Vitriolic attack

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Nowadays when you hear the phrase a "vitriolic attack" or a vitriolic comment it generally means its an angry , spiteful or hurtful verbal assault .

However the origins of "vitriol" are somewhat different .

Last week on another message board a lady was trying to find some info about a great uncle from Nottingham . She had searched the 1911 census info and couldn't locate him .

I did my usual searching the newspaper archives and found that he had been involved in "vitriol throwing" (hydrochloric acid) over his ex-girlfriend some 7 years later in 1918 (and got 20 years) and what with other possible links to various earlier crimes , suggested that it might be as well to search the inmates of the jail in 1911 , which turned out to be true....she found him in the clink in 1911 .

A few surprising things though . Throwing vitriol was a very common crime in the late 1800 / early 1900s and there are numerous reports of the crime , often by jealous lovers .

Amazing how easy it must have been to get hold of a bottle of acid . Also surprising that the girlfriends occupation was described as a "shunter" on the railway in the 1920s !

Some details here :

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1631669

There was another case in which a 60 year old threw vitriol over his son

THREW VITRIOL OVER HIS SON. NINE MONTHS FOR NOTTM. MAN. William Hodgkinson, 60, labourer, 92 Flewitt St.Nottingham, was much affected

indicted at the Notts. Assizes to-day for throwing vitriol at his son. John Thomas Hodgkinson, 92 Flewitt St on November 11th, 1923,

with intent, at the Guildhall subsequently, the Commissioner was accompanied the Mayor (Ald. J. Houston) and the Sheriff (Mr. A. Judd).

Sir William was by the High Sheriff the county, that the vitriol had not caused any permanent injury,

and he would accept the plea of guilty on the second charge. The Commissioner agreed that were circumstances which justified this course.

For the defence, Mr. M. Healy (instructed Messrs. H. B. Clayton,.....

There was very little doubt that the father, at the hands of his son, received an extremely bad beating. He was found to be

(suffering) from broken rib and bruises all over body. It was dreadful thing that a man should go out and purchase corrosive fluid, the throwing of vitriol most cases terrible offence.

The Commissioner declared that ordinarily the punishment for these offences was a

long term of imprisonment. Having regard to prisoner's age, his previous good character, his periods of war service......

Nottingham Evening Post

East Midlands, England

13/02/1924

[ChrisB 150]

But what exactly was it?

It may have been hydrochloric acid but it must have had some commercial use because it was widely advertised on enamel signs all over the place.

Was it some sort of cleaning product?

I believe the Vitriol works were somewhere north of Manchester.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Despite what the newspaper said it seems that oil of vitriol was really sulphuric acid and there were factories making the stuff all over the country .

From the wiki it was / is used in all sorts of products .

About 20% is used in chemical industry for production of detergents, synthetic resins, dyestuffs, pharmaceuticals, petroleum catalysts, insecticides and antifreeze, as well as in various processes such as oil well acidicizing, aluminium reduction, paper sizing, water treatment. About 6% of uses are related to pigments and include paints, enamels, printing inks, coated fabrics and paper, and the rest is dispersed into a multitude of applications such as production of explosives, cellophane, acetate and viscose textiles, lubricants, non-ferrous metals and batteries.^[24]

[alisoncc 379]

As a youngster I was given a chemistry set one Christmas. When I think back to the raw chemicals provided in the set I shudder. There were some seriously dangerous things in it. And in the 1950's in Nottingham, our local chemist would happily provide a youngster with a whole range chemicals as long as his pocket money could pay for it. With a friend we experimented at making gun powder, and it worked. I think we used things like potassium permanganate, sulphur, ammonium nitrate, hydrogen peroxide, carbon, etc. and strips of magnesium for detonators. All were included in the chemistry set provided by my parents as a Christmas present no less.

You could buy sulphuric acid, nitric acid and hydrocholoric acid from the chemist with no questions asked. I remember looking up the "recipe" for TNT in an encyclopedia at the library. We were going to happily have ago at making some. No 'elf and sefty then. It's worth noting the above acids were sold in a concentrated form, not some wishy washy heavily diluted variety. Burnt a hole in my school shoes when I spilt some sulphuric acid.

[Commo 1,292]

As I have mentioned on another thread, as a child I confused Virol, a malt extract which was advertised widely on metal signs ( one in the pedestrian walkway over Vic Station ) with Vitriol, but luckily was never given the wrong one to swallow.

Re #2, have you perhaps remembered one for the other?

[LizzieM 9,504]

It seems that us 40's and 50's kids were ALL given a big spoonful of Virol every day, to build us up

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

One of the biggest uses of hydrochloric acid is in chlorine type of bleaches, nitric and sulphuric acid are 95% towards making a very dangerous explosive, add some glycerine, all in the right quantities and boom while you're mixing it, very very unstable..(nitro-glycerine)

[BulwellBrian 107]

The school chemistry labs had all three strong acids on the benches for students to use, and no vizors or goggles or even lab coats. This was in the 1950's.

When I worked in the NCB labs we also used Hydroflouric Acid, nasty stuff it etches glass, we did use gloves then and had lab coats..

On day release at the Tech we did try to make TNT (Trinitro-Toluene) not easy in a lab we didn't succeed.

Oh what fun we had. I feel sorry for today's children so mollycoddled.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

When I worked at Wilson Fords, there was an open jar of concentrated nitric acid at all times at the top of the old workshop on a bench near a sink... It was used to strip and clean enameled copper wire... I doubt S&H would approve these days...It wasn't even marked as corrosive!!!

[FLY2 10,108]

We made our fireworks out of Standard bangers,potassium chlorate , which you could get over the counter from chemists, sugar, sulphur, iron filings and bits of firefighters. I made a small cannon from Meccano, the barrel being the aluminium tube from a bike pump and towed it behind my bike onto Robert Shaw Playing Fields. We lit the fuse then scarpered. There was a large boom, a gigantic white mushroom cloud and the remnants of the tube made an indentation in the kerb about fifty feet away.

We need a stronger barrel I thought. Next was a steel saddle support tube from said bike. This was filled with the mixture and packed with pebbles. Large bang and the tube took off . When it landed, we noticed it was turned inside out like a banana skin.

Tine to cease before there is a serious injury. We never attempted a third time.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

When I was at J Jones, the old workshop on Daleside Road had these large wood doors. Couple of the lads were into shooting, and had turned a short gun barrel, to test it, it was clamped into a vice, small amount of black powder was rammed into the barrel and a ball bearing was shoved in last, I forget now the method of igniting the powder, been many years now, but I think it was percussion caps and a hammer....

Made a loud noise, and it wasn't until work was over and we closed the big wood doors behind us that we all noticed the after effects...Huge slithers of wood hanging down where the ball bearings had done their work... Frank, the Foreman never did discover how the doors had got so much exterior damage...LOL

[FLY2 10,108]

All good fun till someone gets hurt, then it's hilarious.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

That was over 40 years ago when Daleside Road was empty of traffic.

[Cliff Ton 10,449]

And while we're doing things which are similar to Vitriol and begin with a 'V', I'm not old enough to remember Vimaltol.

[ChrisB 150]

As I have mentioned on another thread, as a child I confused Virol, a malt extract which was advertised widely on metal signs ( one in the pedestrian walkway over Vic Station ) with Vitriol, but luckily was never given the wrong one to swallow.

Re #2, have you perhaps remembered one for the other?

Yes, I think I have!

[StephenFord 866]

And now we have the phrase which future generations of Nottstalgians will put on the thread "Things our parents used to say" - "Going virol !"

[littlebro 234]

Johnny was a chemist's son, but Johnny is no more. What Johnny thought was H2O, was H2SO4.

[bamber 128]

It's amazing just how much more regulated our lives are nowadays compared with not-so-long-ago.

After WW1 there were no gun laws in the UK. Lots of people owned a pistol for personal protection. In fact although police officers were officially unarmed it was quite common practice for detectives to carry their personally owned weapon.

Sames goes for (ahem) drugs. Fortnum and Mason's hampers, going to soldiers at the front, would frequently contain an ounce of cocaine as a pick-me-up.

I'm waiting for the day when I can't step out my front door without wearing head to toe high-viz and conducting a full risk assessment before going to the loo.

[alisoncc 379]

After WW1 there were no gun laws in the UK.

My Dad worked for the railways, and when I was only 14 ish he organised for me to use their rifle range. It was located in the basement of one of the office buildlings in the Wilford Road shunting yards. He took me along and introduced me to the guy in charge of the range. In due course I would go along as and when it suited me. The guy would give me the key and sell me twenty to thirty rounds of .22 ammunition. I would then go downstairs, unlock the range, get a rifle out of a cupboard, stick up a target and bang away. These weren't pellet air rifles, they were .22 rifles that took proper bullets.

Nobody kept track of how much ammo I used, there was no one else around and I could have easily left with a rifle - leaving it outside the door when I returned the key. Nowadays you need a licence just to get a pop gun.

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

_{Not only that Alison cc, When I worked on the railway there were track detonators in little cupboards by the trackside all over the system. These were fog signals which were put on the track near a red signal in foggy weather before we had automatic signaling. When a train went over them they made a loud bang. One meant caution and three meant stop. Most of the cupboards were locked but some weren't and kids used to break in and steal them to put on bonfires. Now they are only kept in trains in case of a derailment.}

[alisoncc 379]

Thought I would resurrect this thread because some thoughts have come to mind that relate. Have distinct memories of us fumigating our house with straight sulphur. My Dad would put a heaped tablespoon of yellow sulphur on a tin lid, place the lid on top of a saucer and then light the sulphur having made sure that we were all out of the house. He would do this in a few different places around the house, before exiting himself.

The sulphure dioxide given off was more than sufficient to kill off all sorts of bugs, particularly bed bugs, which were prevalent. Mind you the house itself used to smell for weeks after. It did seem to work, the fumigation that is.