Chulla's Quantum Conjecture

[PeverilPeril 3,153]

I guess Dellboy is just as much in the dark as most physicists are on these matters; the only difference being that he won't lose any sleep over it

[colly0410 1,180]

Been reading that when (if?) quantum computing finally gets going it will start to grow at an exponential rate & turn into a sort of mega Moore's law. I wonder what will be discovered when QC takes off? Could we crack controlled nuclear fusion & solve the cheap clean energy problem?

I'm a bit scared they will become cleverer than us & evolve emotions, & if one of them gets the monk-on it decides to destroy us. We'd be powerless to do owt, as it would probably shut down all the power stations it controls..

[tomlinson 879]

No problem. Just smack 'em one with your abacus.

[Chulla 4,946]

Thought it was time I added more fuel to this topic's fire. Strap yourself down tight; sleepless nights ahead for some, maybe, but there again some might be in the land of nod before they finish reading it. We have 'discussed' quantum mechanics in the usual manner of infinitely small particles. But does it also apply to non-material things, like, for instance, our memory? Walking, reaching, gripping etc, are all naturally-occurring actions that we all never think about. Just natural reactions, we might say. Yes, but what triggered them, and more to the point, what sent instructions to your hands, fingers or whatever, to move in the manner you wanted them to, and by sufficient amount, pressures, directions, etc? Here is an example of what I am talking about.

A person plays the piano (could be any instrument, but let's say a piano). Over the years he/she has learned how to read and understand musical notation. All this has been stored in the memory ready for when it is required. To try and keep the following example as understandable as possible, I will not have the person playing a length of music, but just a couple of chords.

First of all a particular chord is chosen. The pianist knows that it consists of, say, four notes and knows which of the keys need to be depressed. All this is straight-forward memory, easy to recall. he/she decides to play the chord and when to do so. Something triggers the first movement - what? The brain then tells the arm to move toward the keyboard just sufficiently to allow for the fingers to reach the keys and then stop. It then tells the wrist to move and then each of the fingers to curve down sufficiently and then they and the wrist are positioned correctly to apply the required pressure to play the chord softly or loudly - the brain's memory knows this and instructs the fingers accordingly.

The next chord is at the other end of the keyboard, and a similar set of instructions is sent to the right hand fingers and wrist, and the arm is instructed to travel sufficiently to the right so as to allow fingers to reach the keys (I can hear snoring). It could be that the pianist does all this without looking at the keyboard, and therefore the brain, through experience, has remembered how far arm, wrist and fingers need to move to hit the keys without hitting the cracks between them. These movement changes go on ad infinitum and become beyond comprehension when one images what is happening with brain and movement co-ordination when piano is played very fast. All the instructions are still available, awaiting recall, and the speed of knowledge computation and physical action does make one wonder if quantum something or other is responsible.

When playing continuously the brain has to assemble the notes required, in their successive order, along with the tempo and volume, and then send the instructions to the player. The brain has many tunes stored, but it knows how to recall the notes that the pianist wished to play. It's no use saying 'It's just instinct'. Instinct doesn't formulate instructions and send them at incredible speeds to where they are required and put into action. Every single movement of our body has been instructed, usually without us realising it.

There is always a fly in the ointment. A one-hour old baby might see something and reach out for it and grasp it. It's brain is too young to have had any experience to register in its memory and instruct it. Its eyes saw it but its brain told it to reach out and how to. Is there a missing element that we know nothing about. I wonder, whatever it is does it eventually switch off and cause us to die?

People have been awarded PhDs for less profound thinking LOL.

[BeestonMick 263]

Chulla, I have no real comment, your first post is exactly correct in it's supposition, everything about us is a matter of perspective. There are many interesting subjects on similar things (if you're interested that is) wave partical duality, atomic causality, remote atom-atom entanglement etc. and so it goes on. We're waiting for the PhD's to master quantum so we can take the next stage in computer technology, we're pretty much at a standstill at the moment as we've reached the boundaries of what silicon can do.

If I'd been born in 1985 I would have stuck to my schooling and become a physicist, I find the whole subject of quantum mechanics and physics fascinating.

[tomlinson 879]

'Myself when young did eagerly frequent

Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument

About it and about: but evermore

Came out by the same door where in I went'.

Omar Khayyam

[colly0410 1,180]

Think I read in New Scientist or Scientific American (read them both online) that the silicon age is coming to an end & the quantum age will take over. They speculate it will be as big a leap as when transistors took over from valves (for some things) in the 50/60's. There will be people who say "what use will quantum computing be?" But they said the same about transistors & lasers years ago, & look how useful they are now..

[BeestonMick 263]

I read in New Scientist or Scientific American (read them both online) that the silicon age is coming to an end & the quantum age will take over. They speculate it will be as big a leap as when transistors took over from valves

Correct - I'd say even bigger.

If I can try and explain one thing I understand about the effect it will have on computing and electronics in general. In a chip electrons (the flow of electricity/information) is passed down channels. To make things go quicker the distance between these channels has to be made smaller, the less distance the electrons have to flow the quicker the transfer is. We are at the stage where we are about as far ahead with this as far as silicon goes, the next move is quantum sub atomics. One of the issues with quantum is, if you throw a tennis ball at a wall, for example, you know exactly how it will return to you, it will come back, this is the law of 'our' nature. When you do something similar with quantum sub atomics the ball may pass right through the wall or even end up in Australia (atom entanglement) at the moment we don't know how to control electron flow at the quantum level. Once we do, look out, the quantum oyster will be ours. Once in to the quantum world you have to totally forget Newton and Einstein 'cos nowt works like it does in our 'normal world'.

[radfordred 6,278]

I have a dilemma, I attended the Radford reunion at the Pheasant last night I arrived at 5.30ish, I was given quite a lot of raffle tickets from people who had been there all day, it was drawn at 9ish, Mrs Red this morning thinks I've robbed an off-license on the way home, I have a bottle of Captain Morgan, Smirrnoff, Grouse & some the fizzy wine everyone's drinking Pesheco or sumit? Gave the chocolates to a chubby gal, what should I do? 

[plantfit 7,084]

Get the chocolates back

 

Rog

[Jill Sparrow 9,568]

Nice to know The Pheasant is still going. It was one of my father's favourite pubs in the 70s and I can remember drinking Babycham in there at Christmas, underage!!  

[PeverilPeril 3,153]

Writing story line for my daughter (based on Wizard Oscar stories I told my children in the 70's) One of the key points in time is when quantum computers were integrated within the human brain C2060. The next key moment was when a quantum/nuclear accident happened 11 years later in a secret underground establishment in the US  Year Q1 replaced year 2072.

[plantfit 7,084]

Phew,don't time fly?

 

Rog

[PeverilPeril 3,153]

Yes - when things had settled down after year Q1 the Earth days became shorter and Earth year longer. Tilt, spin and orbit had been affected.

[plantfit 7,084]

Read somewhere that Einstein thought up his theory of relativity while out on his bike,is this where your inspirations come from PP,I think of lots of things when I'm out on my trike

 

Rog

[loppylugs 8,336]

#79.  I know you probably won't go for this Dave but I think it bears thinking about.  Does the Soul have anything to do with all of this?

Think of a car.  Capable of high speeds, turning corners, carrying weights etc etc.. But useless until a driver gets in turns it on and starts to make decisions about its directions.

 

likewise with your musical analogy. Who or what even decides what constitutes music.  We can see a small child at his first time on a piano.  Random bangings on different random notes 'til we want to tell them to stop.  What is musical sense?  Most folks have different tastes but why does one prefer Beethoven and another hate that and prefer Billy Joel.  A computer has no preferences.

The physical process involved in striking a key is important but what makes us even want to or even go to the trouble of building a piano in the first place?

[Chulla 4,946]

#91. A bit too deep for me, Loppy, My explanation was about the physical side of playing, not what was being played. In my view, music is  notes that, when compared with the adjacent notes, make a likeable sense in the listener's brain. Bashing away randomly on the keys would not give you the same pleasure.

[Jill Sparrow 9,568]

#91

 

Wouldn't it have been fascinating to have this discussion with Mr Gould, Loppy? He'd be your ideal dinner guest, even if all he ate were arrowroot biscuits! What an intellect!

[Chulla 4,946]

Sorry Jill, but if Glen's dinner table talk was as boring as the music he played, Chulla would be long gone.

[Jill Sparrow 9,568]

#94

 

That's ok, Chulla. Einstein can have your chair!  

[Chulla 4,946]

I've already doubted his theory of relativity, could be that he is wrong about the Goldberg Variations as well.

[PeverilPeril 3,153]

Going deaf and having music stolen from me was like shredding a piece of my soul. Music is so important and essential to human existence. Even when the secrets of quantum theory are revealed and understood, music will retain it's mysteries.

[Jill Sparrow 9,568]

You may have heard the story that Einstein played the violin in his spare time and was a friend of the Polish pianist, Artur Rubinstein. The two sometimes played duets but, on one occasion, they were practising a piece which Einstein found taxing and he kept bringing in the violin too early. Rubinstein, who wasn't known for his patience, remonstrated with his scientific friend and explained that he should not begin to play until a certain point in a certain bar. They began once more and Einstein yet again brought in the violin too early. Exasperated, Rubinstein jumped off the piano stool and was heard to yell: "For God's sake, Albert! Can't you count?"

 

A true story, apparently!  

[benjamin1945 15,477]

PP #97.............That really touched me Terry,.....we take so many things for granted.............i love all sorts of music,without great knowledge of any particular Genre'.............Music can lift your mood............make you happy or sad and sometimes both at the same time,.....and i really admire 'musicians'..........what a sad world it would be without Music

[loppylugs 8,336]

Can't disagree with your thinking on the mechanical processes involved in hitting a note.  I don't know enough about it.

 

Interesting story about Einstein, Jill.  I find counting to be one of the most difficult aspects of music.  Trying to count 1 e and a 2 e and a etc.. While trying to maintain control of which finger number I am using defeats me quite often and the piece falls to bits.  I often get  away with it because I've loved and known a piece for years and can keep time without counting.  My teacher sometimes catches me on it and makes me count, that gets interesting.  Lol.  Our old music teacher at school once defined music as "a series of tones that make musical sense."  Problem becomes when what seems musical sense to one does not to another. Some of today's modern composers don't make much sense to me and I'm not just digging at rock n roll.  What produces a J.S Bach as compared to a schoenberg?  Both composers but the latter not to my taste.

 

I bet those moggies can make a happy sound if they get on a keyboard eh?

 

I suppose the bottom line of all this is one's approach.  Are we simply trying to describe mechanical processes or the underlying spiritual component that motivates them.

 

Please understand, my thinking is not to just steer the thread to a 'religious' direction.  One's underlying tastes direct everything from our work to a choice of life partner or foods we like or don't like.  A machine / computer, no matter how sophisticated is oblivious to such matters.  A small child has more sense of such things than the best computer.