Merthyr Imp 729 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 As a keen student of history it always puzzled me how the electorate rejected Churchill in 1945 for Clement Attlee, but I've asked people who were there at the time (including my Dad - who fought in the war) and it transpires that it was anger with the government, not with the leader. In the series 'Churchill: Into the Wilderness' that was repeated on BBC2 in the afternoons last week, and which I think someone mentioned in an earlier posting, it made the point that what people would really have liked in 1945 was a Labour government - but still with Churchill as prime minister! Of course that couldn't happen. By the way - to be strictly accurate, Attlee was voted back for a second term in early 1950, but with a tiny majority, resulting in another election in October 1951 when Churchill was returned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barclaycon 569 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yeah. Like I said, he was voted back into power in 1951. Something that Channel 4 neglected to mention ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 More people voted Labour in 1951 than in 1945. And more people voted Labour than Conservitave in 1951 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Seems the harder you treat your surfs ,the more praise they put upon you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robbie 39 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 #75 Sorry but another one of my spelling mistakes, it should read war and not wall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Prescriptions,car parks,dentists ,utilities ,doctors,pensions ,insurances,fuel,banks,the great british rip off ,and we still idolise politicians ,what do they have do before we say enough is enough,the mind boggles,or are these another set of penalties that historians Will show were to our benefit ,surely people will not praise cameron. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Winston Churchill only "won" the 1951 election he took over the war time government in 1940 unelected. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tony1 118 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Winston Churchill only "won" the 1951 election he took over the war time government in 1940 unelected. ..and thank goodness he did ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilbraborn 1,594 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Re#74. Now they just expect them to SMOKE grass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 And it's a damn sight better than eating it. ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 We ain't under Nazi rule. Surely that's all that matters ? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Booth 7,364 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 It seems to me that supporters of the Conservative Party support Sir Winston Churchill whereas the Labour Party supporters are quite derogatory towards him. Personally, I'll support any Party that has the interests of the UK before Party politics. I believe that Sir Winston Churchill was a great and inspirational leader to the British forces and British people during the war years and it wouldn't have mattered to me if he'd been a LibLabCon or a member of the Monster Raving Loony Party. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robbie 39 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Without doubt Churchill was a great soldier who led from the front but as a politician he did makes mistakes, like all other politicians throughout history. But as the old saying goes, any man who has never made a mistake has never done anything. We must not forget it was Churchill who lifted the national morale during the WW11 with continual gratitude throughout shown by the British public, cynics amongst us may say it was misplaced loyalty but I am not so sure. I cannot think of any other politician around at the time who could have done what he did. Unfortunately, as with all wars there are not just human casualties. The war of 1939-45 did bankrupt Britain with diminished independence matters of foreign policy and the start of the decline of the British Empire. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Labour /Tory they were and are politicians with one thing in mind ,themselves ,when people stop believing the crap they spout,is the day thigs will change for the better,good leaders what a load of tosh,what did our people have on returning home from war,and what did churchill and his cronies have ,dont read books open your eyes,ots called reality . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robbie 39 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Michael, He did float between being a Liberal and Conservative 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Nothing changes some soldiers return home now and are treat with contempt used and abused by so called great politicians,they all line their own pockets and couldent give one hoot about people giving their lives in forign lands .wake up to reality its not a game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robbie 39 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Andy, #89 Unfortunately in a civilized society somebody has to lead whether they talk 'crap' or not and without such people there would be total anarchy. I think I would prefer to listen to the 'crap' 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Of course you have to leaders,but when them leaders deprive a island nation of defences and send men ill prepared,then and now, dont tell me ,they are great leaders ,when the fact every generation has had a war should give those clever leaders a clue that conflict is inevitable ,so why would any politician not make britains defences a priority then and now.We have some of the best forces in the world lets give them the equipment they deserve,and the bungling politicians a clear message they are not great,their fame comes off the backs of a proffessional fighting force that keeps covering for their stupidity,look at things in reality . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StephenFord 866 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Don't forget that the 1945 election result was a surprise to many people - certainly to both Churchill and Attlee. Fortunately it was such a decisive result that there was no room for bickering, argument, and "we wuz robbed" recriminations. From one point of view, it was unfair. But the fact is that it rescued Churchill's reputation permanently, first because many people who actually wanted a complete change still sympathised with him, and thought it was a shabby reward for his leadership during the war; second, because he was spared the humiliation of proving by experience that he was not all that good as a peacetime Prime Minister. In the emergency of WWII, Churchill's great advantage was running an all party coalition - more or less choosing men for their ability to do the job, irrespective of whether they were even MPs at the time - and also, of course, irrespective of which party they supported. Attlee was a brilliant and totally loyal sidekick (despite the political difference), and the choice of the (communism-hating) trade union bruiser Ernie Bevin as Minister of Labour was pure genius. However, it seems to me that coalitions are the right thing for wartime, but never really work when they are just cobbled together in the aftermath of an indecisive election result - i.e. the current situation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Its like reading a book. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
firbeck 859 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I've not come across this topic before, it's quite fascinating. My suggestion on Churchill, read Lord Alan Brooke's War Diaries, each entry written on the day it happened, from just before the start of the war in 1940, onward, to the end. It is a fascinating insight into Churchill from the Commander in Chief of Britain's Armed Forces, his frustrations, despair, hatred, yet deep love for the man. Apparently when Alan Brooke tried to publish his diaries after the war, he received all sorts of libel writs against him, after all he was daily criticizing and commenting about the most powerful people in the so called 'Free World' at the time, including Churchill, Roosevelt, Stalin, Eisenhower, Montgomery, etc, etc.He wasn't able to publish his diaries in full until 2001, they make incredible reading. If anybody won the war it was Field Marshall Alan Brooke himself, he alone seemed to be the only person to scupper some of Churchill's outrageous schemes which could have led the UK to disaster. Incidentally, I found Jeremy Paxman's programme on Churchill's funeral a good watch, one sad topic came to light and facts not mentioned about it. The plans for Churchill's funeral were hatched in detail years before the event, this went for the Battle of Britain loco 'Winston Churchill'. In expectation of the inevitable, the locomotive was withdrawn from service a while before Churchill's death and given a full overhaul and repaint, it was then stored out of use by BR at Eastleigh. When the great day dawned, the loco was used just once for that trip then stored for posterity at the old Brighton Loco Works. It ended up at the NRM in York, resplendent in it's original paintwork. It then some how ended up in the repair shop there where I last saw it, the paintwork ensured it was the last BR steam locomotive to be wearing it's original colour scheme applied in 1963/64, everything else has subsequently been repainted, they may look right but certainly not carrying original paintwork. I was horrified to see that the loco is currently being overhauled at the Bluebell Railway, all the original paint appeared to be being stripped off. This does not conform to aviation codes of practice where, for instance, the aircraft at the Fleet Air Arm Museum in Yeovilton are being carefully conserved by having all their subsequent paint layers stripped off to reveal their ORIGINAL war time paintwork. Sad, all the times I saw it, WC may have looked a bit tatty around the edges, but it wasn't so bad, it made it look like a true working BR locomotive, it should have been left to stay that way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
... 1,411 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Are people just programmed to admire mediocrity,will Ant and Dec be the subject of discussion by future nostalgians,or perhaps the great british public might decide they have political talent and elect them into office at the expense of sooty and sweep,I am sure our history writers would even find a way to glamorise that to . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robbie 39 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 #95 Books are the fount of knowledge. Like women without them where would we be? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StephenFord 866 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well, I certainly won't be joining in a discussion on Ant and Dec (oops - I just have!) - but having said that, they are probably funnier than the present comedians running the country. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Booth 7,364 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Robbie (#98) , starving and living in a tip.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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