Trainspotting

[Merthyr Imp 729]

Compare today - I live in Shropshire. From Shrewsbury my options are Arriva 153s, 158s or 175s; LM 170s (to Birmingham); or just once a day I can go to South Wales and back on the 67-hauled Holyhead - Cardiff.

Think yourself lucky not to get a class 150 as we recently did - substituting for a 175 all the way from Manchester to Cardiff.

[firbeck 859]

This wasn't you then Chulla:-

Oh, here's the original Deltic at Grantham, I must have taken this in the late 50's:-

And the first production model I ever saw a few years later, judging by the gleaming buffers it was brand new, I remember the cab was full of men wearing white boiler suits making notes on clipboards

Now those two standing on the platform really are wearing anoraks.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

Records show D9009 'Alycidon' was introduced into service on 21st July 1961 and named the same day. Not all of them had names initially. Note this was in the days before the yellow warning panel on the front end.

[firbeck 859]

Records show D9009 'Alycidon' was introduced into service on 21st July 1961 and named the same day. Not all of them had names initially. Note this was in the days before the yellow warning panel on the front end.[/quote

That sounds about right, early days in the school holidays, off to Grantham as soon as possible! I presume the loco was built at Vulcan Foundry, ran light to Doncaster and was named there. Glad to see it's preserved in it's original state, I think I must have seen it at Barrow Hill a couple of years ago along with most of the others. I recall travelling down Stoke Bank behind a Deltic circa 1965, Bilbraborn, Polly Flinders and I clocked it at 112mph, I don't know what the fastest speed a Deltic ever achieved.

Talking of clocking speeds, during one of our little trips, Bilbraborn, John Smith and I, Vic to Rugby, sneak round Rugby testing station and sheds, trip to Nuneaton, sneak round sheds to see the last steam south of Crewe on the WCML ( with help from the drivers ), back to Rugby for the semi fast Marylebone to Vic. All of this I noted in a little book including timings, 100mph on the electric from Rugby to Nuneaton for instance. The train back from Rugby, Class 5 hauled as usual with only 5 coaches on, really went for it after East Leake down through Rushcliffe Halt, my all singing and dancing divers watch, smuggled in from Jersey, recorded a maximum of 97mph, unlikely, but it was certainly very fast. I recall that in the last days of steam on the SR mainline out of Waterloo, the drivers were really giving their Pacific's all they'd got and achieving some very high speeds, allegedly well over the ton. I remember catching the evening boat train from Waterloo to Weymouth pulled by MN 'United States Lines' and it went like the wind, those old Bullied carriages were swaying all over the place.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

I started "train spotting" around 1960 & gave up around 1985/6.

I just "missed" classes such as the Garrets D49s & D11s

But did manage to see quite a selection of steam.

My parents let me go as far as Birmingham/Wolverhampton aged 12 or 13

And got as far as Leeds(Central) at about the same age.

But I think I started about three years too late to see all the best stuff.

My favourite place..................Birmingham Snow Hill (around 1961/2)

[Merthyr Imp 729]

That sounds about right, early days in the school holidays, off to Grantham as soon as possible! I presume the loco was built at Vulcan Foundry, ran light to Doncaster and was named there. Bilbraborn, Polly Flinders and I clocked it at 112mph, I don't know what the fastest speed a Deltic ever achieved.

Yes, the reference I found states that on 21st July 1961 D9009: 'Ran light from Vulcan Foundry, Newton-le-Willows, to Doncaster Works - accepted into BR service and allocated 34G, Finsbury Park TMD. "ALYCIDON" nameplates fitted without ceremony.'

So could have been that very day!

A quick look for Deltic speed records shows the fastest authenticated speed to be 125mph (not that they would normally go that fast in normal service), with legends of others doing anything up to 130.

[FLY2 10,108]

Great memories, but I still liked my A1's, 2's,3's and 4's best.

Night Hawk heading north one evening. I've never seen anything like it in my life. Smoke, steam, fire the noise was petrifying.

[Bilbraborn 1,594]

Keep it coming fellahs. I'm loving it.

[mercurydancer 1,104]

Its so strange to me that the deltic could get to 125mph without difficulty but the speed shook the carriages behind to bits!

Looking at the timetables posted on this thread and others, the actual time taken on the trains is not a lot different to what it is now. The argument for HS2 should have been settled in the late 1970s not now.

Up where I live, some airlines are competing with trains to London on a cost basis. This should not make economic sense at all, unless the train companies are overcharging. Given that subsidies are paid to train companies to keep to schedule, whereas airlines are largely not subsidised, it makes you think.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

Its so strange to me that the deltic could get to 125mph without difficulty

I'm not so sure it was without difficulty! That 125mph achievement mentioned was with the aid of gravity - it's not a speed they managed on a regular basis.

Regarding train times nowadays compared to those in the past, the following is from the National Railway Museum website, referring to Edinburgh to London services:

'By 1967 the Deltic-powered Flying Scotsman covered the 392-mile (631-kilometre) journey in 5 hours 50 minutes. In 1970 air-conditioned carriages were introduced and by 1977 further track renewal had cut the running time to 5 hours 27 minutes.

The High Speed Train went into service in 1978. It provided new levels of passenger comfort and 125 mph (201 km/h) operating speeds. Journey times came tumbling down to 4 hours 35 minutes. East Coast Main Line electrification was completed in 1991 and the Intercity 225 took to the rails. Today the Flying Scotsman still runs, using HSTs or 225s to complete the journey in 4 hours 30 minutes.'

[Smiffy49 590]

There are quite a few photographs of Deltics (and steam locos) roaring through Grantham in the Galleries page of www.linesidephotographics.co.uk

Smiffy

[firbeck 859]

Yes, the reference I found states that on 21st July 1961 D9009: 'Ran light from Vulcan Foundry, Newton-le-Willows, to Doncaster Works - accepted into BR service and allocated 34G, Finsbury Park TMD. "ALYCIDON" nameplates fitted without ceremony.'

I'd be interested to know what route the Deltics used to get from Newton Le Willows to Doncaster, the Woodhead route is the most obvious except they'd have to be hauled dead by an electric loco through the tunnel, the Hope Valley line is a bit out the way, I wonder if they went via the Standedge Tunnel and Wakefield.

The WR Hymeks were built by Beyer Peacock at Gorton, not too far away, I remember going on a Firbeck School trip to Haddon Hall and as the coach was passing through Rowsley we were astonished to see a gleaming new Hymek running light heading south, the first one I ever saw. I assume they were all delivered this way to the WR via Derby and Birmingham.

[firbeck 859]

My favourite place..................Birmingham Snow Hill (around 1961/2)

Yes, so atmospheric and like Vic, wiped off the face of the earth, well, not quite, at least enough of the infrastructure survived for it to be rebuilt and reopened. I only went once in 1962 to see the last of the Kings in action, I recall the only diesels to be seen were DMU's. Unfortunately after taking this photo, my camera started playing up and it's the only decent shot I managed to take, what a waste.

The Kings were all withdrawn after that summer season, the next one I saw was sadly dumped in the scrap line at Old Oak Common the following winter at the beginning of 1963, the last one I saw was sitting, gleaming, at the end of Minehead station about 10 years ago.

Could that be you standing in front in your shorts and unbalanced socks Bubblewrap?

[Smiffy49 590]

#37 Firbeck,

I do remember batches of sometimes three or four Hymeks coming through Ruddington southwards in the early 1960's.

Maybe they somehow moved to Sheffield and then went down the GC mainline, then off to the GW?

Smiffy

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

A mate & me bunked Stafford Road Shed(Wolverhampton) in February 1963 and remember seing a line of withdrawn Kings minus Name/number/shed plates.

But also on shed that day were a number of Castles Halls & a County out of a total of 37 locos (counting the Kings) only two were not named(two pannier tanks)...........Happy days.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

#37 Firbeck,

I do remember batches of sometimes three or four Hymeks coming through Ruddington southwards in the early 1960's.

Maybe they somehow moved to Sheffield and then went down the GC mainline, then off to the GW?

Smiffy

Yes, there's another thread somewhere on this Forum where I've reminisced about seeing brand new Hymeks southbound along the main line when trainspotting at the Rat Hole during school lunch times.

I'm not sure there was a complete ban on diesels working through the Woodhead tunnel - just a restriction on how frequently they could do so. Of course scheduled freight and passenger services would have been electrically hauled anyway. There's some old film on the following site which includes some shots of class 37-hauled trains on the Woodhead route - I suspect the Harwich boat train:

http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/my-farewell-sheffield-manchester-electrics-congreves

So the Hymeks and Deltics would have come that way before heading down the GC main line to Woodford then Banbury, and to Doncaster respectively.

[firbeck 859]

While trying to find various books I came across my combined volume from 1961/62, I thought I'd reproduce the page that Chulla showed earlier:-

From the same book, the Deltics, in the days when they were new and they hadn't been given regimental names:-

[firbeck 859]

I'm not sure there was a complete ban on diesels working through the Woodhead tunnel - just a restriction on how frequently they could do so. Of course scheduled freight and passenger services would have been electrically hauled anyway. There's some old film on the following site which includes some shots of class 37-hauled trains on the Woodhead route - I suspect the Harwich boat train:

So the Hymeks and Deltics would have come that way before heading down the GC main line to Woodford then Banbury, and to Doncaster respectively.

Nice bit of film, you're right, I think it's almost certainly the Harwich Boat Train, I recognise the old LNER teak buffet car that I got to know so well.

The only time I traveled on the whole route was on a Blackpool Illuminations special about 1962. We left Vic early one Saturday morning behind a Class 5 which called at just about every station to Mansfield, on arriving outside Sheffield our steam was exchanged for an electric at Woodhouse which ran non-stop to Guide Bridge. I remember the lights in Woodhead Tunnel were so bright I was really surprised. The electric was unusually taken off the train while we were stationary on a viaduct and replaced by another Class 5 which went through Manchester Exchange and by a circuitous route we ended up briefly running up the WCML, I recall us being overtaken on the 4 track stretch by an express being pulled by Jubilee 'Seahorse'. The journey back from Blackpool started late and followed the same route and procedure, we didn't get back to Vic till 4:00am, mind you I didn't fall asleep on the train, I kept hanging out the window, it was all a new experience for me.

[Merthyr Imp 729]

While trying to find various books I came across my combined volume from 1961/62, I thought I'd reproduce the page that Chulla showed earlier:-

Not a bad haul of numbers! You did well to have seen 'Union of South Africa' - I remember at Newark once talking to a couple of spotters who had seen all the Streaks except that one. I gather it was a Scottish-based engine which rarely worked south of Doncaster if not York. The A3 'Spearmint' was another example.

[BulwellBrian 107]

My recollection of the early 1950's is that 60009 Union of South Africa was a regular on the "Elizabethan" provided by Haymarket shed, South one day and North the next, with 60028 Walter K Wigham the King's Cross engine on the other train.

The non corridor Gateshead based A4's were the rarest.

The scottish A3's were not often in the south, particularly those based at Carlisle for working the Waverley line to Edinburgh.

All the pacifics were overhauled at Doncaster and so did come south on running in trains.

[albert smith 803]

My minds playing tricks, I thought the "Elizabethan" was a west coast ml. train as I have a recollection of a Carlisle driver being 'fined' for speeding. He arrived at Euston about 20 minutes early!

[Merthyr Imp 729]

My minds playing tricks, I thought the "Elizabethan" was a west coast ml. train as I have a recollection of a Carlisle driver being 'fined' for speeding. He arrived at Euston about 20 minutes early!

It was definitely an East Coast service:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabethan_Express

Not sure what you'd be thinking of on the West Coast - maybe the Caledonian?

[davidbird 2]

While trying to find various books I came across my combined volume from 1961/62, I thought I'd reproduce the page that Chulla showed earlier:-

From the same book, the Deltics, in the days when they were new and they hadn't been given regimental names:-

So you managed to get all 22, I was spotting from as soon as I could write down numbers until early 1982...

I never managed 55003 or 020...

Woke up on 3rd Jan 1982, and realised I wasn't interested in trainspotting any more...

[Compo 10,328]

44871 on "The Jacobite" from Fort William to Mallaig, seen approaching Arisaig Station last week:

[Compo 10,328]

Without resorting to 'looking-it-up' can anyone identify this station (Clue....it's not Penzance):