The Damage to the sea wall at Dawlish

[firbeck 859]

How many of you have been there on holiday, sat on the beach and watched the trains go by.

The first time I went was 1962, a summer holiday train from Nottingham Midland, Black 5 4-6-0 to Bristol then a change of engines to a D7*** Hymek outside Bristol St Philips Marsh shed then on to Teignmouth.

Some of the 'Experts' on the BBC News channel made some interesting comments, one said that it had been noted a few years ago that the sea wall wasn't up to the job, surprise, surprise, as Brunel originally designed the line as a lightweight atmospheric railway in the first place, it wasn't going to be up to carrying heavy 20th century trains was it, couldn't anyone work that out, why wasn't something done about it years ago.

Then there was talk about reopening the line through Okehampton as an alternative, clearly forgetting about the new build houses and factory units on the track bed and the fragile state of Meldon Viaduct.

Another bloke this morning suggested rerouting the line inland, well, there used to be a shortcut from Newton Abbot to Exeter, it closed to passengers in 1958 but remained open as an alternative route into the 60's, until they built the A38 over it's trackbed.

OK, perhaps our climate change is becoming far more dramatic then anyone could have imagined, but I think that a situation like this has been looming for a while. Pity the poor sods whose houses look as if they are going to fall into the sea, tomorrow is going to be as bad again, without emergency work, the situation is going to get worse.

Back to happier times when the power along the sea wall between Teignmouth and Dawlish was on the track rather than below or against it;-

[FLY2 10,108]

My great aunt owned the Seacroft Hotel at Teignmouth in the 50's and as a kid I spent many happy holidays there spotting all fortnight.

[Bilboro-lad 294]

How anyone can deny climate change by now is beyond me, Worldwide the whole system is going crazy. One hundred year events are becoming 5 year events.

[FLY2 10,108]

That's great! I'm having sex next Tuesday !!!!!!!

[Bilboro-lad 294]

Can I watch?

[FLY2 10,108]

Cheeky bu66er!!!!!!

[Bilboro-lad 294]

I'll supply the popcorn.

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

I've forgot what it's like LOL.

Since it's a huge disaster happening in the west country with Somerset levels as well, which country will be the first to send aid. Don't hold yer breath!

[StephenFord 866]

Scotland maybe? Hahahahahahahahahaha................!

[Merthyr Imp 729]

there was talk about reopening the line through Okehampton as an alternative, clearly forgetting about the new build houses and factory units on the track bed and the fragile state of Meldon Viaduct.

It must be almost impossible to make the line through Dawlish completely weather and sea proof because of it being so close to the sea. But with the millions it will doubtless cost to repair, and the possibly increasing likelihood of recent weather conditions occurring again it does make you wonder whether they'll weigh up the cost of further millions of pounds repair work each time against a one-off cost of any necessary deviation work and repairs to the viaduct to reopen the Okehampton line throughout (it's only the middle bit that's not still in use).

There'd still a need for the Dawlish line for local services, so it could perhaps be singled, with most long distance services sent via Okehampton - although residents of Newton Abbot and Totnes might object . But there'd be no problem these days with trains having to reverse at Exeter, in fact it would be nice to think that traffic might increase to an extent that they could start sending expresses from Waterloo to Plymouth again!

Oh well, that's my solution anyway.

[Craig Strongman 13]

I was only there last year walking along the jetty into the sea where the pleasure boat moors.

[DAVIDW 1,683]

There was a map shown on our local news about an alternate route using some existing line , unfortunately can't find the map they showed on TV . There is this in the DM but the map is lacking in detail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2553025/Railway-lines-shut-50-years-ago-reopened-100million-plan-divert-trains-away-Dawlish-waves.html

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

I've forgot what it's like LOL.

Since it's a huge disaster happening in the west country with Somerset levels as well, which country will be the first to send aid. Don't hold yer breath!

I have heard that Libya & Sudan will take some of our water

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

Are you sure that they are not taking the p---

[firbeck 859]

There was a map shown on our local news about an alternate route using some existing line , unfortunately can't find the map they showed on TV . There is this in the DM but the map is lacking in detail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2553025/Railway-lines-shut-50-years-ago-reopened-100million-plan-divert-trains-away-Dawlish-waves.html

The Teign Valley line was the shortcut from Newton Abbot to Exeter, like I said, it was wiped off the face of the earth by the A38, a spur exists from Newton Abbot towards Bovey Tracey, finishing at a place called Eastfield, for timber traffic, but try and trace the rest of the trackbed on Google Earth and it doesn't exist anymore, beside, I gather it was prone to flooding from the River Teign along much of it's length.

As for the former Southern Railway Okehampton route, there's a huge problem at Tavistock. The centre of the town is spanned by a large viaduct, in their wisdom the Local Authority have allowed houses to be built right at the end of the viaduct next to the beautifully restored station, then, just to complete the destruction, they've built themselves a nice set of Council Offices on the other side of the station.

I think they've as much chance of opening any of these routes up as re-connecting the GCR through Leicester.

I saw on the breakfast news this morning that another reason for not strengthening the sea wall at Dawlish was it's likely impact on birdlife. Really, what, Common Gulls? I'm a member of the RSPB, but I certainly can't think of that as any reasonable excuse for allowing Devon and Cornwall's lifeline to fall into disrepair.

Incidentally, whats it like up there, I've gone down the garden, looked over the fence and the River Blackwater has burst it's banks big time, worse than I've ever seen it before. I'm OK, although only a couple of 100 yards away I'm on a hill about 15m above the water level. It isn't going to do our Otter and Kingfisher colonies much good though.

Meanwhile the missus is racing around between here and Finchingfield trying to get to work around the floods, she left at 7:30 and it's 9:00 now, it's normally a 20 minute journey, the school there is closed as the place is virtually cut off, with more heavy rain forecast tonight, God knows what it will be like tomorrow.

[garrywhiting 7]

My great aunt owned the Seacroft Hotel at Teignmouth in the 50's and as a kid I spent many happy holidays there spotting all fortnight.

Very interested in this. Do you know when she may have sold the business ? We had at least 3 family holidays at the Seacroft in the period 1958 to 1962 and the owners ( or perhaps resident managers ) were a Mr & Mrs Ridd. Obviously given the Lorna Doone connection, Mr Ridd was called Jan by everybody, including his wife, ajthough he was at pains to point out that this was not his real first name.

[FLY2 10,108]

Hi Garry, my great aunt died around 62, she was killed in a road accident. The hotel I believe was left to Jan and Marge.I have some info relating to the accident in the loft. I'll dig it out over the weekend. I know there was some family disagreement over her estate. I don't know if she left a will. There is nobody to ask as I have no relatives other than my immediate family, though I presume there could be Jan and Marge's descendants in the Torbay area. I don't think my parents visited Teignmouth after Aunt Edith's death. I do recollect a large parakeet or cockatoo in the foyer, and the little brass gong that was sounded at dinner time. Great times.

[firbeck 859]

After driving half way round North Essex trying to get into Finchingfield, madam has returned home, the police have shut the main road from Braintree and the centre of the village is flooded including the Fox pub of 'Lovejoy' fame. Meanwhile our pal down the road has rung, the residents down there are eyeing the Blackwater with great concern, it's getting very high, I've just looked out the window and it's getting worse, what happens when all that water up in Finchingfield gets this far I dread to think.

I might take the dogs for a walk down the Nature Reserve in a bit and have a look, when it stops raining.

[garrywhiting 7]

Hi Garry, my great aunt died around 62, she was killed in a road accident. The hotel I believe was left to Jan and Marge.I have some info relating to the accident in the loft. I'll dig it out over the weekend. I know there was some family disagreement over her estate. I don't know if she left a will. There is nobody to ask as I have no relatives other than my immediate family, though I presume there could be Jan and Marge's descendants in the Torbay area. I don't think my parents visited Teignmouth after Aunt Edith's death. I do recollect a large parakeet or cockatoo in the foyer, and the little brass gong that was sounded at dinner time. Great times.

Thank you for the quick reply, My brother and I were often allowed to strike the gong either for lunch or dinner. We all sat in the semicircular sun lounge at the front of the hotel before the meals , my parents with a gin & tonic, dry ginger ale for us boys.

My younger brother & I would get up early in the morning and sneak out of the hotel for the short walk to the seawall to spend an hour watching the trains before breakfast.

[StephenFord 866]

As Firbeck says, the course of the "short cut" from Exeter to Newton Abbot is now partly occupied by the A38 dual carriageway near Chudleigh, and was always susceptible to flooding by the river Teign between there and Newton Abbot. The stub that is left goes as far as Heathfield (not Eastfield). There is also a disused spur at the Exeter end, and can be seen branching off to the right just south of St Thomas station. The section from Exeter to Chudleigh passed through hilly country and was quite steep, sharply curved, all single track, and included a tunnel at Longdown. So re-constructing it to double track main line standard would be an expensive business. It has to be said that even apart from the Dawlish sea wall, the stretch north of Exeter is also low-lying and frequently subject to flooding.

[garrywhiting 7]

Well, there was always the proposed GWR *inland route" from Exminster to Bishopsteignton, which was going to be built to mainline standard (double track throughout ), but it would have had stiff gradients and quite a long tunnel through Haldon Hill at the back of both Dawlish & Teignmouth. This route was proposed in the middle of the 1930's, put on hold because of the Second World War and not officially abandonded until 1949.

[DAVIDW 1,683]

Firbeck , A more detailed map of an alternate route has just appeared .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26068375#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

[Rob.L 1,090]

End of the day, they'll take the cheapest option and rebuild the sea wall just enough to get the current line working again, while saying this was a "once in a lifetime" event.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

Firbeck , A more detailed map of an alternate route has just appeared .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26068375#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

That map doesn't show the detail that the part of the line beyond Crediton as far as Yeoford Junction carries the Barnstaple line services and is not just part of 'the Dartmoor Railway'.

I still think that if they can build a brand new line between the Channel Tunnel and London and plan to build another between London and the Midlands and North it would be a comparatively small undertaking to build a deviation around Tavistock or wherever in order to restore the Okehampton line to Plymouth. It's all a question of having the will - and the money - to do it. As I said before - do they spend money on a one-off project like that, or keep spending it every time Dawlish suffers like it is doing now?

[StephenFord 866]

When I checked earlier today, in addition to the sea wall at Dawlish, the line between Taunton and Exeter was closed due to planned structural work in Whiteball tunnel, and there were floods at Bridgwater, so there was more or less nothing west from Bristol. Trains from Paddington to Exeter were going (about every two hours) via Castle Cary and Yeovil Junction.