King of the French pub - Nottingham.

[piggy and babs 544]

DOES ANYBODY KNOW ANY THING ABOUT THIS PUB.  THINK IT COULD HAVE BEEN IN THE LACE MARKET OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AGO.    PIGGYS FISHING CLUB IS BELIVED TO BE THE OLDEST IN NOTTINGHAM ALTHOUGH ONLY 3 MEMBERS STILL KEEPING THE NAME GOING NOW 106 YEARS OLD AND FIRST MET IN THIS PUB BUT NO ONE SURE EXACTLY WERE IT WAS.

 

ARTHUR DRAYCOT THE OLDEST MEMBER,  PIGGY BEING THE YOUNGEST AT 65, ARTHUR JOINED THE CLUB IN 1945 AFTER COMMING OUT OF THE ARMY.  HIS FATHER WAS A MEMBER FOR SOME YEARS BEFOR THAT BUT EVEN HE DOSE NOT REMEMBER THIS PUB.... ONLY THE THREE TONS ANOTHER PLACE THEY USED TO MEET YEARS AGO.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Babs , I have never heard of that pub but there are a few mentions in the Newspaper archive . This mentions it was on Woolpack Lane ,

The earliest mention seems to be in the 1840s but there is a mention of it being Headquarters of the Notts Angling Ass.in the 1940s .

See the results here , unfortunately you have to pay to see the full articles

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/newspapers/results?recordCount=-1&firstName=&lastName=woolpack&fromYear=&toYear=&county=ALL&keywords=king+of+french

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Yes it was on Woolpack Lane according to my Wright's Directory of 1868

Landlord William Langham.

It was a beer only pub.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

The only google mentions of this pub are from when Babs has mentioned it here on Nottstalgia , to do with the fishing club ........ seems unusual for a town pub .

Wonder if it was any of these buildings on Woolpack Lane ? The building with the gable end showing looks a bit "pubby"

Also wonder if it got its name from when Rev. Lee took his framework knitting machine to France and got the permission of the King Of France to manufacture there ? Or perhaps it was after some battle or other ?

There is a comprehensive piece here about Lee and his machine in the "notes" under this photo .

http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;NTGM000351&pos=22&action=zoom&id=51796

.... However Queen Elizabeth 1 and her advisers were not impressed. The Court was concerned that hand knitters would be thrown out of work and add to the growing destitution and vagrancy, which eventually led to the harsh 43rd Elizabeth, Poor Law Act in 1601. The Royal Patent was not given. Without Royal favour and approval it looked as though the venture was at an end. William Lee was made of sterner stuff and, together with his brother, packed up and went to France where they gained favour and support of the the French king. In France they continued to develop and improve the Knitting Frame.

[Cliff Ton 10,458]

You can't see it very clearly here, but on the original there is an indication of P.H. (Public House) at this location. It's the only PH along the road in the late 19th century so I'll guess it's the King of the French..

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

According to my directory The King of the French was in the King Street/Place part of Woolpack Lane.

The King George on Horseback was close by.

[mick2me 3,033]

I wonder why it was called 'King of the French' instead of the kings name?

[Cliff Ton 10,458]

According to my directory The King of the French was in the King Street/Place part of Woolpack Lane.

In that case, I'll go for this one. Another PH which fits your location.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Well ....looking on the various census indexes its all a bit confusing !

In the 1911 census , King of the French is listed as number 58 Woolpack Lane , the next building is no 64 listed as Jolly Brick Maker

Can't see it on the 1901 census but there is a Kings Arms listed as no 26 Woolpack Lane

On the 1891 census the Jolly Brickmaker is listed as no 74 Woolpack Lane and the King Of The French is listed as no 62 ?

Can't see it listed on earlier census .

Fairly consistant is the Woolpack Tavern usually down as number 17 Woolpack Lane

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Some of the owners of "Beer Houses" carried on other trades on the same premises.

I have a Drakes directory dated 1860 & there were then as many "Beer Houses" as Public houses.

Some "Beer Houses" were no more than private houses.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Just been looking at my Kelly's directories.

The King of the French is listed as at 58 Woolpack Lane.

The landlord's name in 1916,1925,1928 & 1932 was a Joseph Cooper.

In 1941 it was a Alfred Jackson.

My next directory is dated 1967 and is not listed there(long gone ?)

Also listed at being at the same address in 1932 was " The Amalgamated Society of Woodworkers"(Nottingham Number 1 district)

[piggy and babs 544]

mick it could have been part of the original french quarterhence king of the french .thanks everone for your help piggy just washing the pots and is then going to have a look at this thread he isof fishing tommorow with arthur.

[mick2me 3,033]

Thanks Babs

I had forgotten the French Quarter.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Looking again at newspaper reports this seems to say that King Of the French was on the corner of Woolpack Lane and "King Street " so whether King Street and King George St are one and the same ???

Again I can't access the whole article but following indicates that the pub may have extended in 1881 and taken in some adjoining cottages. This may explain the difference in numbering on the later census'.

?.........of the French " beerhouse, situate at the corner of Woolpack-lane and King-street ; and also two dwelling-houses, numbered 58 aad 60, Woolpack-lane, and two cottages in the yard behind them .The property, which has a frontage ot fifty-two feet to Woolpack-lane. Nottinghamshire GuardianEast Midlands, England14/10/1881

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Looking again at newspaper reports this seems to say that King Of the French was on the corner of Woolpack Lane and "King Street " so whether King Street and King George St are one and the same ???

I think King Street may have been renamed when the King Street off "Slab Square" was built in the 1890s

There was also a Market Street off Weekday Cross.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

I think King Street may have been renamed when the King Street off "Slab Square" was built in the 1890s

There was also a Market Street off Weekday Cross.

You are right . Wonder which George it was named after ?

Anyway , with this info , I typed in King Street in the 1881 Census (which fortunately is free to view) and the enumerator listed it as being the last of the properties on King Street ( i.e. 13 King Street ) rather than on Woolpack Lane .

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Could have been George I as the first King of the House of Hanover.

George III & IV were not "very well liked" (despised) by the general public

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

I have a large scale map(1/500) of the area(dated 1881) around Woolpack Lane & all the public houses are clearly shown(by name) including (The) King George on Horseback.

But the King of the French is NOT shown, one must assume then that beer houses are not indicated on these maps.

Around the time these maps were produced there were over 200 "beer houses" in Nottingham.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

I've also seen mention of a Masons Arms on Woolpack Lane , maybe that became the Jolly Brickmaker ?

In one newspaper report the King of the French was described as Langhams , presumably after that John Langham seen in the 1881 census. He was described as a "maltster" in the report.

It must have been in the Langham family for a number of years as Bubblewrap mentions a William Langham in the 1868 directory above .

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Listed in 1868 also on Woolpack Lane

Number 17 Woolpack Tavern (Beer House)

26 Kings Arms

74 Bricklayers Arms (Beer House)

[notty ash 370]

The term 'King of the French' is fairly specific in official terms

Used by Louis XVI from 1791 to 1792, and by Louis-Philippe of France from 1830 until 1848.

I suggest the second is the most likely - known as the Citizen King - and the last truly royal monarch of France.

Other monarchs specifically used the term King of France or other titles

[Trevor S 2,003]

On the question of pubs on and around Woolpack Lane; I spoke to Aunt Jean last night who lived at 22 Woolpack Lane as a child in the late 20s-early 30s.

Her response to the subject:-

"There was a pub on every corner back then, pubs everywhere - some houses' front rooms were pubs."

"Names of the pubs? Can't remember any names now but definitely heaps of pubs or beer-offs in and around Woolpack Lane. They were for all the workers around there in the Lace Market."

What do you have listed at 22 Woolpack Lane, Bubblewrap? Be interesting if you had some reference to my mother's side of the family - Reaville.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

In 1868 22 Woolpack Lane was listed as the address of Ordoyno & Oxspring "lacedressers"

1916 Mrs Elizabeth Rennie Newsagent

1925 Edgar Trueman Wood Turner.

1928 Isaac Jones Shopkeeper

1932 Ordoyno & co Lacedressers

My 1942 directory gives nothing for number 22...... But it could have become a private residence by then

Ordonyo & Oxspring are alo listed in my "Drake's" directory of 1860 as being on Woolpack Lane but no street number is indicated.

[Trevor S 2,003]

Thanks Bubblewrap, I will ask my Aunt during what years they were there and who owned the place.

What does your directories show for 7 The Hermitage cos that where they moved to after Woolpack Lane.

Thanks.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Thanks Bubblewrap, I will ask my Aunt during what years they were there and who owned the place.

What does your directories show for 7 The Hermitage cos that where they moved to after Woolpack Lane.

Thanks.

The Hermitage ......Where?.................I can't find any such street in any of my directories..............or on any my modern(ish) street maps