Henry Barker, Smart & Brown

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

Excuse my ignorance but is this anywhere near the derby road cathedral

A bit further down from there. Nearest modern equivalent is this corner http://goo.gl/maps/2RoOI

[Commo 1,292]

Rob, re #22, I would second your opinion of "Churchill's" for the café.

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

The Sliver Knight Cafe is mentioned elsewhere. AFAIK it was further towards Derby Road island on the same side. A wooden temporary affair.

It was mentioned in this thread http://nottstalgia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8345&page=1 but there don't seem to be any photos of it.

[bazalways 26]

Why was it called Walton House? Is Walton a well known Nottingham family? Just wondered because of the Walton Hotel in the Park.

I think you will find that like many Buildings & even Streets in the area it is names after either the Owner, Landowner or even an Investor. In this case, probably one of the Walton's of Walker Walton & Hanson Estate Agents, of Byard Lane. They were the agents for this building at the time of BT occupation.

[bazalways 26]

Commo at 29,

Absolutely right mate, Churchill's cafe between the Carlton Cinema & Mount St Bus Station.

Regarding the other elusive café/restaurant, there were two Greek brothers kept three restaurants in Nottingham. Because 2 doesn't go into three, only 2 of them could be open at any time. They were the Moulin Rouge on Trinity square between Milton St.& Forman Street, Another near the now closed Sony Shop,(probable No.5 Mansfield Road), the third, a few doors up from the Carlton cinema towards Derby Road. Of the later two I remember the name of only one. The Silver Grill, I believe this one was near the Carlton, but it may have been the other.

[denshaw 2,871]

I have got memories of a cafe near Mount st bus station possibly a wooden construction, it had a juke box and a pinball machine. This would be late sixties.

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

Another photo of what seems to have been called Churchill's. Looking at it head on, down Mount Street (small building with triangular roof). Mount Street bus station is just off to the left.

[ChrisB 150]

It most definitely was Churchills, I have a book with a picture which confirms it.

It seems that Barton's had a plot of land on the opposite corner where they parked spare buses.

Are there any pictures taken in the opposite direction? i.e. from Henry Barker. S & B looking up Mount Street?

[Craig Strongman 13]

I have got memories of a cafe near Mount st bus station possibly a wooden construction, it had a juke box and a pinball machine. This would be late sixties.

I used to spend many an evening in there.

It was in my leather jacketed phase, not that I was anywhere near old enough to have a motor bike, in fact I was only 13 or 14.

I can recall The Beatles We Can Work It Out being played regularly on the juke box!

The place had more than its share of dubious Nottingham characters,including one guy called Fred Dawson I think, and his mate a tall lanky greaser called Slim, who when I started wearing mod clothes, he said he would rather kick my head in than a mods, because I couldn't make up my mind which I'd rather be....nice bloke eh!

Anyone else remember these two ?

PS, I recall my mum telling me it was owned by Councillor Churchill, his relatives living just up the road from where we used to live on Northgate New Basford.

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

Going back to Henry Barker, Smart & Brown, this is the best photo so far to show the 'funny windows'. You can just about identify them if you know what you are looking for. I didn't find it, it came via bazalways who had been trawling Picture the Past.

And another not so clear from a slightly different angle.

[ChrisB 150]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't those pictures taken from Chapel Bar, looking down Angel Row with Mount Street on the right?

That would make Henry Barker, Smart & Brown just past the back end of the Barton bus in the top pic, or did their premises front onto Angel Row as well?

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

Correct ChrisB, the photos were taken on Chapel Bar looking down towards the Market Square with Mount Street on the right. You've thrown a spanner in the works about "did their premises front onto Angel Row as well" because until now I think that's what everyone else was referring to and assuming! The 'funny windows' - in the top photo - are immediately in front of (i.e behind) the lady on the left with the shopping bag; two pairs of windows either side of the entrance.

Your suggestion that their premises were also round the corner on Mount Street - where the Barton bus is - may be correct but I don't recall any unusual windows along there.

[ChrisB 150]

There is a picture in 'The Prestige Series' book about Midland General buses which confirms that part of Henry Barker, S & B's premises were on Mount Street. Unfortunately it cannot be reproduced due to copyright but it's dated 1949.. It would suggest that the shop was probably reverse 'L' shaped with the Mount Street part being of low build although the windows were not particularly unusual, just multi-paned and slightly bowed.

I believe that this part was re-built in the 1960's when it became much higher and when Henry Barker closed, it became Beatties Model Shop.

This location must have been photographed hundreds of times because every bus which terminated at Mount Street unloaded right outside the shop. I feel sure that someone has posted a picture of the windows in question but I cannot find it for the life of me!

Incidentally, it appears that Churchills Cafeteria was preceded by a much more modest affair which was called 'Joe's Snack Bar'

[Rob.L 1,088]

Another angle from Mount Street, courtesy of PTP.

(Can't embed from Tapatalk)

https://www.hpacde.org.uk/picturethepast/jpgh_nottingham/NTGM014102.jpg

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

That's an interesting photo which I don't think I'd seen before - Mount Street before it became the width it is now. The building on the right with horizontal lines is still there and recognisable (some kind of identikit-coffee place), and you can see the entrance to West End Arcade to the right of "Kays".

Even in 1901 the HBSB building is marked as 'Furniture Warehouse'.

[Rob.L 1,088]

Found another pic of Barkers from PTP from about the same time as that map.

[ChrisB 150]

The map confuses me a little.

Presumably it must have been sometime after that date, 1901, that Granby Street was extended upwards and crossed Mount Street towards Park Row?

Didn't Granby Street and Mount Street form a crossroads with Churchills Cafeteria, Barton's Bus Park and Emprex Works on three of the corners?

[bamber 128]

HBS&B occupied the building that is now the main city library so it always had its main frontage on Angel Row.

[Rob.L 1,088]

Few other pics on PTP, but this one shows the location a bit better than others. The flags are to celebrate VE Day.

[Cliff Ton 10,457]

Didn't Granby Street and Mount Street form a crossroads with Churchills Cafeteria, Barton's Bus Park and Emprex Works on three of the corners?

......as demonstrated on a number of photos!. I don't know when Granby Street was extended but by the 1950s your junction existed.

[ChrisB 150]

Ah, thanks, that explains it.

Presumably the 'PH' for Public House was the old Hearty Goodfellow and the Emprex Works was next to it.

[Craig Strongman 13]

Ah, thanks, that explains it.

Presumably the 'PH' for Public House was the old Hearty Goodfellow and the Emprex Works was next to it.

My uncles father, Sir Albert Martin was the Martin part of Martin Emprex.

[Paul Cotton 2]

Trying to complete my family tree as far as possible. Does anyone have any information about the 'Brown' of HBS&B, please?

[carni 10,094]

#49

Re Martin Emprex

Before i left Nottingham i worked for a short time as a sewing machinist at a firm with this name, making lingerie, it would have been around 1965. Does the firm still exist?

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Ref #50 The Brown of Henry Barker Smart and Brown seems to be this chap below , Joseph Austin Brown .....and a photograph ! From the Evening Post 20/04/1936 below .

I have also seen a mention of an A.C. Brown as Chairman of the firm of Smart and Brown and I assume that that was his father , though could be a brother ? (could be an Austin Charles Brown).

Difficult to trace them on the various Census but Joseph Austin Brown does appear on the 1911 Census as a Managing Director, aged 35 , living at Armedale, Lucknow Avenue with wife of 6 years , Beatrice aged 28 and daughter Nora Kathleen aged 2 . All born Nottingham .

There is a marriage in 1905 of a Joseph Brown to a Beatrice Kirk .

List of the mourners at his funeral .

The Angelanetta name (think it should be Angelinetta) is interesting as it features in another mention , in the will of a Jane Wood , where he is a joint executors with J.A.Brown .

Here is the will of Jane Wood from 1924 , giving J.A.Brown as executor along with Rocco Angelinetta .

Rocco is quoted as a looking glass manufacturer and looking at the address must have been very successful .