hippo girl

Speed awareness course

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Sorry Phil, but you cannot drive legally at 60 on a narrow twisty lane. It then become dangerous driving or reckless driving, both of which are illegal.

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Lots of people don’t even drive at the National speed limit on good clear roads. This causes frustration to to other road users who may be tempted into ill judged overtaking procedures. The standard of driving today is very poor. I suppose most people just use a car as a means of getting fro A to B and don’t treat driving as a skill which requires constant attention.

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It has to be remembered that a speed limit is just that, a limit and not a target or mandatory speed.

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I fully realise that but I always drive at The National Speed Limit whenever it's safe to do so. I don't want to be the one holding other people up and causing unnecessary dangerous overtaking manoeuvres. If anyone overtakes me when I'm doing the NSL then that's up to them.

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Nasty ! My missus has had worse than that getting out of our drive !

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I think I've said it before but, the cars of today don't represent the speed limits set 50years ago.or perhaps i meant to say, the speed limits set today do not represent the cars of today! Hope you understand what I mean!!

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Absolutely stuffed full of safety aids, mainly to  protect the occupants, but the abs braking systems have made an enormous difference to stopping distances. I think the biggest problem is that driving standards have not kept pace with car development and drivers seem to exhibit less competence and certainly less tollerance.

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Don't think that's Porchester Rd on 'nasty one' is it?

 

5 hours ago, PeverilPeril said:

Sorry Phil, but you cannot drive legally at 60 on a narrow twisty lane. It then become dangerous driving or reckless driving, both of which are illegal.

I don't think I could agree with that PP.  If a lane is narrow and twisty yet marked as National Speed Limit then it is precisely that, the powers-that-be have deemed that speed appropriate. If there happened to be a member of the constabulary with a speed detector and the driver's speed was recorded under 60mph, no offence is being committed. Dangerous or reckless driving would only apply after the fact, that is, should an excessive speed even under the limit, be responsible for an accident because of specific conditions. The point is of course, drivers should always drive to the road conditions, can they see all potential hazards and be able to react in good time by braking/avoidance whilst remaining on their side of the road.   

4 hours ago, woody said:

It has to be remembered that a speed limit is just that, a limit and not a target or mandatory speed.

Yes and no. Under normal road conditions a driver is expected to drive to the speed limit, to avoid inconvenience to other road users. If you were taking your driving test today, the examiner would be observing that you were making progress and proceeding at 30 mph say, in a 30 mph limit. If you drove under that, a 'minor' may be recorded. The examiner would then be looking to see if that continued to be the case throughout the test and if so, the candidate could be failed.

 

It seems to be accepted that slow drivers are just as likely to cause accidents as speeders.

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No Ian, I don't remember one either. At first I wondered if that wall was the hospital but no, none of the rest looks like Porchester to me. Still, I've been wrong before lol.

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8 hours ago, TBI said:

 

It seems to be accepted that slow drivers are just as likely to cause accidents as speeders

My ex wife told me that she had never had an accident, but knowing how she used to drive, I'd say she had seem plenty in her rear view mirror.

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You can fail a test by not observing the speed limit. I was once told by an examiner whilst on advanced course that is referred to as " Failure to progress". Incidentally, I passed. !

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You remind me of my HGV test with a fire engine. I was already a driver but the Brigade sent someone on an instructors course. He asked me to take the test to check his standard. I was assured that if I failed, I would still be a driver .

On the test day, his advice was to drive "exactly by the book , including speed limits ". ( I was a lunatic driver ).

After the test, the examiner said  he could not fault me, but I " could have gone a bit quicker, we were holding traffic up ".

You can't win sometimes....

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I might be wrong, but years ago, could you drive a fire engine on a car licence?. I think someone told me this a long time back, as fire engines wernt classed as HGV. I know that now that they do!

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I'm not sure of the legalities, but we were driving fire engines on just a car licence a good few years after it was law to have an HGV licence for wagons. I seem to remember a thing called grandfathers rights, we didn't have to take the test, but were considered qualified !

Grandfather, I was 24 !

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Passed my test on a double decker bus so got a full licence. It was about five years before I ever touched a car, I was very cautious at first and my missus used to say to me, " what you waiting for ? You can get a bus through that gap". I was used to inching my way through lines of parked vehicles when on the bus and it sort of stuck ! Never realised the freedom. But I never made the mistake of thinking the opposite, I.e getting a bus through a narrow gap. For the record, I loved Fleet lines.

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14 minutes ago, fogrider said:

Grandfather, I was 24

With today's generation, it's possible!!

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OK TBI. If a lane is narrow and twisty, as described by Phil, and someone drives at 60, are they driving illegally?

It is patently obvious that they are driving dangerously or recklessly on such a road! I have been thrown into hedges twice when out cycling by drivers doing that. I also received a serious injury that put me out of action for 6 weeks. It's an odd mindset that thinks that 60 is possible because the law does not prohibit that speed.

I noted that you said "when safe to do so", but we were talking about a narrow twisty lane, where it is never safe to do so.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Beekay said:

You can fail a test by not observing the speed limit. I was once told by an examiner whilst on advanced course that is referred to as " Failure to progress". Incidentally, I passed. !

The only comment from the examiner after I passed my test was that I drove a little too slowly. Nobody can say that now!

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I'm sorry to hear of your injuries PP, so I can understand how you feel.

 

I'm not saying anyone should drive at the maximum speed at all times or condoning it, merely questioning your interpretation of law. A 'narrow twisty lane' can be any number of things. For dangerous driving as defined in criminal law, the driving has to fall far short of that expected of a careful driver. That in itself is an imprecise requirement, what defines a 'careful driver'. There are huge variances in driving ability and individual vehicle handling and braking characteristics. In the situation mentioned, a driver who habitually uses a 'narrow twisty lane' and knows every bit of it will know whether all, parts or none can or can't be safely driven at the speed limit. What speed do they determine is safe? If they drove at 50 in a 60mph they could quite reasonably argue they were being careful.

 

That's the law situation, we know the law is an ass. In reality, as I stated, one should drive according to the conditions and always be able to anticipate hazards and stop safely. Certainly in rural areas, one may not know whether a combine harvester is trundling toward you round the corner or another bloke doing 60, doubling the impact speed.

 

When I say I know how you feel PP, I do, I honestly sympathise. I have been knocked off my motorcycle by careless motorists, just as recently I avoided a group of cyclists who thought it appropriate to stop in the middle of the road for a conflab, just over the brow of a hump bridge.  Just saying....

 

   

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There are cyclists and cyclists. The ones I just mentioned...I stopped and pointed out politely, and I really mean politely, that they might wish to move up the road a bit, for their safety. All I got was a load of lip! 

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