Chulla's Quantum Conjecture

[Jill Sparrow 10,305]

#100

 

There are those who argue that music is nothing but mathematics and Bach can certainly be interpreted in that way. I don't and never have experienced music in terms of maths. Mathematics is a subject I hate, mainly thanks to a certain Irish maths teacher, and music is a subject I love. Interesting that there are precursors of Schoenberg and the 12 tone system within Das Wohltemperite Klavier which makes you look at Bach and marvel at what was going on in his brain and where the music came from.

 

Handel penned Messiah in a matter of days, maintaining that it was almost as though someone else was writing the music through him. Stravinsky said the same of Le Sacre du Printemps, claiming he was merely the vessel through which it passed. Personally, I still find the latter one of the most frightening pieces of music I've ever heard. As a child, it terrified me!

[plantfit 7,592]

Thinking just that this morning Jill

 

Rog

[loppylugs 8,429]

101.now you've really opened it up. Jill 

 

There have been numerous composers of all types, who have claimed that they were just vehicles.  Something else wrote the music through them.  As we know JSB was a devout Christian and almost without exception his work has a strong Christian component.  I don't know how he did it.  I read somewhere he wrote at least a piece a week for next Sunday's service.  I also remember hearing of Jimmy Paige saying that the music for Led Zeppelins Stairway to Heaven just wrote itself.  Judging by the lyrics played in reverse that one came from somewhere else.

 

Handel's Messiah was entirely Biblical in its text, but one would sure have to be some musician to have written such timeless music in the time he managed to do it.  

 

So we've come full circle.  There is no doubt that there is a mechanical process involved even to only play one note.  The question still remains why do we even try?

[The Engineer 614]

Music can of course be described by mathematics - the common multiple frequency of notes in a chord, the duration in quarters, eighths, sixteenths, etc. but computer generated music can sound too clinical if it lacks the human planned swing/syncopation/groove and the unplanned timing errors/dithering.  Digital audio studios can create these effects if the producer so desires, or alternatively, the software can 'quantize' a track to reduce/remove human timing errors.

 

Creation of credible instrumental sounds in mathematical software has proved elusive and so sound 'fonts' are still recorded from real instruments.

 

When it comes to the human voice, the use of software to shift pitch to its mathematically correct frequency can, and often does, sound false.  To err is human, so they say.

[colly0410 1,181]

Yes auto tune can sound very strange. Strangest effect I've ever heard is Cher's song 'Believe' where it was put to very good effect in my opinion. I also like phase shifting (sometimes known as flanging) where it produces a swept comb filtering effect, examples = 'Itchycoo Park' by Small faces & 'Rainbow Chaser' by Nirvana...

[Michael Booth 7,364]

When I listen to a 4 year old pianist play like this I wonder whether she's had a previous life on Earth. The usual people will say it's a load of rubbish, and maybe it is, but the truth is, none of us will know what happens until it's our turn.

 

[NewBasfordlad 3,599]

So very talented even to be able to read music at that age............WOW

[loppylugs 8,429]

That really is quite amazing.  I know I can't account for it.  I doubt I'll ever be able to play like that.

[Jill Sparrow 10,305]

#106

 

I suspect there is something in your suggestion, Michael. Sometimes, it is as though certain people are just remembering what they already know.

 

[Chulla 4,946]

#106. Not believing in the afterlife I do not think that the little girl  has been on this earth previously. But, who knows, her talent might have descended via DNA. Even if her parents are not musical, could be that someone earlier in the family was and the talent has lain dormant in the DNA for many years before being revived. 

[MargieH 7,600]

"All these worlds are yours except Europa.  Attempt no landings there".  (2010 Odyssey Two 1982 - words 'spoken' by HAL).  So are they going to ignore Arthur C Clarke's warning?

[MargieH 7,600]

Found this on Facebook this afternoon.  Thought it was amusing .... didn't know where to post it but thought this place might be appropriate...

[Willow wilson 894]

Wednesday's musings.

I read recently a book by a mathematician who informed me that there are 2 infinities. One is a knowable infinity derived from integers and the other an unknowable infinity derived from irrational numbers. I was wondering, is the universe aware of our system of numbering things and processing these numbers by maths and formulae. It does its thing without an instruction manual. It's not read our books. Or maybe the manual is the material.

Apparently modern computers have identified the first 10 billion or so prime numbers but we haven't yet derived a formula to predict subsequent prime numbers starting from anywhere in the series. Are prime numbers relevant to the universe or an abstract invention. A scientist will say, that's near enough but a mathematician will say no, it's got to be perfect. (So I'm told).

What interests me is that the universe built itself without reference to our mathematics or theories. What we call laws of nature are laws of humans constructed from observations & which give us a good basis for predicting things. When we say "why this" we investigate but the results more often pushes the ultimate solution another step away from us. The universe leads and we follow. I wonder if it's playing with us like we would play with a kitten or a fish on a line.

We are stardust, we are golden.

We are billion year old carbon.

 

(Stardust, Crosby, Stills, Nash.)

[MargieH 7,600]

Interesting thoughts and ideas, Willow Wilson.  (I believe the universe didn't build itself, though!)

Some of your ideas made me think of a simple analogy - our bodies.  They functioned long before we knew all the intricacies of how they worked and before any textbooks were written.  Maybe that isn't quite the same as the Universe stuff  but I  thought I'd just share it.  I, too, am fascinated by prime numbers btw.

[Jill Sparrow 10,305]

20 minutes ago, Willow wilson said:

an unknowable infinity derived from irrational numbers. 

Anyone who was taught (and I use the term extremely loosely) mathematics by Mrs Davey at The  Manning School knows all about numbers being unknowable and irrational. If you were unfortunate enough to get double maths with the Irish peril, you knew what infinity felt like an'all! 

[colly0410 1,181]

Think it was in New Scientist that they said "there is an infinite  number of infinities!"  Been trying to get my brain round that one. Going bigger common sense tells you it's infinite, but going smaller you seem to stop at electrons & quarks. If you try to go smaller I suspect you go into the realms of pure energy as predicted by E=MC2. But maybe if you go smaller still the energy could turn back to matter by some strange quantum effect we don't yet know about. How we'd ever find out about these things to prove they happen I have zero clue... 

[Oztalgian 3,278]

Ah! but what about the Infinite Improbability Drive in Douglas Adams's Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. 

Whatever you do Don't Panic

[PeverilPeril 3,281]

Just read a novel 'Dark Matter'  by Blake Crouch. The central character is a scientist and there are billions of him with slight differences.

In the writers world of infinities, locations and time lines are constant. Convenient for a novel.

Mrs PP bought the book in Stafford for me to read on the plane to Chicago. I started to read the book a week later in Saugatuck on the other side of Lake Michigan. Unbeknown to Mrs PP the story was based in Chicago and we had just left places that were described in the book. Bad things happened  in derelict industrial sites that we had seen when motoring south from Chicago. It made the novel seem real and chilling. Quite uncanny!

[Compo 10,328]

9 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

Ah! but what about the Infinite Improbability Drive in Douglas Adams's Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. 

Whatever you do Don't Panic

 

...and don't forget your towel!

[Willow wilson 894]

On 20/09/2017 at 5:39 PM, MargieH said:

Interesting thoughts and ideas, Willow Wilson.  (I believe the universe didn't build itself, though!)

Some of your ideas made me think of a simple analogy - our bodies.  They functioned long before we knew all the intricacies of how they worked and before any textbooks were written.  Maybe that isn't quite the same as the Universe stuff  but I  thought I'd just share it.  I, too, am fascinated by prime numbers btw.

Marcus du Sautoy, "The Music of the Primes" is my current re-read, 300 pages but also includes short biographies of  mathematicians of the last few centuries. There are other books.

 

With regard to ourselves I guess we are all a bit of the universe and at the same time privileged observers of it. But I'm straying into the subject of consciousness there so I'll stop.

[Willow wilson 894]

On 20/09/2017 at 5:49 PM, Jill Sparrow said:

Anyone who was taught (and I use the term extremely loosely) mathematics by Mrs Davey at The  Manning School knows all about numbers being unknowable and irrational. If you were unfortunate enough to get double maths with the Irish peril, you knew what infinity felt like an'all! 

............feeling the pathos.

[MargieH 7,600]

Willow Wilson, I've just bought the kindle edition of 'The Music of the Primes'  to read on my iPad.  There's no pictures on it, though - hope that won't be a problem?

[colly0410 1,181]

I've just had a thought: If aliens the size of mice have landed on earth & made first contact with a cat, & the cat ate them - we'd never know would we?

[Jill Sparrow 10,305]

I'll ask Tarquin, Colly. Caught him with a dead mouse a couple of weeks ago. He didn't eat it though! 

[Willow wilson 894]

8 hours ago, MargieH said:

Willow Wilson, I've just bought the kindle edition of 'The Music of the Primes'  to read on my iPad.  There's no pictures on it, though - hope that won't be a problem?

It's got a couple of tricky looking formulae in it, maybe you'll understand them, I don't, but apart from that I'm sure you'll enjoy it.