Open cast mining at Cossall.

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

They lost the battle when they tried to opencast mine there a few years ago. They called it Robinettes then but now they are back with a new name - Shortwood Farm. This time they have won and poor Cossall will be enveloped in mud and dust for at least five years. They say they will return the fields to how they were, but I don't think so. It always looks very false to me.

Growing up in Bilborough, I walked and later cycled to cossal, over the fields from Strelley. It was lovely countryside. Before the M1 was built through Catstone Hill there was a very small Open-cast site through which our school cross country course used to go later when it was abandoned. They didn't restore in those days. Just beyond was a little cottage whose occupants used to sell crisps and pop to us kids when we got hungry and thirsty on our walks. Even the M1 didn't destroy all the countryside round there thanks to the vigilance of Miss Edge who lived at Strelley Hall. I am so sad that it is going to happen. That's progress I suppose.

I will be going round there taking photos in the coming weeks.

[Compo 10,328]

What's happening to all teh coal mined in UK? All I can get here is Polish and Chinese coal.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I did some reaserch on that area because of the claims by the company who have the rights to open cast the coal...Is there any coal there???? There's been mining of the coal by various people for centuries as several seams crop nearby..

I checked borehole logs going back to the late 1800's and even the NCB's who sunk several bores to check the seams for Cossall Colliery in Derbyshire. In one case the went through a 7ft void, where the Deep Soft seam was supposed top be...Mined out years back.. They even went through a 4 foot are where the Top Hard seam should have been, all it the cores showed was old "goaf" The waste, old packs and timbers. I made a not of the seams and thicknesses, most seams were but a couple of inches thick, not worth bothering with.

I think that company is in for an expensive shock.

Turkey Hill Colliery, Catstone Hill Colliery and Cinderhill Colliery, not to be confused with Babbington, all worked that area from the mid 1800's to the 1920's.

Lord Middleton also had bellpits sunk to recover coal close to the surface, that coal paid for Wollaton Hall to be built.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Here's some of the info I found.

Shortwood Borehole 1958, NCB Trowell to prove the Tupton and Blackshale seams.

Roofsoft? 10ft at 10foot depth....(Not a seam but a "marker for the Deep Soft seam"

Deep Soft seam.....Old Workings 7ft 0" at 34ft 6" depth.

Coal...1ft 6" at 73ft 9"

Coal 33" at 117ft 3"

I doubt they'd open cast below that depth so didn't note the rest of the borehole.

Borehole at Trowell 1894.

Coal at 18ft 5" 8" thick.

Deep Soft seam 6ft 4" at 68ft 3" depth.

Deep Hard seam GOAF...Old workings waste....106ft 5" to 109ft 9" Worked out????

Bore at Trowell Moor NNE of Downcast shaft, Trowell Moor Colliery.

Kilburn Seam 4ft 5" to crop of seam, bore just logs all the bottom of the lower measure seams which are just inches thick. these being:-

Naughton 8" at 108yds 1ft 10"

40 yd coal 10" at 121yd 0ft 8"

Alton 3ft 5" at 153yds 2ft 3"

These would be too deep to open cast.

I found more boreholes, but again results look rather poor...Is this company working a tax right off???

[NewBasfordlad 3,599]

Back in the 1980's I used to shoot over Swingate farm. An awful lot of that area had been open cast some time before and then put back to farming. If you look on Google maps you will see Spring wood where the top of the wood closest to the farm is still natural woodland whilst below it is a laid out pine plantation which was part of the restoration.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Perfectly lined up trees..

[Compo 10,328]

Ayupmeducks: Would it be possible to find the results of the test borings at Annesley that took place in the late 1960s? When I worked there I was told that 29 workable seams had been found below Deep Soft, which was currently being worked.

[plantfit 7,580]

All restoration plans need to be in place before any digging is started, they need to be approved by local authorities after consultation with residents and businesses, a full survey has to be carried out and any road/public footpaths alterations need to be sorted at the expense of the mining company (not cheap) all visual and noise bunds have to be in place around the site and these are made up of overburden and top soils from the dig area and these will be put back in the same area and same order they were removed in when restoration is taking place,restoration takes on many forms and at Cossall it will probably be back to agriculture, not allowed to grow root crops on the restored land for a minimum of five years but it can be used for livestock or top crops such as wheat,corn,oats etc, the only difference you will see after restoration will be a lowering of the ground level, not too much of a problem in the rolling countryside of Derbyshire/Notts, it is however a bit of a problem out here in Lincolnshire with the water table being just below the ground anyway so a lot of our restoration consists of wet woodland and heath which is what Lincolnshire is short of so in a way we are giving the natural habitat a hand. As for noise and dust this shouldn't be a problem once again as part of strict planning restrictions dust suppression and noise monitoring are a must,if the mining company fail on any of these the council have the power to shut down the operations, and they will, and strict financial penalties will be imposed on them

Rog

[taxi ray 170]

Ayupmeducks: Would it be possible to find the results of the test borings at Annesley that took place in the late 1960s? When I worked there I was told that 29 workable seams had been found below Deep Soft, which was currently being worked.

The British Geological survey people at Keyworth have a site showing most boreholes, handy to look at to see what is being planned.

http://mapapps.bgs.ac.uk/geologyofbritain/home.html?mode=boreholes

[Limey 242]

Before they opencast any site, they will drill a large number of shallow wells (typically to about 300ft max.), and have them logged. These logs do not appear in either the Geological Survey, or NCB records, perhaps because they are "proving" wells, not exploratory.

When I worked for BPB instruments, we did most of the logging for the NCB, and some for the GS - we also did the majority of opencast sites in the U.K. We even had special vehicles (Haflingers) for doing the opencast sites. We referred to it as "shallow hole" and would typically log five or six holes in one day! On the site I worked most on (Tranent, just SE of Edinburgh) we often encountered old workings. I asked about the seams being worked out, but they were old room-and-pillar workings so there was still enough coal to make it economically viable.

The holes Ayup is referring to are way to far apart to "prove" an opencast site. They will drill at least 2 holes/acre to prove the reserves.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I get all my borehole info from the BGS, some logs date back to pre drilling rigs date, done by percussion methods.

Eric, I'd have thought judging by the BGS site ALL logs have to be logged by law now???

There are many shallow bores on their site.

Compo, seams below DS are:-

Deep Hard, 1st Piper, 2nd Piper, ( These two sometimes come together and form just one seam), Tupton (Low Main), 3/4, Yard, Blackshale, Mickley, Kilburn, Wingfield Flags, Horton, Alton..

Although named, the seams below the Blackshale are too thin to work.

The "floor" of the Alton seam is the Millstone Grit, no more seams exist below that.

Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire only have the "Middle coal series" and Bottom coal series" The top series is missing.

Yorkshire and Lancashire has top, middle and bottom series, seperated by the two "Marine Bands"

Also at Annesley you'll have from surface:-

High Main, Clowne, Main Bright, Abdy, High Hazels, Coombe/Cinderhill, Top hard, (Barnsley bed), Dunsil, 1st Waterloo, 2nd Waterloo, 3rd Waterloo, 1st Ell, 2nd Ell, then Deep Soft. Many of those are workable, depending on thickness, which varies a great deal from one end of the coalfield to the other...ie at Clifton Colly, Deep hard was 5 feet thick near Ruddington, and less than four feet at Tollerton and Five feet 6 inches in the shafts, to seven feet plus just north of the shafts, as evidenced from photos dating 1880's.

[Limey 242]

That is an interesting web site! This is one of the boreholes that I logged (at about 2am on a Saturday morning)! Note that it identifies a BPB Instruments Geophysical log!

However, if I look at the opencast site I did a LOT of work at, the boreholes are not marked. It may be that because the site is now worked out (The A1 now goes through the site), the hole records are invalid so they don't display them, but if I look at the Lount opencast site near Ashby-de-la-Zouch (SK31NE1520)all the proving wells are recorded - and that site is also worked out. It does give you a good idea of how many wells are drilled for an opencast site though!

Many of the holes at the Trowel/Cosall area are actually pits, typically dug with a back hoe (or pick and shovel), and are simply to determine bedrock depth for construction purposes - note how they follow the M1, and other possible road routes - some are even labelled with the road description (Birmingham-Nottingham for example).

[firbeck 859]

At the end of the Robinettes Canal Arm there used to be a drift mine, I remember seeing miners going into it when out for walks, probably at the end of the 50's, what was the name of this mine and how far into the hillside did it go. I recall the entrance was still there in the 60's a relatively small square brick shaft going horizontally into the hillside closed off with an open rail gate, as kids we were looking at ways to get in when the farmer appeared and very patiently and kindly explained to us never to attempt it as the tunnel was full of methane or fire damp. Looking just now on Google Earth, I can see some buildings in the area and what looks like the outline of a horizontal shaft going into the hillside, does anybody have any information on this. I'm sure that one of the first opencasts in the area, which destroyed what we used to call 'Bluebell Wood' for obvious reasons, was more or less over the top of the drift mine. Bilbraborn, I thought the open cast site we were forced to cross country run through was fairly extensive, I seem to remember it started right on the edge of Strelley village near the Hall where the old Strelley lane branched off and went along Catstone Hill and down to Oldmoor Wood, I think that the coming of the M1 and the building of the covered reservoir on Catstone Hill put paid to any further development.

[BulwellBrian 107]

I read somewhere that the site for opencasting was 130 hectares and they expect to mine 1.3 million tons. That make it about 10,000 tons per hectare.

1 hectare is 11960 sq yards. 1 cubic yard of coal in situ weighs about 1 ton.

If 1 hectare has coal 1 yard thick it would be 11960 cubic yards, i.e. about 11960 tons of coal.

Therefore the coal thickness expected to be recovered is about 1 yard thick on average.

I hope I have no slipped a decimal point.

I am sure that they or possibly the NCB opencast Executive, as was, made sufficient boreholes to make sure the coal is there.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

firbeck, that's a new one on me, I've not come across any mention of any drift mines in the area you mention, maybe a pirate operation??

[Limey 242]

This is a screenshot of the density of wells at the Lount O/C site - as you can see - a lot of work has to be done at Cossall before they start removing overburden!

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

Pete, The mine in that area was actually called Shortwood farm. I don't if there was a drift mine though. The opencast mine looked quite big but by todays standards it was quite small. I remember being up to our thighs in black mud. It did put our cross-country team at an advantage. Some of the buildings you see may be farm buildings. I remember walking round there with my kids one day sometime in the late 1980s and we found a barn full of hay. We had fun jumping off the hayloft into large piles of hay.

I remember when they built the M1 there was a massive seam in the cutting at Catstone hill. The NCB had to send lorries to dig it out. Most of that area was in the exposed coal field. I know there was still a lot of outcrop coal when I was a kid. Even in the woods on Glaisdale Drive.

[firbeck 859]

I've been Googling and found it was called Oakwood Grange Colliery, a drift mine dug in 1937 and closed down in 1960, though, I've found conflicting evidence suggesting 1969, but that was probably the buildings and workshops, the shaft was definately closed by the early 60's, but it explains why I can remember seeing miners entering and leaving the tunnel in the late 50's. I've also found mention of another drift mine put in during 1956 at Cossall, perhaps this is the one, I haven't found out yet. We used to approach it from the Nottingham Canal by walking along the short Robinettes branch at the end of which you had and probably still do, a good view of the place. If you go on Google Maps and put in Cossall, the canal branch is shown to the south of the village, switch to satellite and track along to the end of the branch, you can see a building hidden in the trees and to the east of it, a small structure with what looks like the outline of a horizontal drift heading under the hillside.

If you Google Oakwood Grange Colliery, there seems to be info and photo's but you have to sign up and log in which I haven't had time to do. There are some photos of the main colliery site north of the drift and one on Picture the Past showing inside the mine itself. I'll see what else I can find out tomorrow.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Never come across that one, if it was in derbyshire that might be the reason I never came across it.

The top hard seam crops where the M1 was driven and is pretty thick, so that's probably the seam they hit when building the motorway. Just west of Wollaton Park was where the Middletons had coal mined from bell pits just a few feet down, again top hard seam.

Top Hard was 71 inches thick at Clifton Colliery, but was waterlogged and at 219ft 8" in the shafts.

At Wollaton Colliery it was 62" thick and 38ft 4 " deep, so that gives some idea of the dip in the coalfield.

At Linby it was 433 yards deep!! at Gedling it was 419 metres...Sorry about the metric crossover, those are the figures I collected over the years.

Cotgrave, top hard was at 1296ft 5" and was 3ft 6" thick..

Again the dip is around 5 degrees to the south east and east.

[NewBasfordlad 3,599]

Firbeck, I think the wood you refer to as Bluebell wood is actually Spring Wood on the land at Swingate farm, this farm was owned by a gentleman called Ray. Next door to that on the other side of Spring wood is Oldmoor Farm this was owned by Rays brother John. It would be the late 80s when I was roaming all over there as far down as Robinettes Cottage. Most of that land had been opencast the eastern bounder is easily seen by the change of planting in Spring wood about 2/3 of this was destroyed leaving only the very eastern bit as natural wood land with some very fine beech trees across the top.

I have to say though that by the time I was shooting over there nature had made a good come back, helped by the fast growing pine that was planted we even had deer wandering around the place.

[rexyrex 19]

I have no documentary evidence to support much of this but here goes.

Oakwood Grange colliery was indeed a drift mine owned and worked by my late wife's grandfather Harry Rigley. I don't know if he actually started it. When coal was nationalised in 1947 or thereabouts it was, of course, taken over by the NCB. He was paid for it but it but he said it took 5 years to get his money. In fact the Conservatives were back in power by then!

His wife Frances used to say that when he came home in the winter he had to stand in front of the fire before he could take his trousers off because they were frozen solid from working waste deep in muddy water.

During the war years every ton was paramount and in about 1984 when he was about 83 he told me of when a conveyor belt was first installed. If you can imagine this spoken with a gruff old-fashioned Ilkeston accent "my - you should have seen it, it was comin' out pit six foot across at therty mile an hour".

I once saw a press cutting from the mid forties which said that the mine had, that month, achieved the highest man-ton output in the nation - well maybe it was in the area, I can't remember. But in his later years Harry reckoned that the mine was closed down by the coal board for political reasons because it was too embarrassingly efficient when compared to the other pits in the Notts/Derbys coalfield. He said he knew where he would be in 1980. I got the impression from him it was closed by the mid 1950s.

Harry's only offspring Roy - my wife's father - ran the associated road haulage company and lived at a house called The Grange, Cossall. He died young in about 1972.

After his retirement Harry lived at The Manor, Radcliffe on Trent and later built a new house in part of the grounds. He operated the Astoria Ballroom - later the Sherwood Rooms now Ocean nightclub in Collin Street. That was in the "Big Band" era and the big draw was the Ken MacIntosh Orchestra among others like Joe Loss. One of his lesser partners was Bill Derbyshire. He of many Nottingham political shenanigans apparently.

In 1956 he sold his lease to Eric Morley who founded Mecca and later was the ringmaster of the Miss World franchise. He always regretted the deal he did with Morley because there were no rent reviews! The family still have a tiny interest in the premises.

[firbeck 859]

A very interesting reply Rexyrex, I've been busy with bike hires today and not had much chance to look things up, but I've had a quiet moment and found out quite a lot. I started by looking on Old-Maps.com but for some reason they always seem to miss that area of Cossall off the map. However, on the 1966 large scale map it shows a collection of buildings marked 'mine' exactly where I thought it was. I then Googled 'Drft mines Cossall' and got some interesting results, clearly there were several in the area including Oakwood Grange, but it appears that Oakwood wasn't the one I remember seeing in operation. Then I found this site:- www.aditnow.co.uk/mines/Robinetts-Drift-Coal-Mine/ marvellous, I wasn't dreaming after all. If you look on the website there are lot's of recent photographs of the derelict site but no write ups, a pity but it's exactly where I thought it was, in the woods at the end of the canal branch, here's a few of the photo's:-

These are the pit head offices, the entrance to the drift shaft is the gated entrance on the left.

The entrance to the drift.

The drift shaft going into the hillside.

The entrance to the drift for the conveyor.

There are quite a few more pictures on the website which will give you an idea of the extent of all the buildings that appear to be still there, I could never recall that there were that many, I don't think it was so overgrown in the days just after it closed. Incidentally the wood around it is called Brickyard Wood on the old maps, speaks for itself.

[firbeck 859]

By the way Ayupmeducks, I reckon that there were at least 3 drift mines in that area, all of them on the Nottinghamshire side of the Erewash.

NewBasfordlad, the 'Bluebell Wood' I think was properly called Short Wood, just to the south east of the drift mine site, it's marked as such on pre 1960's OS maps then completely vanishes, nothing appears to remain apart from a few boundary trees, I recall it being solid with blubells during the spring.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I'd never come across any reference to these mines Pete, I notice someone has been trying to bend the top of the gate to gain entrance to the drift, this is highly dangerous with old coal mines.

There's a good probability of blackdamp, this is a highly dangerous gas found in coal mines, gas as such, it's really lack of oxygen, replaced with Nitrogen and CO2.. Just a few seconds in that and your a gonner in no time... We were chased out of a road one night with that gas, we were folling a Deputy with his oil lamp in his hand and watching the flame as we proceeded inbye, every cut through, the flame lowered indicating blackdamp issuing into the road we were travelling, until one cut through his lamp went out, he couldn't relight the lamp, so we beat a hasty retreat back to the fresh air station on the main intake roadway. The job I was assigned was cancelled that night for safety reasons.

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

It's my day off Saturday so I might find time to have a nosey round. There must have been loads of primitive mines up there. The whole area surrounded by Strelley, Cossall, Trowell, Awsworth and Kimberley was full of holes which we now call bell pits. It's what made the land owners very rich. Forget health and safety for the miners. It didn't exist. Apparently, most of the coal was dug up in winter when it was needed and the same men worked on farms in the summer.