

I can see that. I forget the name of the Uniform Supplier in Friar Lane. They supplied the best quality jackets etc, but jackets could also be had from the co-op, for less. They soon faded and became quite obvious but nobody I know looked down on the wearers. I don't recall snobbery of any sort during my time at HP. As we emerged onto Gainsford Crs. and some of the Padstow lot emerged opposite, there was occasional banter, but nothing serious. They decided to call us 'Cads'. I don't know if they knew what it meant.

I was always in a world of my own back then and didn't understand the 'machinations', but my pal Nigel , from the grocer's round the corner, was exceptionally bright. He went through some sort of assessment for Nottm High School.. for a scholarship as I understood it. Another lad, who always struck me as a bit dim, also went through the same process and was offered a place. I don't suppose the fact that his dad was an Inspector of Police, whilst Nigel's dad was a grocer..had the slightest influence on the outcome... Eitherway.. Nige went to HP and then on to be a Dr of Consumer Psycholo

Obviously I don't know the demands made by Mundella, but HP requirements were 'Do-able'. -Approved jacket and tie, plus cap until yr 3. The rest was pretty much standard across all secondaries., such as grey or black trousers and 'proper' shoes. Grey or White shirts. 'Loud' socks were discouraged, but not a hanging offence. The school scarf was optional, my Grandma bought me one for Christmas... A white cotton apron for science and woodwork/metalwork. Most parents made them. Two Rugby shirts. One in Blue and the other in house colours. Blue Rugby short

Yes, it all sounds very priveleged when you put it that way, but it was rather less than 'plain sailing'. Yes, I went to a very good Grammar School because I met the criteria of the time and my parents (and wider family) contributed to equipping me with all of the 'extras' required. I was a moderately successful student, but messed up totally after leaving, partly due to my own obstinacy/bad judgement, but also due to almost non existent career guidance. I didn't go to Uni until 16 years later and only then because it was the only way I could see to get back into stable, wort

You continue to miss the gigantic Elephant in the Room. Even if, as is doubtful.. there is some educational equivalence between the two, Independent Schools are only accessible to those who can afford to pay for the privelege, Grammar Schools were open to those who met the criteria of the time, FOR FREE. It's arguable that the 11+ system created 'winners and losers'. It is a simple fact, that the existence of fee paying Independents allows a 'win' to be purchased by those who can afford to do so.

Well of course Kev, you are correct in saying that words change in meaning and usage over time. Some like those you quote, change slowly and sort of permanently. Others come and go almost by the week, such as the way youngsters communicate almost by a code, in which, for e.g., 'sick' meant ' excellent' and 'bad, meant 'cool, or 'good' etc.. I still maintain that 'Woke' is a special case, because the word had a specific meaning from its origin in 1930s US black culture. It meant 'alert to injustice'. It was revived and became much more widely known after the high profile racist m

Which raises a couple of interesting issues. Why Kirkby and not some other adjacent area? Also, If I recall correctly, that utter Bastion of Democracy, Boris Johnson, attacked the electoral commission and removed its independence. I don't have time to further research that at the moment..but 'just saying'..

I wouldn't use Woke. It's too broad and ill-defined and as I say is a convenient term for the political right to use to whip up populist rage against anything and everything which doesn't suit their agenda. In that sense its misappropriation is both dishonest AND dangerous. I've no doubt that there will be people out there who are happy to describe anyone who opposes Lee Anderson's recent inflammatory comments as 'woke'. In the specific example you quoted, surrounding the use of an obsolete word, in an obsolete film, I would use the term 'historical revisionist' to describe the motivatio

And so were/are 'Independent' schools.. you really can't deflect all criticism of Independents by attacking Grammars.

Not sure there are many real patterns. Some people blame their every problem on not passing the 11+ and harbour a deep resentment, without any real understanding of what they would have been required to do. Others hated every minute of Grammar School. There seems to be a huge amount of affection for Padstow Secondary School, which my brother and sister both went to. My late Sister, bless her, was never academic, but neither was she bothered by that. My Brother, on the other hand often relates how difficult it was to be heard through the rabble and get help from teachers if struggling wit

HP was divided into 4 'streams'. Nothing to do with 11+ results as I recall, because we were all just taught the same stuff in Yrs 7,8 and 9. Allocation to one of the 4 'streams' was based on performance in years 7, 8 and 9...a.k.a. First Second and Third Form. The formal GCE courses did not start until 4th year and your range of subjects was mostly determined by your 'stream'. 'Modern A'. The top lot, they did English Language and Lit, three sciences, Latin plus one other other Modern Language, History OR Geography and Maths. 9 Subjects.. if memory serves. 'Science A' All

In a very real sense, nobody 'passed' or 'failed' the 11 plus. It was a selection process, not an exam. And it also wasn't for life, unless people just rolled over and accepted their 'fate'. There are numerous examples of people who did as well or better, both financially and educationally, after having missed a Grammar School place. I fully agree that it was a pretty brutal selection process and there are multiple criticisms which can and have been levelled at the process, but it was arguably better than what went before, since, as I understand it, access to Grammar School type ed

How? It isn't illegal to pay for an 'exclusive' education, but you argued that attending Grammar Schools via selection on ability smacked of 'pulling the ladder up', and yet somehow you appear to be saying that having the means to buy a 'better' education doesn't. And anyway, my issue is with Charitable Status for 'independent' (I.E. Fee Charging) schools.

Here's a post from earlier I typed but neglected to press 'submit'. I withdraw the word 'merit' and replace it with 'ability'. Is that less 'elitist'? And yet being wealthier does? I didn't say that. They were proud, but they also very firmly reminded me of just how much even this 'free' Grammar School education was going to cost for stuff like uniforms etc., and expected me to act accordingly. I was immensely proud not only to go to the school, but of the school itself.

It's actually 'One Word' Inspection Reports I dislike as they are meant to convey an impression to all and sundry. The 11+ was a selection process. A different method with a different purpose. I don't know how the 11+ was assessed, but I do know that there were a number of elements to it. and it was used to select enough students to fill the available Grammar School places, as well as, I assume, Technical School places.It wasn't perfect, but what is?

I withdraw the word 'merit' and replace it with 'ability'. Is that less 'elitist'? And yet being wealthier does? I didn't say that. They were proud, but they also very firmly reminded me of just how much even this 'free' Grammar School education was going to cost for stuff like uniforms etc., and expected me to act accordingly. I was immensely proud not only to go to the school, but of the school itself.

You miss my point entirely. It is not about 'nanny states', or Govt. 'micro management'. It is about haveing effective regulation. It is Tory 'deregulation' and the privatisation of regulation to dispense with the myth of 'red tape', which brought us to this pass. Had the Tories not deliberately deregulated then those responsible would be much more easily brought to book and it's probable Grenfell would not have happened anyway. Deregulation of everything from Construction, to Health, to Public Utilities and Transport have been an unmitigated disaster. You know this.