Bilbraborn 1,594 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 The existing clock tower should give an idea what colour the basic brickwork was. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
briyeo 56 Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 The internal buildings used different materials, they were buff coloured glazed bricks, I assume similar to what you see on the corridor walls of older hospital buildings. The exposed outer ends of the buildings would have been like the clock tower though I think. That's my next job by the way, the clock tower and booking hall etc. I have read that the tower is 100ft high, so without any other dimensions I will have to base everything on that. The clock may not be working though, I will have to look into that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilbraborn 1,594 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Have you tried Nottinghamshire archives. York railway museum might have some building info. There are a series of books called Victorian Nottingham and also some called Edwardian Nottingham. Authors Richard Iliffe and Wilf Bagguley. One of the books has a lot about Victoria Station with witness accounts. I have a book called 'The New Line to London of the Great Central Railway' by Michael J Soar. ISBN 0-9536526-0-2. In the chapter 'From Annesley to Nottingham' it gives a few dimensions of parts of Victoria Station. It is a book I obtained and had a browse through and then put aside to have a good read when I get more time. How silly of me. I seem to be busier than ever as I get older. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merthyr Imp 729 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 I've found a few measurements for you from various books - of course you may already have this information: The bay platforms were 400 feet long. Beyond the train shed, the platform awnings were 220 feet long The Union Road bridge (north end of the station) was 280 feet in length The main block of street level buildings on Milton Street were 250 feet wide, 100 feet of which was taken up by the awning to shelter 'arriving carriages'. The booking hall measured 104 feet (The above is from 'The Rise and Fall of Nottingham's Railway Network Volume 1' by Hayden J. Reed, published by Book Law Publications) The main buldings, facing Mansfield Road/Milton Street were 'some 250 feet' long (as opposed to wide - see above) The clock tower was 'over 100 feet' high The footbridge spanning the platforms was 'more than 20 feet' wide The island platforms were '1,250 to 1,270 feet' long' The extreme width at the centre of the station was 250 feet excluding the booking hall. The main roof was 450 feet long, with a centre span of 84 feet 3 inches, and a pair of flanking spans each of 63 feet 9 inches. The roof was supported on columns 42 feet 6 inches in height above the platforms The above is from 'Great Central Volume 3' by George Dow, first published by Ian Allan in 1965 The book I mentioned in a previous post - 'Railways in and Around Nottingham' - also gives the height of the clock tower as 'more than 100 feet'. It gives the width of the booking hall as 'some 66 feet', and says it was 'panelled in best quality pine to a height of about 11 feet, whilst some 20 feet or so above the...floor...a balcony ran across part of the length. The overall height was 35 feet. This book gives the length of the island platforms as 1,270 feet and 'the maximum width' as 68 feet. This book gives slightly different measurements to some of those given above: the main roof is said to be 420 feet long, and the awnings beyond it 224 feet long So - 'over 100 feet' for the height of the clock tower, but nothing here to say how much over! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
briyeo 56 Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Thanks for those details Merthyr Imp, we had some dimensions for the platforms and roof spans and found some variations on those too between sources. We decided to use this plan as the main resource for the layout. http://www.greatcentraltoday.com/images/HiRes%20Fowler%20Nott%201.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Baker 9 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Some great info here thanks everyone. As Brian said we went with the above plan in the end , if you zoom in it has a lot of measurements on it. We also used it to make the curved bay platforms by putting it into the modeling program as a template and making miniture platforms over the top of it then scaling them up to the sizes on the the plan. For the center platforms if you use the plan you will see it gives lengths for the whole platform and then the 2 bays. if you minus the bay lengths from it , it comes up around 462ft every time for the center platform and this is no matter what platform you do the sum on. So that's what we went with. I ended up going with 440ft for the canopy length so you have the gap between the end of the bays and the buildings. Also its nice to see that 84ft figure for the center canopy width. i trail and error this when making the canopy and ended up with 83ft so its nice to see we are doing something right I had 60 ft down for the outer canopy's so will add another 3ft to those and push the outer walls out a bit. We are never going to get it spot on but our aim is a reasonable representation of it. It has been done before in train simulator but never with this much attention to detail. And we have the advantage that we have both took to learning to 3d model just for this route which gives as a blank canvas I did a search of the national archives and there are some plans for Victoria at the Doncaster archives , Which makes sense as that is where the GNR was based. Unfortunately they are to big to send copies and the only way to get them is to go to Doncaster and take photo's . And they could very well be the plan we have been using ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scriv 168 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 I will have to look into that. Don't worry about it. Whatever time you set it at, it will be right twice a day! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merthyr Imp 729 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Came across this new book today - 'Forward to Nottingham Victoria' by Ken Grainger, published by Book Law: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Forward-Nottingham-Victoria-Scenes-Past/dp/1909625116/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381606344&sr=1-2&keywords=ken+grainger There are lots of good photos of Victoria, including several of the booking hall and of the platforms inside the station. It will be on my Christmas list (hint). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Baker 9 Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 That looks like another good book . Someone mentioned The Friargate Line by Mark Higginson . I picked this up a while Back. Its quite a rare book and cost me a small fortue but it covers the Derby end of things nicely . The main books we are using are these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Northern-Railway-East-Midlands/dp/090111586X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381685404&sr=8-1&keywords=the+great+northern+in+the+east+midlands They cover the route we are building in great detail and are very interesting and full of detail. Quite an eye opener too to how Nottingham used to be. I think there is a set of 3 in total. Not sure if there was a 4th as i have never seen it. I finaly finishe the outside canopy's today. And have added some muck and grime . Does it look better now ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poohbear 1,360 Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Where's the pigeons?... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Baker 9 Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Where's the pigeons?... Hummmmm good question! Wonder if i can model some pigeons that poop? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jackson 301 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hi Chris, regarding the outside canopy, you ask at #34: 'Does it look better now?' - Certainly does..................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
briyeo 56 Posted October 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 There are no pigeons in the simulator, but you can have crows instead This image answers the question of turntable power source, at least in later years. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigkris/6022559874/sizes/l/in/set-72157604574559562/ Great work on the canopy Chris. The North signal box has had the glaziers in to do some work. It still hasn't arrived at Nottingham though and seems to be in LMS territory. I have three men inside, how many would be needed to work this box? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merthyr Imp 729 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 The main books we are using are these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Northern-Railway-East-Midlands/dp/090111586X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381685404&sr=8-1&keywords=the+great+northern+in+the+east+midlands They cover the route we are building in great detail and are very interesting and full of detail. Quite an eye opener too to how Nottingham used to be. I think there is a set of 3 in total. Not sure if there was a 4th as i have never seen it. Yes, there are four books in the series - the one shown there plus the following: Vol 1 - Colwick Yards, Nottingham London Road, Gedling, Basford Vol 3 - The Erewash Valley Lines, Pinxton Branch, Awsworth to Ilkeston, the Heanor and Stanton Branches Vol 4 - Nottingham to Grantham, Bottesford to Newark, Melton Mowbray, the Leicester Line and Ironstone Branches Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Baker 9 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 The only one i don't have is Vol 4. Not that i need it for the route . but still would be nice to have the full set. Ive never seen it for sale though. Although i do keep thinking wouldn't it be nice to run the route Grantham, Maybe in the future. Regarding that turntable , there's a video on youtube somewhere showing a GWR Hall class that has derailed on it. It then shows them re railing with another loco. If that happened today they would shut the whole station down while health and safety investigate it lol . The Box looks great Brian:) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bilbraborn 1,594 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 They are probably the most comprehensive books about the GNR around Nottingham I have seen. Like you I have the first three. What a pity there are not similar books about other railways in the area. I was particularly interested in the chapter that dealt with the branch line to Babbington Colliery. A few years ago I was able to access the old embankment near Cinderhill Road. The foundations for the junction signal box were still there as was part of the sloping embankment of the single track branch line to the pit. I don't know what is left now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,458 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 The North signal box has had the glaziers in to do some work. It still hasn't arrived at Nottingham though and seems to be in LMS territory. I have three men inside, how many would be needed to work this box? According to the Forster and Taylor book "in pre-grouping days....north was worked by two GNR and one GCR grades assisted by a train register lad, and at the other end....the same arrangement in reverse (two GCR and one GNR and a register lad)" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scriv 168 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 This image answers the question of turntable power source, at least in later years. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigkris/6022559874/sizes/l/in/set-72157604574559562/ I'll bet any money the two lads pushing on the front buffer are not railwaymen! Front one seems to be in a decent suit and shoes, he'll have regretted doing that once he tries to get the grease off his paws! Probably the fireman pushing at the back end, he's got the right idea, you lean on the rail to turn the loco; if the driver's got it right it needs very little effort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scriv 168 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 There are no pigeons in the simulator, but you can have crows instead This image answers the question of turntable power source, at least in later years. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigkris/6022559874/sizes/l/in/set-72157604574559562/ I'll bet any money the two lads pushing on the front buffer are not railwaymen! Front one seems to be in a decent suit and shoes, he'll have regretted doing that once he tries to get the grease off his paws! Probably the fireman pushing at the back end, he's got the right idea, you lean on the rail to turn the loco; if the driver's got it right it needs very little effort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
briyeo 56 Posted October 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I think they could be passengers of a railtour helping to turn their own trains loco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Baker 9 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 They are probably the most comprehensive books about the GNR around Nottingham I have seen. Like you I have the first three. What a pity there are not similar books about other railways in the area. I was particularly interested in the chapter that dealt with the branch line to Babbington Colliery. A few years ago I was able to access the old embankment near Cinderhill Road. The foundations for the junction signal box were still there as was part of the sloping embankment of the single track branch line to the pit. I don't know what is left now. Im glad you have mentioned Babbington its remeinded me. We need a good photo of the GN signal box on the main line at Babbington . Not been able to find one so far only the distant shots in the GNR books. There's a good photo of the Midland box but not the GN one. If anyone could point me to a photo that would be great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Baker 9 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Here's the video of Hall coming off the south turntable i mentioned.Starts around 3:40 . Looks like the turntables where quite small at the Vic. There's no way they could of turned a big Paciffic Like a Brit or a Duchess there. The hall only just fits on . A bet this happend a lot. I wonder if the North Turntable was bigger than this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBvPRfkpS1A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scriv 168 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I think they could be passengers of a railtour helping to turn their own trains loco Yes, looks a bit like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Baker 9 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well the Footbridges are coming along now. In the mean time here's a little bit of atmosphere 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merthyr Imp 729 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 People will now ask what a former LMS 2P 4-4-0 is doing in Victoria Station! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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