Italian pows in Nottingham

[Arthur-Robin 15]

I don't think the address will be on the certificate, it doesn't have any address on my certificate or my grandfathers. My mother may not have been born at their home address. I am not buying a certificate unless the address is guaranteed to be on it. Have you any examples/evidences from the same period of addresses on birth certificates? There are other ways to find address other than alledged birth certificate like phone book, electoral roll, etc. As in other subjects people seem to get set into strict ways of doing things. (Eg the isp/ip were set on the net problem being because not upgrade until i told them i'd tried windows 8. Arthurians said i looked whre no one else looked. "Have to get a certificate".)

I am going to advertise in Notts/Underwood/basford papers/radio, can anyone tell me what the local/shire papers of those places/areas are please?

How do you know i won't be able to work out the right name from a list (of which there can't be that many Italians matching all the time/place/status/age). The fact is any list would help however supposedly-little.

I meant phone book/electoral for my grandparents address not the Italian's. The rolls & phone books are in names order so easy to find Edwards. (If they had phone then.)

Sorry for the delay i was totally distracted by another Notts subject which i am posting next after this. But it looks like everyone has become anti/negative/sceptical/unhelpful/offended anyway (i always seem to clash with people in subjects/topics). (Maybe its the fluoridated water.)

[DAVIDW 1,683]

The main daily local paper covering most of Notts

http://www.nottinghampost.com/

Others more local to the area than me , may know better but this is possibly the nearest to Underwood

http://www.eastwoodadvertiser.co.uk/news

[annswabey 599]

Have just looked at a few 1947 birth certs on Ancestry and all give an address. As I didn't actually write out your mum's certificate myself, I don't know what it will say -that's the risk you take.

Not many people had a phone in the 1940's. Electoral Rolls in England are not in name order, they are arranged by address. As you don't live in Nottingham you would have to pay someone to find any entry for you.

I AM an experienced researcher - I'm suggesting what I think would be the best thing to do, even though I can't possibly say whether it will lead to the results you want.

If you don't want to pay £9.25, then I'm not sure why you suggested a Private Investigator.

i don't think there is such a list, except perhaps a list in Italy of POW's

Good Luck with the newspapers

[Arthur-Robin 15]

Nevermind forget it, i quit, I am feeling very annoyed and hurt pride/ego, please excuse me if i write abit negatively.

I would rather pay someone to find an entry in electroal roll than for a cert. Is the "in order of addresses" by towns/areas/parishes or by streets? If by areas/parishes it wouldn't be that hard to find since couldn't have been that many people or Edwards in Underwood/Basford then.

As i said somethings i don't mind or are worth paying for and somethings like a stipid piece of paper or e-copy just/only for one stupid detail i do mind and aren't worth it.

I don't understand why 40s certs have address and other certs before and after don't.

I will try to ask my uncle and/or mother first, but my uncles are playing refusing to cooperate/help, and my mother (i was abit negative to last time on phone because she had) seemingly joined them in changing her mind and becoming opposed to finding out.

I have to make certain whether this is or isn't any lists of pows in Notts or not. Any lists would certainly help. Same with the other angles/sources/possibilities.

I can respect your research experince, though i still personally don't like the having to get certificates they always have in ancestry research. I aren't exactly not experienced researcher myself, though my experience is mostly with earlier not modern/recent.

Thankyou for the newspapers if i un-quit in future when pride less hurt.

[annswabey 599]

Sorry you didn't like the advice but it was given in good faith! A very difficult search for you - and any of the necessary searches will unfortunately cost you money

[DAVIDW 1,683]

Arthur you probably won't read this but it may be worth using Italian sites on the POW question .

Just using google transate to come up with a simple search term such as "Prisoners , World War 11 England" then translating that into Italian came up with this site about a conference held in 2013 . Section 2 seems to be of most interest and it mentions a UK academic . Maybe get in touch with her ?

http://e-review.it/malice-prigionieri-militari-nella-seconda-guerra-mondiale-tra-italia-e-inghilterra

[Enigma. 1,533]

i have noticed it hasnt been mentioned yet but before bulwell hall was demolished in 1958 it was used as a pow camp for Italians at one time

[DAVIDW 1,683]

Looking a bit further into Italian sites there is this book

http://www.ibs.it/code/9788849523560/insolvibile-isabella/wops-prigionieri-italiani.html

Don't speak any Italian but would appear to translate as Italian prisoners in Great Britain 1941 -1946 .

If anyone would know of a list of prisoners I guess the author , Isabella Insolvibile would ? Funny to see "WOPS" in the title .

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

There was an Italian POW camp near Loughborough

We still have a large(ish) Italian community here

[poohbear 1,360]

And next to Podders scrapyard Mapperley top.

[Arthur-Robin 15]

Thankyou Iandawson. I don't know if Lisle/Eric Edwards husband of my grandmother Rosalba grew potatoes, but i know my uncle Eric is a bit of a gardener, so he might have.

Thank you Davidw for the Italian sites & conference/academic, & book info! I had previously tried a couple of searches but hadn't found much (i guess i didn't search very well).

Thankyou enigma1st, bubblewrap, and poohbear for the pow camp info. I will add them to the list (of other 11 Notts pow camps which i posted on the first page).

Sorry for any offense Annswabey. I have quite a rough/stressful situation and condition which may be part of reason why i get abit negative sometimes.
I have asked my uncle Eric about address and he said "I am sorry Sean but I do not have the information you are seeking." I don't know whether he is telling the truth or still being not wanting to help / not wanting me to find out. If he's telling the truth then that must mean no address on his birth certificate. (He had previously said he remembered after/when my mother was born.)

[annswabey 599]

I contacted the person I know who was born and lived in Underwood. She was born in the 30's and her birth cert gave the road but not the number. if you had that, it would at least help with an Electoral Roll search. Have also asked her whether she remembers the family (a long shot, I know!) but haven't heard back yet

[annswabey 599]

Sorry, she doesn't remember your family but remembers that there were both Italian and German POW's there

[Arthur-Robin 15]

Thank you for that Annswabey.

My uncle Eric says there is no address on his birth certificate, but i didn't remember to ask him whether it is full birth certificate or short one. He was born in Grimsby and says they shifted alot so another difficulty. I will have to ask my mother before i buy certificate as she may have her own herself anyway, but is difficult since i was abit negative last time i spoke on phone with her.

[annswabey 599]

Had wondered whether your Mum already had it - hope so!

[Arthur-Robin 15]

My uncle John says/claims he doesn't have his birth certificate, and that he was born at a different place to my mother. (I rang my mother yesterday and my step father said she has an infection and couldn't talk. I looked up freebmd.org but turns out it is not really free at all but still have to pay to get cetrificate from registry district office.) So it looks like it is impossible to find out what address in Basford registration district the affair was at. Even if i get my mothers certificate it only gives address at time of birth not where they were 9-10 months ago. All i can say was my uncle John was born couple/few years before my mother in Basford distric, and my mother was born at Underwood in Basford district, and my aunt Margaret was born somewhere in Basford district after my mother. (Also, the Red Cross finding relatives / repatriation person replied that they wanted to see/talk me, but i am not sure if they will have anything much from previous replies from other Red Cross offices.) So i think i will call it quits as it takes too much time and effort and money etc while i have other serious troubles and things i need and want to do. (It is not impoosible just made to hard by everyone/world.) But i am cutting off from all my mothers real/supposed side of family for being so opposed/unhelpful.

[annswabey 599]

I DID say you have to pay for certs - there's no way round it. Looks as though both John and Margaret were both born during the war. Also they went to NZ in 1954. Anyway, perhaps you can take it up again some other time

[Arthur-Robin 15]

Just update on all the new info so far:

Thanks to a reply from uncle John just now, in combination with all the other previous info (from people here, and opther) i now know:

uncle Eric eldest born Grimsby
uncle John born 1942 Hucknail/Hucknall (Basford, Nott)
aunt Margaret born 1943 Hucknail/Hucknall (Basford, Nott)
Italy surrenders 1943
family lived in Hucknail/Hucknall "about 3yrs" [total? / after Eric/Marg born?].
end of WW2 1945
affair with Italian pow c May/Jun/Jul 1946 [somewhere in Basford reg district]

there were Italian & German pows in Underwood around about the time.
my mother Jennifer born apr 1947 Underwood (Basford, Nott)
census 1951
family came to NZ in 1954.
census due to be released 2052.

So i can't be sure whether the affair was in Hucknall/Hucknail or Underwood (or if somewhere else between those places), only that was certainly in Basford district and most likely Underwood or 2nd/likely Hucknail/Hucknall (or least likely somewhere between them).

If/when i am able I will have to order both my aunty Margaret's and my mother's certificates to find out the 2 addresses (since that means i don't know for sure which town the alledged affair was in in 46). But my mothers cert would only give the address 9-10 months later and my aunt Margaret's only gives the address few years earlier.

[Yes sorry, annswabey, i did know you said i'd have to pay, what i had meant was just that a few contacts had suggested freebmd site but i found that that site isn't really all free as i had had impression from its name.]

[Arthur-Robin 15]

I haven't yet been able to get the 2 certficates (mother's (underwood) and aunt's (hucknall)) yet, but my mother said on the phone that she has an old certificate which only says she was born at (sounded like) [Laurel?] House, Underwood.

Apparrently the name Petrucci was only a guess of hers when she was searching in UK though. So with no name there is only trying to get the address (as i was advised here) in the hopes someone may know/remember something.

(She also said she found an old scarf of grandads which has a hair with the root if it is of any use for genetic test [though it may be degraded or contaminated]. Interestingly she said she had a list from UK of things possible for genetic paternity test, which was much better than the pitiful couple of things the places here only say. (As always, UK has better services than small NZ.))

(Unfortunately though she also had bad news that she found out in the last week/s that she may have lung cancer.)

Also spoke to the Red Cross restoring families person here in NZ [the UK wouldn't do it] who took the details and is going to get back to me in few weeks, but it doesn't sound promising as it still sounds like they insist have to do it their only one way of have to have a name and not being able to view any lists/records that i need to help work out what the name is (as i do/did with other history topics/discoveries). (This is a problem i have a lot that orthodox always only think/willing to do things their one set way.)

Anyway if Laurel House is of any help/use let me know.

[DAVIDW 1,683]

There was a place called Laurel House at Underwood . In the news archives in the late 1930s there are about half a dozen adverts selling puppies ! No road name unfortunately .

[annswabey 599]

Laurel House gets a mention in the London Gazette in 1941, regarding naturalisation, where a woman gives it as her address. She's a Kitchen Matron in a Children's Home. She may have lived in so it was the address of the Children's Home, otherwise, of course, she didn't live in and it was her home address

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35054/page/492

[DAVIDW 1,683]

Should have mentioned that the person selling the puppies at Underwood was called Haslam .

[annswabey 599]

The Haslam name is interesting David. That's the maiden name of the person in the London Gazette

[Cliff Ton 10,465]

Found it. This is 1950s. I can't zoom in enough to keep it sharp, but that says Laurel House.

The curve in the main road is recognisable in modern maps for the village of Underwood. On some later maps Laurel House has gone, but it might be the big house in the middle of this image from Bing. Somehow it looks "right". http://binged.it/1J2YNBi

[Arthur-Robin 15]

Just an update: i haven't yet ordered the 2 certificates, or sent the advertisment to local Underwood/Nottingham papers over there yet, and i haven't heard back from the Red Cross yet, or done the genetic paternity test on the hair root yet, but I just had an idea before/when/after i woke up from sleeping/dozing the other day that my grandmother might have left a code of the Italian's name somewhere. If there is a code anywhere it would possibly be with something she gave my mother. My mother said she had some letters, but since my mother's bad news about the lung cancer about a month or so ago i am not sure that i will be able to ever find out if there is any code in them (i don't get out much and don't get to see my mother down in the next town much myself due to my own bad situation and condition, and she doesn't have any much free time anymore nowadays). Unless my mothers name is/has the code, though the only code in that may be the Guinevere for "unfaithful". Its a long shot, but is quite possible after thinking about everything. (I am not meaning any approving (by me or my grandmother) of the briefly "unfaithful" affair though.) Incidentally, some people here (Notts forum) seem very clever/talented with words etc. Italian/Romance names similar to my mother's 1st & middle names:

giovanni/john
giuseppe/joseph
guido/guy/vitus
guillaume/william
giulio/julius / giuliano/julian
giacomo/james/giacobbo/giacobbe/jacob

marco/marcus/mark
marinus
martin
maria/mario

I have also found out that my grandparents lived at Hucknall 1942-1944, at Trowell 1945(-1946?), at Underwood from (1946? or)1947 "for 5&a1/2 yrs". If the "affair with an Italian ww2 pow in Nottingham/shire" story is true, and if it was ca 9/10 months before my mothers birth, then i don't know yet whether they were in Trowell or Underwood in 1946. There is no way to find out the address in Trowell from birth certificates, but my commonly assumed grandfather worked at the Stanton Ironworks while they were there.
Apparently my commonly assumed grandfather Lisle/Eric worked in the Nottingham city council (as a sanitary inspector?) for the 5&a1/2 yrs that they were at Underwood seemingly.

I still would really like to shift to UK but is difficult re income/disability and accomodation situations (unless anyone there has any good ideas?)