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If the government announced a scheme to save £150m on each of several occasions that meant 2,000,000 public sector workers would lose a day's pay each time (based on £75 each), would the workers go for it? There are threats to repeat the strikes into next year so I'm just totting up how many schools and hospitals we can build with the money we've saved already with more to come. Sure it inconvenienced parents but did anyone notice closed libraries or lack of firefighters? The union leaders say they advance their cause with each day's strike (but remember the union leaders aren't losing pay - their members provide their generous salaries). They are gradually alienating the public and the Tories have a party political solution through tighter laws in the near future (should be a vote winner if disruption continues).

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Exactly right Bilbraborn! The private sector makes the money and the public sector spends it. Both work hand in fist with each other and the public sector cannot have a better time of it unless the pr

#37. If you work out that public sector workers are paid from the public purse it doesn't quite work that way. Yes they seem to pay all the same taxes as everyone else, but as it is taxes that pay th

Striking is futile. There is no more money for teachers and the firefighters have to accept that their pensions are what they are (like millions of other are having to do). Trade unions are to a lar

Can find no fault with your thought pattern, Mr Engineer, the sooner some of the 'public servants' realise nobody's indispensable the better...........in either the public or private sectors.

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My first thought was to wonder if striking teachers will be fined for absence during term time. My second was to reflect why it is that strike action has to be taken by anyone before notice is taken.

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Striking is futile. There is no more money for teachers and the firefighters have to accept that their pensions are what they are (like millions of other are having to do). Trade unions are to a large degree anachronistic. Many of the issues that culminated in their formation are now covered by legislation, not least of which is Health and Safety. We have a minimum wage and further than that, market forces will drive demand for labour (i.e. if anyone wants a big pay rise they need to better themselves to get promotion or seek a better opportunity with a different employer). The 'big' unions are often led by figureheads that are rooted in the seventies, when they could intimidate weak politicians (until a greengrocer's daughter from Grantham came along). The union executive are funded by members subscriptions and generally take a hefty salary. They have nothing to lose personally by calling strikes and will of course try to convince all that will listen that their case is sound and that the employers are oppressing the workers. Propaganda at its finest.

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Unions came into being because men and women were all but slaves to their "masters" or employers.

Those resources that many of us now have are because our forefathers organised themselves to have a voice including striking in difficult times. The pendulum swings my friends and all we see is the continued battle between capital and labour.

I for one am grateful for the pension and the health service and the education I had all of it fought for by my grandfather and his mates and latterly by my father and his mates.

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I worked for an employer that was responsible for closed shops and unions being formed.

Broken hill Mining company in the late 1800's would provoke men into striking due to corporate greed. The mens pay would be dropped and hours of work increased.

When the men downed tools, Broken Hill shipped cheap scab labour in, this went on for years..It started the Australian union movement off.

The same company today is BHP, one of the worlds largest mining companies, not a lot has changed, other than they use the same tactics in 3rd world countries.

I worked for a wholley owned subsiduary of BHP, namely AI&S. We were locked out the gate and told not to report to work unless we were willing to abide by our work contract.

Fair enough, BUT, there was a downturn in the world steel market, our coal went directly to Port Kembla steel works.

The top producing face had been dropped off line due to coal surplus, only overtime approved by the Manager could be worked, and no vacancies, period! If someone retired or left, he wouldn't be replaced.

So, it didn't matter if we worked to contract or not, it didn't affect the company one brass cent.

It was just a provocative move to force the issue to a strike, that way they wouldn't be producing surplus to requirements coal, and paying weekly wages for us sitting around...

The one thing BHP missed though was the solidarity in the Australian coal industry, once word got out, every colliery in NSW and Queensland walked off the job in sympathy...

Didn't worry BHP, they didn't need the coal, so why should they care......

Wait a minute though, most of NSW and Queenslands power was generated by coal, and the power stations only carried around two months of coal stocks....

Eventually the government via the NSW and Queensland coal tribunals got involved by order of the two states PM's.

After around six weeks being locked out of the gates, we weren't on strike, my employer was ordered by a judge to reinstate employment, gave us a $60 a week raise, extra weeks annual leave, extra week of sick leave per year and to add insult to injury, he ordered a bonus scheme he had worked out upon the owners, which he amended after we had resumed work.

The bonus scheme actually went against us until the world steel sales picked up.

Also, being a member of the Electrical Trades Union, I wasn't afraid to stop production on safety concerns, which I did on more than one occasion. One was a serious breach of mining regulations and might have led to a serious explosion killing the whole face team I worked with.

Had we not been in strong unions, I could have been intimidated to cut corners and placed a shorting link on the methane monitors...

So Unions do have their place, as long as those involved don't abuse the powers.

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The point I make is that unions had their place - sure they changed the world, mainly for the better in regard of working conditions and a day's pay for a day's work. Also I would assert that Health and Safety is rigidly controlled in the UK today (some would say "gone mad") and the law would discourage any reputable employer from 'persuading' employees to bypass safety devices.

As for solidarity and industrial action, where did it get the coal and steel industries in the UK? Most here will know someone who used to be a pitter in the Notts mines and I have sympathy for those who lost jobs and livelihood, with little prospect of gaining alternative productive work.

Maybe Third World countries still need them until they catch up socially, industrially and morally, but I reckon unions have had their day in the UK.

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My Grandad was N.U.R. branch secretary, Bulwell) from 1937 to 1966, and i saw alot of the good, Unions did for their members back in the day. i'm sure he would'nt recognise the world we live in today.

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If "unions have had their day" then capital certainly has not.

So heaven help the workers of tomorrow as they are screwed to the floor.

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If unions are to survive, they need seriously to review what they are about. The original concept of power through numbers and walking out simply doesn't work anymore. I know that at a 'local' level, union reps and branch officials by and large do a good job and help individual members with claims and issues. However, at the top end, they seem to have 'lost the plot' and you get characters whose personal agenda subsumes their elected role, often with designs on being a politician (case in point: Alan Johnson, postman through union to cabinet minister).

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I was brought up the mining industry, and we had "elf and safety" before industry did.. The Mines and Quarries Act, and take it from me, the only time Management worried, was when an Inspector was going to visit. Although in Australia we did have workmans inspections every month and the lads made sure any contraventions of the Coal Mines Act were duly noted in the respective book...That book was examined on each Mines Inspectors visit.

But we were still pressure to bend the rules, both in UK mines and Australian mines even with the stiff penalties and possible prison sentances that could be imposed.

Example of that is the recent court case against the small Welsh mine Manager... Although he was found not guilty, it's obvious from what I read that he neglected his job and several miners lost their lives.

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I suppose in this era of new enlightenment a solution would be to put public sector workers (you know the ones ,teachers, nurses , doctors administrators) down the pits with the children to get the remnants of coal that are left and perhaps do a bit of fracking whilst they are there........................

Any money from the proceeds trousered by those who (legitimately of course) hold the mineral rights.

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Mr Engineer don't forget a lot of money is lost when a large body of workers strike, be it either local govt workers or private co workers.

Income tax & NI payments are reduced, less wages = less taxes. The knock on effect as well, less child care costs, less fuel & travel costs all add up.

A lot of council workers have not had a pay rise for ten years, some have even seen their wages cut.

Also don't forget, Nottms WPL is a try out for every council up & down the country, a tax on driving to work, even when there is no public transport to get you to work.

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Remember too that unions provide legal representation for workers subject to victimization, wrongful dismissal, discrimination, (continuing)health & safety offences, injury at work and other infringements. It isn't always about money.

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This one is a Win Win. No bin collection Thursday, so the bin men lose a days pay. Garden bin being collected as I type so we are on double time. Re-cycling bin due for collection tomorrow so more double time.

Working in the private sector I am bladdy fed up with paying for everything through my taxes.

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I wish I (in the private sector) could have as good pay and conditions as them. Trouble is, we have to earn our money.

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This was a really funny programme in the 60's and had a good cast that included Reg Varney, Sheila Hancock and Barbara Windsor.

So it was Michael! You don,t get me I,m part of the union was a fun song also but pray to God we dont go back to those times, While I have every sympathy with the people on low wages because of hard times I have no sympathy with the strike action.

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So let the owners of the factors of production screw those who do the work ..........

No problem! Let the rich get richer and stuff the people that do the work whether they be in the public or private sector.

No! No! let's not have strikes let's just touch our forelocks and know our places.

Well not me!

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I remember the strikes and Power cuts of the 70s.

A few years ago there was a one day strike by all Public service employees.

This was over pension cuts (By the fat bastards with ring fenced pensions!)

I explained to younger members of staff that they would be most effected and though time to draw their pensions seemed far away, it would soon arrive.

I went on strike and lost a days pay, to support the younger members in protecting their pensions.

Some younger members went in to work, some of which were on a rest day on the strike day, could have stayed off and not lost any pay.

They went in "less than 72 hours notice of cancelled rest day" received overtime Plus a re-allocated rest day!

Ironically my pension was safe because of my age, I went on strike to protect the pension of some who went in and earned overtime.

Would I go out on strike again? NO CHANCE!

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As Springsteen once said, "Unions have been the only effective voice working people have ever had in the history of this country." He was referring to the States but it applies equally here.

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The miners strikes in the early 70's, 1972 and 4 were over broken promises by the NCB and the government Mick. Mineworkers were promised their pay would keep track with outside industry, but didn't.

I left in 1968 as a skilled electrician, and got a job on regular days in a clean workshop, no shifts, no bad roof, no dangerous gases. I could wash my hands before snap time, have a nice clean toilet for, well you know what, instead of squatting down on the blind side of a conveyor belt with no place to wash my hands afterwards.

I left the industry at 18 pounds a week, including shift allowance, face allowance, grease money etc etc, to work in sanitary conditions with no dangers for 18 pounds a week. And I didn't have to crawl up a 3ft high face to do my work.

That was the reason for the miners strikes of 72/74...

There's nowt like spending a shift crawling up and down low coal faces for a living!!! My knees are well and truly screwed up now.

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