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I found a map of some of the pow camps in Notts. Sorry i couldn't get a very clear webcam picture (i wasn't able to do a screen shot as the printscreen doesn't seem to work), so the names are written out below. I could not find any way to attach file/photo so i had to upload it to a site and put link here ( www.freewebs.com/lifetradition/032839.jpg ). I have added a few other camps that people here mentioned, and a few from other sources.

pow camps Notts:
carlton Hall
carburton
norton
nether Headon
boughton
rufford Abbey
wollaton Park
nottingham
raf Langer
tollerton Hall
bunny Park

source: the state and the country house in notts 1937-67
by Matthew Kempson 2006.

It looks like Wollaton Park is the most likely (since it is the only closest one to (Hucknall or) Trowell or Underwood where my grandmother was), unless the camp was in Derbyshire across border. (Watnall was German not Italian?)

032839.jpg

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Found it. This is 1950s. I can't zoom in enough to keep it sharp, but that says Laurel House. The curve in the main road is recognisable in modern maps for the village of Underwood. On some later m

The Haslam name is interesting David. That's the maiden name of the person in the London Gazette

I lived next door to the POW camp at Rufford Abbey - there was only a rickety garden fence separating us. I would be about 5 at the time (1947 ish). The POWs were all Italian as far as I know and live

I've only 'skim read' this thread, but just thought I'd mention this.

There was a P.O.W. camp at Bestwood (Which is very different to Underwood) and which I am led to believe housed Italian P.O.W.s It was in the area bounded by Southglade Road, Padstow Road and St Matthew's Church on this map.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Padstow+Rd,+Nottingham,+Nottinghamshire+NG5+5GH/@52.9968163,-1.1713479,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x4879c1b4c98817f7:0xa33db9ba46ee89d0?hl=en

Col

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Thankyou DJ360 for that new one.

Thanks for the awesome picture Cliff Ton.

Only the red dots in the map are camps. The 3 blue dots on my map are not camps but the 3 places where my grandmother lived from 1942 to 1947.
I may have got one or more dots wrong. Wikipedia says Bestwood is east of Hucknall and north of Bulwell, but when i plot the dot on the map it is southeast of Hucknall and ENE of Bulwell ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestwood_Village, Bestwood seems to be right in middle of my Bulwell tag string-line). (So let me know if any dots are wrong, as it may change what camp is or is not the most likely one.)

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  • 1 month later...

Arthur Robin

As your grandparents were brethren have you thought about contacting any religious social clubs? I mean Italian ones in the area where they lived. There seemed at one time a lot of italian centres run by priests. Some of the elders may know something . Its a long shot but who knows. I personally only know of one and thats The Italian centre on Sherwood Rise if its still there but no doubt there are others further afield.

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Just looked on ancestry.it there are a lot of Petrucci's but notknowing name or anything else I can't help. I've let my membership slide so I can't look at anything. I have 169 messages waiting for me.!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I lived next door to the POW camp at Rufford Abbey - there was only a rickety garden fence separating us. I would be about 5 at the time (1947 ish). The POWs were all Italian as far as I know and lived in wooden huts/Nissan huts. They were very friendly and wandered about mainly unsupervised and would talk to us over the fence. We used to steel over when they were not watching and pinch their coal (mainly coke I think) for our fire! Fuel was short. Not sure when the camp closed.

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Thank-you everyone. Sorry for missing the recent replies - sometimes i dont visit the forum much like when i'm busy, or if this and other forum threads seem slow/disinterested, or if i forget, or net connection troubles (i only have dialup and xp).

Thankyou Nonna, yes I had wondered about if there were any Brethren organisations (and/or Italian organisations) or people in Trowell or Underwood that might be able to help or know something, but i wasn't really sure how to find out. (My grandmother and commonly assumed grandfather were Brethren, the p.o.w. was Italian. I don't know whether the Italian pow stayed or was repatriated.) Its a good idea, i will have to try find out how to contact Italian ones there.

The Petrucci name turned-out to be just a blind guess of mother looking through phone book when she was in Notts a few years ago and wondering if that could be it.

A had since thought that there may be possible clue/s that the name was Giovanni.

But now I have just found that my grandmother may have left a morse code (& phonetic alphabet) clue in her memoirs in the relevant place & time. The code is possibly:

.,. = .-. = R = either Romeo/Roma/Roger/Robert?

However it could be wrong, it could just be a typing/writing mistake.
I am waiting to find out what date she wrote the memoirs. Does Annswabey and/or anyone else know how well known the uk/us/nato phonetic alphabet was known before ~1973?

I still have'nt heard back from the Red Cross restoring families. I have and am trying to be very patient, but I now more suspect that they are messing me around. If so it makes me angry that they didn't even have the decency to just say that they are not able/willing to help (on top of the not being willing/able to help itself (because they force it that we have to have a pow name and they won't give any repatriated Notts pows lists)). Nothing is impossible, but in my "life" so far alot of middle/upper people have certainly always seemed to try to make things extremely difficult. Any list/s of pows would certainly help me &/or my mother work out who the pow may or may not be (without necessarily contacting anyone or violating any privacy) (that is certain as I am an "amatuer" historian who has made at least one or a few or more historical discoveries with similar methods) (compare how the lists of pow camps helped narrow down likely camp/s). But i know that there are annoying privacy laws (similar to how the census is not released until after a 100 years, and to Jack the Ripper papers returned exactly a 100 years later). What use is it to me when everyone (me, my mother, my real grandfather, neighbours, pow camp staff, pow pals, etc) are dead? My grandmother and her sisters are already dead, so is my commonly assumed grandfather, and my mother recently had lung cancer operation. In 30 years i will be 72 if i don't die before then (and if the NWO hasn't gotten even more to bad hell). (That is why i thought about a private investigator, as they might perhaps have privacy-pass to view records/lists.)

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If the Red Cross records are arranged in the same way as the WW1 Red Cross POW records are (fairly recently appeared online), there would be index cards for each individual so without a name they wouldn't be able to go through all of them, although I agree, they should have at least replied to you.

The 1939 Register has also in the last couple of weeks, appeared online, although, in the main, it only lists those born 1915 or earlier. Might be worth a look, to see where they were living in 1939 although it's a bit too early

The fact remains that records of those not proven to be dead, who were born less than 100 years ago are not viewable, unless publically available indexed records, such as Births, Marriages and Deaths and Wills- you still have to pay to see the actual record, of course

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Thank-you Bubblewrap, the site was of good/great use in collating list of Notts pow camps, though two previous people had also given me it too.

Ok thanks Annswabey.
This is not meant as antagonistic to you, this is just my frank opinion of stupid western system ways and rules.

I would have thought that the (Red Cross) Geneva War Archive would have had (or should have) lists of repatriated pows not just individual person files. And even if it is arranged that way *and computer/online* then one should be able to "search" for words like Italian and Nottingham and camp name and date etc. Any proper library/database/etc has at least 2 different indexes/catalogues like by name and by field/subject/group. If not on purpose then it at least is accidental favouritism for only people who know names. If one doesn't have a name then we have no or limited way to find-out without lists etc.

That fact that I didn't see it said that we "have to have a camp name or no list of pow camps" is proof of my point. (Though the twits say that they don't even have a full proper list/record of uk/shire pow camps.)

I don't think it is fair/right that only availiable after a 100 years or only if person proven dead. My maternal grandmother is dead, my commonly assumed maternal grandfather is dead, (so are my paternal grandparents,) so it is very likely that the pow is dead. In other words they don't give a stuff if i "live" all my "life" and die without ever knowing who my real maternal grandfathers family was.

The Red Cross arm name should therefore be "restoring **dead**/named war/crisis "families"".

BMD is no use since the affair was an unofficial unrecorded brief affair. Unless the certs of my mother & aunt/uncle give a living address (to try find any neighbours who might know something).

(Even if the pow gave my grandmother a name it could have been fake? I also don't know for sure whether he stayed or was repatriated. I also can't be totally sure whether the pow or Edwards is my real grandfather, though there seems alot of evidence now that the pow is real grandfather.)

This is Britains fault for being (suspisiously) so lax with its POWs, and being (suspiciously) so lax in not having their own proper records of pows/camps. And my grandmothers & grandfathers fault for stuipid affair (and coming to miserable nz). And both sides fault for the war.

I am sick of this NWO's regimes rules/laws always being against us and never for us.

I have no problem paying for it if i am actually paying for something worthwhile that i need/want. (Though i still think they charge rip off charges for certs etc.)
Most official people only care about themselves &/or money.

I can only hope that my grandmother left a clue/code to the pows name.

The only other possible hope is genetic test to find genetic relations, but that seems to me dubious at the present stage of advancement, and i don't have the condition/health and situation to be able to do that (esp as they don't have that sort of testing here in miserible NZ) (and i aren't comfortible giving some stranger my dna/genetic info).

If only i was in Nottinghamshire or UK, then i would be able to visit the places and have far more/better resources. Doing this from miserable NZ is difficult enough. But the UK scraped the reciprocal benefits agreement between NZ & UK (yet they still have one with Israel!) And they only go by father not mother for british passport/citizenship. (I still have the right to live and work in uk and i can still apply to "register as a uk citizen" becauise my mother was born in Notts and my paternal grandfather was born in Durham, but i have to have 2 people who are commonwealth citizens who have known me for 3+ years to sign form vouching i am of good character, and depends if uk accept it or reject it. And then i have the problem of finding accomodation and income (work/welfare) in uk with my health disabilities.)

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Thats not true/fair. What is there to work with that i don't want to? I have already said that i will try to get my mother's and my aunty/unlce birthcert when i am able to, to check if it gives a parents living address. There is nothing else. (The few other suggestions people have made like the university book writer, italian clubs etc i also have to chase up if & when i am able to.) I just said i didn't have much good opinion of it, and that my situation & condition/sickness makes it extremly difficult. Its not the same for all. Most people aren't 42 and always been single like i am for example. Not everyone is stuck in miserable small distant NZ. Not everyone was fostered out at 6 until 16. Not everyone doesn't know who their real maternal grandfather is. Not everyone has fluoridated water. Etc. Someone on here (forum not thread) said they had another holiday home else where in UK.

Sorry i just found out from my step-aunty that the "book" was written by "Grandad" Edwards not by my Grandmother Rosalba. So the morse code (& phonetic) is very unlikely (though still faintly possible possibly?) I need to find out if anyone has anything written by my Grandmother or aunties. The only thing i know of so far is letters that my mother has (but which i can't really ask my mother to read them for me to find what i am looking for since the extra curse of lung cancer from God on top of already difficult enough). Surely my grandmother "must" have left some clue/code of the name somewhere or else she didn't care about us.

Its hopeless, I give up, and from this day forward i hate God and all humanity and myself (not just for this not ever being able to know who my real maternal grandfather surname was, but all the other 8 to 42 years of hell suffering). There is no hope in the world/humanity/regime or in myself (or in God after 8 years of trying). "Life" is hard for everyone, and this western regime makes it even harder, but some of us throughout world and history are cursed to suffer worse than others. "One has to bear what the gods deal us".

I will just post the phonetic alphabet variants that i compiled from wikipedia article:

alfa/able/apples/ack/ace/affirm/amsterdam/ana/adam*

bravo/baker/beer/butter/baltimore/brazil/boston

charlie*/casablanca/coca/chicago/cain*

delta/duff/don*/dog/denmark/data/dixie/david*/denver

echo/edward*/edison/easy

fox(trot)/football/fredie*/florida/frank*

golf/gulf/gee/george*/gallipoli

hotel/harry/henry*/how/havana

india/ink/item/interrogatory/italia/ida

juliett/john(ny)*/johnnie/jig/jerusalem

kilo(gramme)/king

lima/love/london/liverpool/lincoln

mike*/monkey/emma/madgascar/metro/mary

november/nuts/nab/negat/nan/newyork/nectar

oscar*/orange(s)/oboe/oslo/ocean

papa/pudding/prep/pip/peter*/paris

quebec/queen(ie)

romeo*/roma/roger*/robert*

sierra/sugar/esses/santiago

tango/tommy/thomas*/toc/tare/tripoli

uniform/uncle/upsala/union

vic(tor)*/vinegar/valencia

whiskey/willie/william*/washington

xray/xerxes/xanthippe/extra

yankee/yellow/yorker/yoke/yokohama/young

zulu/zebra/zurich/zero

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Sorry i just checked and surely my step-aunt is wrong because the 2 pages text is clearly by my grandmother Rosalba not by "granddad" Edwards, since it says things like "Lisle", "he", etc. (I had emailed my uncle to ask if the life story / memoirs gives any date for when written (or the latest/last date in it). But turned out my uncle is away on a mission at present and step-aunt replied.)

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Sorry again, i just have an email reply from step-aunt that "part of it - the part [they] sent me" was written by grandmother. This is darn impossible. There is no way to tell who/which wrote &/or typed some parts of the life story / memoirs. I assume that "granddad" Edwards typed it though, and so the morse code looks very unlikely.

I have already wrecked my friendship with uncle Eric either/both because of this and/or because i am so difficult to help because of my difficult situation/conditon &/or because i am so negative because of hell i am suffering. As always it is always me that gets in trouble for my bad, while others get away with bad to me.

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Sorry for your situation, but we've made suggestions and can't do any more. When you're ready and able, perhaps you can look into some of them and I really hope you can get some sort of answer.

Believe me, there are plenty of people who want to find our more about their origins, particularly adopted people, who have to fight for YEARS for information which is rightly theirs

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  • 2 months later...

Doesn't help Arthur-Robin but this just popped up on the Eastwood Bygones Facebook page about a little known German /Italian POW Camp on the way to Red Gates Farm , Eastwood .

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207802980888083&set=pcb.903324313121903&type=3&theater

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