The Engineer 614 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Saw today's news item - GCSE students complaining about 'difficult' maths question. It was in a GCSE Higher Tier paper. It involved a bit of probability, juggling simple algebraic equations and solving a quadratic equation (I'm implying it was easy for that level). The question (paraphrased): Hannah has a bag of sweets. Six of them are orange, the rest are yellow. She takes two sweets and they are both orange. The chance of that was 1/3. Show that n squared - n - 90 = 0. Solve this equation to find n. Eng Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Engineer: my son here in Tipperary had maths (paper 1) today- his gripe and the country is "project maths". This has not been taught in his sylabus for over a year but was heavily prevalent today !! Germany dropped this after one year.To be fair his exam should reflect what was taught in the classroom. PS:thanks for everything you did with the water clock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ah, Project Maths: Project Maths is an exciting, dynamic development in Irish education. It involves empowering students to develop essential problem-solving skills for higher education and the workplace by engaging teenagers with mathematics set in interesting and real-world contexts. Sounds like what I would call Applied Mathematics (as opposed to Pure Mathematics). I agree with you though, the examination should only include material that has been taught. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MelissaJKelly 2,120 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I remember having to do these kind of questions in exams during my GCSE's and reading that question now, I haven't the faintest idea where to start in solving it. I remembered what I needed to, it's not likely I'm ever going to need to know the probability of picking a coloured sweet in an algebraic format! Having said this, it's surprising how awful my mental arithmetic is compared to my Mum's, and I'm convinced it's because we spent far too much time being taught things like algebra which aren't very useful in day to day life. I say they should take it back to basics. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mercurydancer 1,104 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I have never been mathematically minded. Never stopped me in much at all. The answer - 1. Take the bag of sweets from Hannah. 2. Count them. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Didn't Michael post a fact a while ago that he'd got through another day without using algebra? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MelissaJKelly 2,120 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Alternatively MercuryDancer, eat them and tell Hannah to stop being so pedantic! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I often need mathematics, but that's engineering for you! Not so much algebra, usually just arithmetic and maybe trigonometry. I've pretty much forgotten calculus and other higher level stuff. My son and I do a bit of maths 'sparring' from time to time; keeps us both on our toes. The answer was ten sweets by the way. Chance of first orange one was 6/10. Chance of second orange one was 5/9. Chance of two orange ones was therefore 6/10 x 5/9 = 30/90 = 1/3. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MargieH 7,599 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I love algebra - it was always my favourite part of Maths, and I thought the questions mentioned were quite reasonable for that level. Now, Chemistry, that's what I find difficult - probably because we had to choose whether to go for Languages or Sciences at the end of the second year and I chose Languages. Was allowed to keep Biology, though, which I liked. I admit I don't use algebra much in 'real life' although it comes in handy for solving some puzzles but I just love it for some reason - it's almost 'beautiful'! Now you KNOW I'm strange!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheTramp 139 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 This problem is a bit like the last fashionable one about somebodies birthday, I just know I could solve it if only the buggers asked the question in clear English! To be fair though, a question like this, sprung by surprise in an exam would be a head stunner, can only be solved in a quiet room, no pressure, enough time or during a walk through the fields. But the solution is still not the answer, the answer demanded how it could all be demonstrated! Lots of examinees moaning on facebook, does anyone know of a student that cracked it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Been so many years since I did algebra, I haven't a clue where to start. Melissa, probably the reason why your Mum is good at mental arithmetic is she played darts in her youth, it's amazing how we could add and subtract so quickly after playing darts for a few years. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Booth 7,364 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 You beat me to it, Ayupmeducks. The odd times I'll have a game of darts I can do the scoring instantly. At Trent Bridge Senior Boys School I learnt mathematical stuff like algebra and logarithm but it was only the basic maths I learnt that I've needed throughout my life. Who uses algebra and logarithm today?. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mick2me 3,033 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 In mid 60s Humpries, TB Maths teacher introduced some kind of new ways of learning maths in book form? You were given books which developed your knowledge of a branch of maths. As you worked your way through it it got more complex and included multiple choice answers. What was this called? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 In my long life I have never once needed to use algebra or any other advanced form of calculation. I can reckon-up mentally up to a certain degree and after that with pencil and paper. For the big stuff I use a calculator - that's what they are there for, to say time. I fully understand that there are people who do need to use the clever stuff, but most of us have no need. As has been said, marking at darts is a great way to learn, especially during matches when everyone is looking at you. Another great way of learning how to reckon-up was in the days of pounds, shillings and pence - 12 to the shilling and 20 to the pound. It was easy - honest! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carni 10,094 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I agree Chulla. Even though I left school and never went into any kind of carreer, I have never really needed anything other than the use of "Mental Arithmatic" which is a good job, because it was about the only one I mastered. (Not bad at it as well) I even improved with that whilst running my "Beer Off" for nine years, and other "Butcher shop counter assistant jobs" afterwards, and as you say, I use paper and pencil or calculater for bigger things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,457 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Here's the BBC answer to the original question. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33023123 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I remember my maths books- they were Beta mathematics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 614 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 The BBC solution showed that n2 - n - 90 = 0 but it didn't go on to solve the equation to find n. For the curious among you, here's how: The equation is called quadratic meaning it can be written in the generic form of ax2 + bx + c = 0 (we tend to use x for the unknown but for this problem where they used n, we could say an2 + bn + c = 0). The first approach to finding the value of n is called 'solving by inspection', which means you look at the values of a, b and c to see whether the solution is obvious. In this case inspection works: we need two numbers that equal b (-1) when added but also equal c (-90) when multiplied together. These numbers (by inspection) are -10 and 9. We can then write the equation out like this: (n - 10) x (n + 9) = 0 (mathematicians wouldn't normally write the x but I included it for clarity). If two things make zero when multiplied, one or the other must also be zero so there are two possible solutions: 1: (n - 10) = 0, which means n = 10 2: (n + 9) = 0, which means n = -9 This is a real world problem (not imaginary) so we rule out a bag with -9 sweets (6 orange and -15 yellow). The answer must therefore be 10 sweets (6 orange and 4 yellow). That was the easy way. If inspection doesn't work, we use this formula for solving quadratic equations: (-b ± Ö(b2 - 4ac)) / 2a If you put 1, -1 and -90 in for a, b and c the same answers pop out, -9 and 10. Engineer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Booth 7,364 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yep, that's how you do it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ayupmeducks 1,730 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Pre calculator days, I had to take a set of log tables to work when I had to test cables at British Gypsum, the law allowed a maximum leakage to earth due to insulation getting lower in ohmiv value, as we didn't have an engineer, we had to test the cable, work out the allowable insulation value, if it wasn't satisfactory, we had to remedy it on the spot, ie find out why, if it was cable damage, find it and repair, if it was a plug, cut it off and terminate the the cable end again with a new plug. So needed log tables. That was the only time in my working career I used any maths apart from Ohms Law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
catfan 14,793 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 This quetion is much more easier simpler to solve than you think. Take the bag of sweets away from her & give her a bleddy Mars Bar ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.