Recommended Posts

I don,t know if this is the correct place to put this but we have put several lads through apprenticeships at local colleges, on motor tech courses and they have all excelled,but non of them have been shown any even basic heating welding and cutting, and no machine shop skills.I asked the college assessor about this and he told me that with modern cars there is no call for these skills,they all tell me that the other students on their courses are amazed that we give them all a grounding in these skills ,Are other industries leaving behind old skills as in plumbing ,leadwork brazing etc or do they never come across this sort of work anymore,?

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I agree completly 'peveral' despite me having none of the 'skills ive mentioned,ive survived thru lots of lifes set backs,i'll be 70 in about a month and like most of us have lived thru ups and downs,

I always wanted to be an apprentice layabout when I left school I am now fully qualified after 50 years & enjoying the fruits of my labours.

If I have any issues with my new car I'm coming straight to you guys Swe62 and Scriv. And I agree LoppyLugs... I've got my degree but doubt I'll ever be able to put it to serious good use. Uni was a

Does not surprise me one bit. My son-in-law is a Ford technician, and a very good one too; but it was me who showed him how to fabricate a gasket with a small ball pein hammer and an old cornflake packet.

i served my apprenticeship in the Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers as a mechanic; don't practise my trade for a living any more but all the skills I was taught have come in useful for one thing or another.Still got the adjustable spanner I made when I was 16 and it still works too!

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always been a big believer in apprenticeship. No offense meant to any here who may have been through college, but I think a lot of kids are sent off to college to get some kind of Mickey mouse degree that only gets them a job at Macdonalds. Went back to school and got a degree myself, but that was for a specific purpose and after many good years in the electrical trade.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was an hairdresser apprentice and was taught finger waving, pin curls and how to make wigs, I had to do 3 years apprenticeship 2 years as an improver then after 5 years you were a qualified stylist. Later I owned two salons, then after having some trainees in my salon I took my 730/7 teachers certificate and taught at college. I never thought after I finished finger waving in 1960s that I would be teaching it to my students 80s.

Apprenticeships are a good thing but the industry must keep up with the times, in the 80/90s no one was having finger waves has blow drying had come into hairdressing.

When going to have my hair styled I like to ask the trainee what she has been learning at college, it seems that every thing is changing again as it is now done in modules the trainee has a choice she can take a module in Perming, shampooing or Reception but not all now where is the sense in that. I could understand if the subjects were on the same lines but they are all completely different.

I don't want to see finger waving come back, but come on City & Guilds use your common sense. At least we got rid of the YTS. and have gone back to apprenticeships.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but just had to put this down!

We are now in the common market yet if we/I take my qualifications over to Germany France etc they are not recognised now is it not time for all the country's in Europe to get there heads together and make all qualifications the same for us all.

When the MPs come knocking on your door put this question to them I did once and the MP did not have an answer.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If I have any issues with my new car I'm coming straight to you guys Swe62 and Scriv.

And I agree LoppyLugs... I've got my degree but doubt I'll ever be able to put it to serious good use. Uni was an amazing accomplishment but I don't think it was worth it generally.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Melissa

what you did was amazing so be proud of your self. I did not get my teaching 730/7 till I reached the grand old age of 40 I wish I had been able to go to UNI.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I did an OND (ordinary national diploma) in hotel, catering and institutional management at college, instead of an HND (Higher...etc etc) as I didn't get the A levels required (too busy having fun in the 6th form!!) The OND did much more practical experience than the HND course and paid dividends for me.

During my work experience between terms, I worked at the Savoy hotel in Nottingham in their grill bar along with an HND student. I made a small fortune, to me, in tips whereas the HND student lost that much in customers leaving without paying, simply because she wasn't on the ball and had not had any training at college in the skills needed for waitressing.

Several years later when I went for a job at the Black Boy (on Market Street) as Senior Assistant Manager I got the job over an HND trained applicant because I had been trained in a more practical way.

I always thought it was a scandal when so many apprenticeships were scrapped, as many skills would be lost. It is good that someone saw sense and replaced the yots with the more practical apprenticeships again. Though modern cars may not need welding jobs, what about the older cars that are still on the road? There is still a need for the old skills.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Similar thing in the aircraft industry. When I was in the RAF we stripped and serviced down to component level. After leaving the service and joining KLM a colleague there went to Seattle on a 737 course. In learning avionics, the instructor told them, 'This is the xxxx box. it sits on shelf 3 in the Avionics Bay and works just fine'. When asked what was in the box and how it worked they were told, 'If I you needed to be told that, you would change the whole servicing policy of the aircraft. If the box gives a warning message, change it and the faulty item goes back to the manufacturer for repair'. It is a fact of the digital world. I often wonder with all our dependence on 'gissmos' whether with the decreasing interest in technology we'll suddenly go in reverse when the machine breaks.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Towards the end of my apprenticeship, the NCB started bringing in practical trades tests, due to young mechs and elecs coming out their time and being useless as practical tradesmen. The NCB had put too much emphasis on the tech college theory than practical side.

When the four year apprenticeships were introduced, the first year, which was mechanical and electrical, workshop/mining etc was abolished. I'd done blacksmithing, turning, welding etc and passed that side in written exams as well as practical. We used to say, what use is this crap to electricians?

Was the best training I ever had.

When I was a shift electrician down Boulby Mine, we had a new elec join our shift, Boulby was a privately owned mine, big undertaking, and the new elec broke down under production pressures, he couldn't do the job practically..Ex NCB with only a couple of years under his belt in a colliery.

TBH, I never noticed any pressure, I just went with the flow, so to speak, I must thrive under pressure!

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Car components aren't repaired these days only replaced. In my apprentice days every component was overhauled & repaired, nowadays they are just replaced with new. Vehicle diagnostics are now done by a computer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

#1 further to my post one of the other reasons for not training on welding was,health and safety, and yet they teach welding processes on the body work courses,The other bad side was that we told that "you can pay them a lot less than the minimum wage if they are apprenticed" which made me boil ,my philosophy is to pay a lad on his merits all of our lads have been well paid passed their ata,s etc and stayed with the company mates of mine tell me we are lucky to have found such committed and hard working lads ! I personally think we have made our own luck by treating them properly.incidentally we still pay for ongoing specialised training through various trade bodies just to keep in front of the rapidly advancing technology. T hanks for looking ,Steve

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

catfan#12 sorry to disagree a bit but the computer will produce a code, but its up to the technician too interpret the problem ,i.e. if a Mercedes posts a code saying no1 lambda sensor out of range , you would probably change the front lambda sensor ,but generally it is the air mass meter that is delivering bad info to the engine electronic control unit ,causing the lambda sensor to not have enough range to alter the fuel trim and flagging the code for the lambda sensor,

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there still metal work and wood work shops in Schools? Are there still training kitchens and dressmaking classes?

That was where the interests and some basic skills were learnt and usually gave the more practical students some ideas about a career. I really liked metal work at school and that lead me to applying for an engineering apprenticeship. Even for the more academic kids those basic skills would always underpin the higher/theoretical education.

Most kids were not totally useless when they left school in those days. Those basic skills remain with us all our lives regardless of what we end up doing for a living.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me that if we were somehow forced back to a more none tech standard of living by an EMP or solar flare event, they'd have to dig us old dogs out of retirement ti fix things up again😉.

I have lamented this throw away society for a while now. Can,t replace an element in a kettle or iron. Too expensive so toss it in the trash. Then we are told we are ruining the environment.

I too enjoyed woodwork and metalwork classes in secondary school. Learned skills that were useful in all areas of life.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I did metal work in the first year at school, but chose woodworking for the latter three years.

I also wonder how the world will go on if an enemy or terrorists destroy our electrical grid, or worse, a huge solar flare wipes out all modern technology.

I can work with wood, as I have a full set of woodworking hand tools and the knowledge to use them, BUT, I'd miss me power tools, which make life a lot easier.

Been years since I cut a dovetail joint by hand, can't beat the Leigh dovetail jig, router with dovetail bits, quick and accurate.

But I'd manage, whereas there's a generation out there that only knows computer games, cell phones and wouldn't have a clue as how to survive.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive never been riveted by brake linings,or woodworking with hand tools,or even by leigh and router dovetail joints,but ive managed,i know nowt about high tec computers or cell phones,but i manage,

So if there is a 'solar flare event' (whatever that is) i'll speak to one of you who know about these things,so i'm sure i'll still manage. :)

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as you can still manage to tie your tie benjamin !!!!!! LOL

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

#20 peveral.................you'd get a ist class cuppa

#21 BR.........................And i'd look the part when i served it

#22 stephen.................too high tec.................... :biggrin:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Too many folk look the part. Too few folk can actually do.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brake linings are bonded to the shoe these days, aren't they?? Most cars these days have disk brakes.

Ben, it would have to be a very large Solar Mass Ejection, (SME) to cause disruption on earth, X5 plus flare. I used to monitor the suns activity when I was an active "ham", still licensed, just don't have any antennas in the air at the moment.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...