Winston Churchill


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There is an email `doing the rounds at present. Thought I might share it with you to get your thoughts.

Dear All, Following my `round robin' about Churchill, I received this reply from one of our year and in the interests of fairness thought I would share it with you. Stan

Subject: Re: Winston Churchill .

Hi Stan,

I have to reply to this one.

Ever since my 2 year assignment to Saudi Arabia in 1970-72 I have had a confused respect for the majority of the Muslims I encountered. I actually liked them.

Those I met and worked with were thoroughly decent people and we got along well. The ordinary folk by and large tolerated our western drinking habits (even though illegal), and only the religious police were aggressive about female dress codes.

I learned that Saudis were Sunni and Iranians were Shi'ite (and considered enemies of the State).

My wife and I made friends with a young Saudi couple from obviously wealthy families. Hussein was educated at Charterhouse and Edinburgh University and was only committed to Islam because of family loyalties. His wife was similar.

This is of course probably true of most of the 'better off' newer generations but there are still many who adhere to the old ways and fundamentalism, eg Osama bin Laden, who was also educated in the UK.

By and large Muslims are very respectful of 'westerners' and some over indulge in our way of life. But some resent us.

I think that Winston Churchill's perceptions of the effects of Islam are brilliantly expressed and quite accurate. It can be suppressive and can lead to indolence and this suits many of the ruling classes.

However many wish to break away from the old ways and so we have revolutions for change, which inevitably will lead to the West being accused of interference by different factions.

The main perpetrators of violence are the religious extremists but I think that eventually the peaceful majority, will win the day. To the average westerner it is all very confusing. It is also very dangerous for the decent majority of Muslims..

I'm still not sure why Sunnis and Shi'ites don't get along better. It could be a consequence of past bloodshed and insecurity.

And of course American foreign policy hasn't helped and we Brits, Aussies, Canadians and our allies should have a much more moderating effect.

We should be telling our western Muslims how we are trying to support moderate Islam against extremists who would subjugate us all.

Nice to talk,

cheers

What foresight !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Winston Churchill 1899.

"Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world."

This is amazing. Even more amazing is that this hasn't been published long before now.

CHURCHILL ON ISLAM

Unbelievable, but the speech below was written in 1899... (check Wikipedia - The River War).

The attached short speech from Winston Churchill, was delivered by him in 1899 when he was a young soldier and journalist. It probably sets out the current views of many, but expresses in the wonderful Churchillian turn of phrase and use of the English language, of which he was a past master. Sir Winston Churchill was, without doubt, one of the greatest men of the late 19th and 20th centuries.

He was a brave young soldier, a brilliant journalist, an extraordinary politician and statesman, a great war leader and British Prime Minister, to whom the Western world must be forever in his debt. He was a prophet in his own time. He died on 24th January 1965, at the grand old age of 90 and, after a lifetime of service to his country, was accorded a State funeral.

HERE IS THE SPEECH:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome ..."

Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol II, pages 248-250 London).

Churchill saw it coming......

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I watched a report on Channel 4 News this evening on the anniversary of Churchill's death. I've never seen anything so disrespectful, biased and defametory. It sought to portray him in the worst poss

Been watching a series of programmes on Sir Winston Churchill this week, as it's the 50th anniversary of his death. What a great inspiration, and a great leader. His determination to win was unbelie

It seems to me that supporters of the Conservative Party support Sir Winston Churchill whereas the Labour Party supporters are quite derogatory towards him. Personally, I'll support any Party that has

Only Lieutenant Churchill in 1899 Red,but you will note his correct title was noted later. Wonder why he never went to the Lords.

I may have got this wrong, but I seem to remember hearing or reading that he was actually offered a dukedom after the war but turned it down.

My guess is that he preferred to remain an MP rather than go to the House of Lords (at whatever rank).

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Hello Stan from Dave,

Wonderful insight Mr. Churchill had, he was no dope, and Americians had a great deal of respect for the man - they called "Black Dog".

I was reading a book called, "Life As Sutch" by Screaming Lord Sutch" - and old David Sutch was giving his memories of old Winston, when David was a youngster looking up at the great man himself - David said the thing he remembered the most about Sir Winston, was when he put his cigar out on my arm. (with a grain of salt if you please).

Roy Harper wrote the best song ever, called "The Black Cloud Of Islam" from his album called "Once" - you can google the lyrics if you like, it says it all for me. The whole Islam affair reminds me of the song by Sly and The Family Stone - "Everyday People".

As for me personally, people are people where ever you go, I take them as I find them and treat them accordingly......I never judge a book by the cover, it's a waste of time....I just want the truth that hides inside the person, and then go from there. And if you'll excuse me for this, for Christ sake look at the background and entire setting on your national newscast.....dust, rocks, dirt, sitting on the floor, throwing stones, yelling and screaming.....about injustace - but this is what we want, they say - God Willing - drop to your knees and repent if you please how many times a day did you say? In my truth, I'm indifferent out of my own ignorance.......different strokes for different folks. Too many names and situations to remember. It's 2013 and all this misunderstanding and hate is still unresolved......I don't get it at all.

I do know this for a fact though - don't trust the American Government - it's rotten to the core, and as Mr. Hitler said, they will destroy themselves from the inside out - without anybody's help....and you see it happening everyday.

I hope I didn't stray too far off topic Stan.

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Been watching a series of programmes on Sir Winston Churchill this week, as it's the 50th anniversary of his death.

What a great inspiration, and a great leader. His determination to win was unbelievable.

Who on this earth cannot be inspired by his speeches and quotes. I for one would have followed him to the ends of the earth.

Anybody not so inspired, put your hand on your heart. I bet there's nothing there !!!

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Many old miners from many mining areas still remember "I'll see the miners eat grass before I give in"

As an ex mine worker, I have little to no time for the man or his memory. Remember, the 1926 strike was over cutting wages and increasing work hours to an already impoverished part of the working class people.

Back then a face worker, worked extremely hard, the hewer would spend his day, usually 10-12 hours on his side undercutting the face with a pick. He and the others only got paid for lumps, not slack, and had to load coal with a large fork, not a shovel.

Result of a life time of hewing, was deformed fingers and hands, black scars, bad knees and a twisted back, not to mention pneumonicosis.

Churchill was no friend of the working classes, in fact he looked down his nose at us.

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The miners wouldn't have fared any better under Hitler believe me.

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TBH, I don't think Churchill was the only man who could have done the war time PM job, I'm sure there were others just as capable and just as ruthless, but then reading that most of the time, he was drunk, and others took the responsibility to work out problems while he slept his booze off..

He was lucky to be alive anyway, he had a bounty on his head "Dead or Alive" in SA, put on by the Boers, in the 1800's, and was even captured by them, just their stupidy that he managed to escape.

Harald Wilson could well have done a reasonable job, but he wasn't picked, because he was too young, and the people might not have respected a young leader. Saying that, I'll be there were several who would have led Britain to victory as well, if not better than Churchill.

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As Conservative Prime Minister during the war years (1940-45) you cannot take away the fact along with our Allies we defeated the Nazi war machine. And it's a good job we did too.

But he was defeated in the 1945 General Election by Attlee, (Labour), where was the faith and support for him by the British voting public then?

I think after the war and all the problems that ensued there was a massive divide in social classes or are we just a fickle nation?

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Bubblewrap #12

No complaints by admin at the moment because the recent postings have been quite passive. Now the posting are mixed and conflicts over Churchill's popularity is in question I would imagine it will get quite heated, then admin will have to act.

There's no point in shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.......one day admin will realise this.

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I think this more about a man in history than politics, the political posts that cause trouble, are those pertaining to the present day political climate.

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Cometh the hour, cometh the man'. Whatever political feelings and past events, he was the man for the job at the time. After reading #1 I am again amazed at these man built castles of religion which face each other across a sort of 'no man's land' of belief. Religion, no matter what, is divisive and I have no faith in it myself. For our own sakes, we should just live in peace and harmony but different banners dictate this cannot be so.

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There is no disputing that Churchill had his flaws, some of which he was happy to admit. There were also times during his career where his actions did him no credit.

But there is little doubt that his leadership of the country during the war years and his inspiration of the British public showed what a truly remarkable figure he was. It seems entirely right and proper that we should recognise his great achievements on this anniversary.

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TBH, I'm of no political persuasion at all, I gave up which side is which when I finally shed the blinkers, all are tarred with the same brush and are puppets with their strings pulled by the same "back room boys" The "Banksters"

Who said it now, I think it was Thomas Jefferson, he who controls a countries monetary system, rules the country, or wiser words to that effect.

And I think over the last few years, we have all seen how that applies in todays world. Banks being bailed out, Banksters being paid huge bonuses, banks increasing charges to their "clients" I use clients and charges verrrrryyyy loosely, should really be fleecing the "sheeples".

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#21

This was posted as a "Joke" BUT think about it :)

A banker, a tabloid reader and an immigrant are sitting at the same table.

There are also ten slices of cake on the table.

The banker takes nine slices and tells the tabloid reader,

"Watch that immigrant, he's after your cake."

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Harald Wilson could well have done a reasonable job, but he wasn't picked, because he was too young, and the people might not have respected a young leader. Saying that, I'll be there were several who would have led Britain to victory as well, if not better than Churchill.

Are you referring to Harold Wilson? If so, I think the 23 year old Harold might have had a bit of a job on his hands. He didn't even enter Parliament until the end of the war. Who were the others who could have done better and where were they?

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Stafford Cripps or Herbert Morrison or Ernest Bevin?

Harold Wilson's claim to fame ?

The youngest cabinet minister ever.

President of the Board of Trade in 1947 I think Harold was 31 at the time.

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