Arthur-Robin 15 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I did a search of the forum on Robin Hood and was surprised to find there are no major topics/threads on Robin Hood, though there are a few on him. So i thought i would post a thread/topic on Robin Hood, though i am not sure i will be able to follow/reply it very much (other things i really need/want to do soon if/when i can).The idea is to see if we can find historical evidence of where/when/who RH was. People can also post links to RH sites.Now i must say that i am neither pro nor anti Nottinghamshire's claim and/or any other claim like Yorkshire. I don't want to offend any Notts fans. Finding the truth is the purpose.Also, it seems that there may perhaps have been more than one Robin Hood, so he may be of more than one time and place.For this first post here is a first bit on where was Robin Hood?(This is only an rough attempt to narrow down what counties/shires are most likely. The more/less asterisks the more/less likely. The list is nowhere near exhaustive/complete.) Counties/places that have connections with RH in tradition [and/or in scholarship] include: - Skye: Bernisdale. - Cumberland/Cumbria: Inglewood forest; Plumpton; Robert de Hood (1198); RH's Grave, Crosby Ravensworth; RH('s) Buttes; RH's Chair. * - Westmorland: RH('s Wood); RH's Grave. - Hexhamshire: RH Tree/Sycamore Gap (H's Wall). - Redesdale: Robin of Redesdale. - Yorkshire: (priory of St Mary at) Hampole / Barnsdale/Beornsval/BernardsHill (Richard Rolle); [church of St Mary Magdalene at Campsall (Gam(e)well?)?]; shirley Wood (Barnsdale); K Richard chased a "hart" from Sherwood to Barnsdale; church at Skelbrooke; RH's Close, Whitby; RH's Bay; Wakefield; Locewode; Doncaster; Kirklees; Kirkby/Pontefract; gold(e)sborough/goldburgh; Sowerby; St Mary's at York; Robert Hod (York, 1226); Saylis / (Blue Bell Inn in) Wentbridge; Loxley; Greenwode; Calder(dale); Plumpton; (cobbler/shoemaker of) Bradford; Greno Wood; William Tempest of Studley 1444/1409/1382; Studley Royal Park, Fountains Abbey; (lord Robert Dore of) Wadsley "Robert Hode" 1382; Robert (of) Wetherby (1226-1230); (Robert de) Kyme?; k Edward 3 parliament 15 times York; RH's Well; LJ's Well; Bishop's Tree; York "yew tree"; Guisborough/Gisburne/Gisbvrgh; RH Tower (York) / RH's Tower (Richmond Castle); Huntingdon (ridale/ryedale); Broun Robyn de Holm of Holderness 1292; [Heudnesse/Holderness & Ridale/Ryedale (Matt Paris)?]; Robin of Holderness 1469; RH's Park; RH's Well (& Wood); RH's Stone; RH's Bower & Moss; RH Hill & House; RH's Butts; RH's Howl/hole/hollow; Master Hobbe Hyrste, Robin Goodfellow’s brother 1489. *** - Sowerbyshire: Richard Hood Of Sowerby 1274 (son John Hood 1296-7). [- Lancashire: (slew a knight of) Lancaster; (passe of) Lancasshyre; ["duke of lancaster"?]; Wyresdale; Plumpton; (Guy of) Gisburn; Robyn Hode (during king's progress thru Lancashire) / Robert Hood of Wakefield summond to join the Earl of Lancaster's army?; richard de Leghs/Leghe in Lancashire; Townley (suggested Richard at Lee candidate)?; RH's Cross; RH's House.] * - Hallamshire (Yorks): little Haggas croft, Loxley chase. - Lincolnshire: Lincoln green; Robert de Kyme of Lindsey; Eagle Barnsdale; Odo the Crossbowman; Robert Hod (Lincoln assize roll, 1206); "RH was here" Lincoln cathedral 1410. * -- Nottinghamshire: (sheriff of) Nottingham/shire; Nottingham Castle wall(s); Major Oak / Edwinstowe, Sherwood forest; K Richard chased a "hart" from Sherwood to Barnsdale; Brunnesdale/brounesdale/brynsdale/brinsdale (Basford); Blidworth; Trent; Fountain Dale; Friar Tuck's well; Papplewick; RH's Pot / RH Hill (Oxton); Newark (Friar Tuck?); St Swithins church Wellow (yews); dungeon of K John's Palace (Kings Clipstone); Hodsock??; RH's Well (Nottingham / nw of Nottingham / near Newstead); RH's Cave; RH's Grave (Holbeck nth of Mansfield); RH Hill ~ RH Pit; RH's Hills; RH's Larder/The Shambles, Birklands; "RH's Stream"?; Huntingdon Street; [Miller of Mansfield?] *** -- Derbyshire: sheriff of Notts & Derby; deer; Hathersage ("LJ's grave"); LJ's Well; Erewash (Verysdale); Dale / Dale Abbey / Derbyshire Dales; Hodthorpe; RH's Well; RH's Cave; RH's Croft; RH Cross; [Hob Hurst's house;] Hood's Tor (Matlock)?; misdoers in Derbyshire "like Robyn Hode" 1439. *** - Cheshire: earl of Chester; RH Field; (uprising 1393,) archers 1397. - Staffordshire: Loxley (hall, Uttoxeter); Robertus fil Odonis; Lud's Church; Tutbury castle; Watling Str; [Robert Stafford "Friar Tuck"?]; [tanner of Tamworth?]; Huntingdon; Roger Marshall of Wednesbury "RH" 1498. ** - Warwickshire: Loxley; Robertus filius Odonis; Watling Str; [Guy of Warwick?] [- Leicestershire: Swannington; LJ's stone.] - Rutland (admin by Notts & Northants): Barnsdale; RH's Cave. ** - Northamp(ton)shire: Plumpton; Wakefield; Robert de Hood 1191/1194; Barnwell; bromswold/brun(e)swald Forest; Salcey; Willow Brook (salix, ~ Saylis); Watling Str; [Northampton Castle; Rockingham Castle;] 'RH & LJ' (2 stones); Robert Hood 1354. *** - Huntingdonshire: (earl of) Huntingdon; Barnsdale. - Cambridgeshire: (bishop of) Ely; Robert Hod (at Isle of Ely). - Bedfordshire: Thurleigh [aet thaere Lea]/Leigh ?; Knotting; [Ludlow?] - Buckinghamshire: Watling Str; Salcey Forest. - Hertfordshire: Watling Str; Sherrards Woods; Barnet(Vale)/(New)Barnet. * - Herefordshire: (bishop of) Hereford; RH's Butts. - Worcester: Robert Hod c1230 / 1234. - Gloucestershire: Robin's Wood Hill; Nottingham Hill. - Shropshire: Fletcher's Ludlow church; Hodnet; RH's Butts. - Wales: Rybyn Hod / Hodsville (Swansea). - Devon: Robert Hod 1237; [(John Littlestone of) Barnstaple]. - Somerset: Robert Odde 1234; Will Scarlet 1199; RH's Butts. - Dorset: Hod Hill. - Wiltshire: RH's Ball, Salisbury (Saylis?). - Berkshire: William Robehod 1272; Robehod/Rabunhod 1262/1261; RH 1230/40; Hodicote/Hodcott; RH's arbour/bower. - Hampshire: John Rabunhod 1272; Robert Robehod 1294. - Surrey: RH's walk, Richmond Park (Henry 8th). - Sussex: Gilbert Robehod 1286; Gilbert Robynhod 1296; Robert Robynhoud 1332; Robert Robynhoud 1381; Robert Stafford "Frere Tuk" (1417-29, chaplain from Lindfield Sussex). - London: councilor Robert Hod/Hoode 1294/1297/1318, Hostel Robin Hod/RH Inn 1292, Katherine Robynhod 1325. - Essex: Alexander Robehod 1272. - Suffolk: Robertus Robehod of Walsham le Willows 1283. - Kent: Hoodening; William of Kensham / Willikin of the Weald. - France: Robin des Bois. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 No chance that he's under trinity sq. car park then??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
benjamin1945 16,139 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 A chap in Holmfirth is a direct descendant of Robin,.............name of Billy Hardcastle, 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,457 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 He shares a house with Roger Moore in Bramcote. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Booth 7,364 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Somewhere in Ireland a teacher asks her class:"Can anyone tell me the name of Robin Hood's girlfriend? Young Paddy raises his hand and says, "Trudy Glenn,Miss". "No Paddy" says the teacher. "The answer is Maid Marion" "But Miss, what about that song we used to sing, "Robin Hood, Robin Hood, riding Trudy Glenn?" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S 2,003 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 The whole world is full of robbing hoods, barstewards and the like....The Taxation Office for starters... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arthur-Robin 15 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'm not sure if one/some of the comments are mocking/joking? I know that orthodox academics are over-/arch-critical of everything. I am also often mis-understood. I'm not in Notts or even UK but on opposite side of world so i don't know alot of local trivia (I do check everything i can). Thanks for the interesting (if not mock/joke).People are always complaining about taxes and beneficiaries. Yet do they ever raise a squeak about corporate shareholders who brag that they "don't work (hard) but [their] money works for [them]"? At least taxes are supposed to go to helping everyone, whereas linecharges only go into shareholders pockets (not maintenance as claimed/supposed/assumed).Some Robin Hood sources say his partner was Chlorinda rather than Marian. Maid Marian might be linked with the chapel of Mary Magdalene that Robin built in forest. (Compare Edwinstowe? Blidworth?)There are a number of proposed graves of Robin Hood including at Kirkby/Pontefract, Kirklees, Crosby Ravensworth, [under a wardrobe in a pub in Notts?], Loxley (Staffs/Warwicks), etc.I was thinking that there is a faint possibility that there might be someone or something under Major Oak (which dates to ca 1215 and could have been planted/sowed on/over/above someone/something buried under). (Though it doesn't sound like there was anything found under the other tree RH's Larder not too far away?)But the RH grave / Kirklees at Kirkby/Pontefract theory seems pretty convincing.Doctor Pope-de-Locksley claims to be a descendant of Robin Hood/Robert Fitzodo.Holmfirth has some interesting possible connections. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arthur-Robin 15 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 When was Robin Hood?The range of dates from scholars suggested-candidates is (late) 11th cent / 1110/1165 - Henry 8th, or (the main candidates) from 1170s - late 1300s/early 1400s.RH must have been before Henry the 8th....The dates range from traditional dates of RH is (b) 1160 - (d) 1347/1374.It is said the long bow was not commonly used before 1333.RH must have become an outlaw before Piers Plowman of 1377. (Though it is suggested by Graham Kirkby that RH could be contemp with writing Piers Plowman and died after.) [Maybe also before Richard Rolle at Hampole 1349?]The king in RH is traditionally either Henry/Harry [2/3/4], Richard [1/2], John [Lackland / of France/Gaunt?], or Edward [1/2/3 / Black Prince?]. (The queen Catherine might narrow down or might be unreliable.)If sir Richard at Lee was going to Holyland then the crusades were between 1095-1272? (Though this is uncertain as shown by Graham Kirkby.)If RH was connected with Ranulf earl of Chester (as seemingly maybe in Piers Plowman) then RH must be under either of the 2 / 3 Ranulfs earls of Chester (1120-1129, 1129-1153, 1181-1232). (Though it is suggested by Graham Kirkby that a later historical RH place was connected with the earlier Ranulf.) A partial/unexhaustive timeline of RH sources/refs:clues date to (lat)11thC (RH legend)?{pipe roll 1186 (Fitzodo)rolls of viduis 1186 (Roberti(i) filii Odonis)7 entries piperolls 1191(-7)/1194 (Robert de Huda)liber niger sicarrii 1190s (Robertus filius Odonis)Yorks pipe roll 1196 (Rob fil Odo)exchequer roll 1198 (RH)royal court rolls 1198-1199 (Robert de Hood)royal court rolls/rot.cur.reg. 1199 (Rob deHodelme)feet of fine 1199-1216 (Robert son of Odo)} ***calendar roll, pardon 1210 (Robert de Kyme) ***Major Oak c 800 yrs old **{calendar patent-rolls H3 1216 (Robert Fitzodo);deed rel to mill of Wolseley, early H3 (Robert fil Odonis);} *{pipe roll of Sheriff of Nott 1225 (RH);curia regis roll 1225 (Robertus Hod)York Assizes 1226 (Robert Hod);cal pat rolls 1227 (pardon Roberto de Kime/Kyma);pipe-rolls 1228-30-31/1225-26-27 (Robert Hood/Hobbehod);9 Yorks pipe rolls 1226-34 (RH/Hh);} ***calendar patent rolls 1242 (Robert son of Eudo) **court rec 1245 (Robert de Lockesly); **Halle 'Jeu de Robin et Marion' c1280/1283/1285;Statute of Winchester 1285 (arms/sword/bow&arrows/knife);subsidy roll 1292 (hostel of Robin Hod);{undated 13thC lib niger (Robert Fitzodo/Fitzothoh);Muskham chronicle 13thC (unnamed outlaw)} ***setting of ear ballads13th/14th; *household accounts 1323/1324 (Robyn Hod(jadis)); ***statute winchester 1331 (Roberdsmen) *correspondence 1324-1346 (RH's Bay); *Fordun scotchron 1377/1370/1341 (Robertus Hode);Langland Piers Plowman 1356/bef1360/1377 (rhymes RH); ***royal writ 1363 (archery, K Edward, sheriff);"there were no friars in Engl before the 14 cent"?May Day games ear 15th at latest (RH);"RH was here" Lincoln cathedral 1410Wytoun/Wynton Orygynale Chron 1400/c1420 (RH&LJ);Linc Cath Ms c1420 (1st RH song);monk bretton deed 1422 (rh's stone*)1st RH game 1426complaint/petition to parliament 1439 (RH);W Bower revised Scotichronicon c1440/15th (RH,&LJ);earliest copy ballad RH&tM aft1450;a monk, margin of Polychronicon c1460 (RH)Witham chronicl 1460 (RH)RH&tSofN c1472;complaint to Star Chamber 1492 (RH);[Rolle/deWode] A lytell Geste of RH c1475/1490/15th/1507;earliest copies ballads 15th/1stdecadear16th;RH games late 15th&16thAlex Barclay c1500 (RH or MM)earliest ballad RH&tP c1503Chapman & Millar's edition Geste 1508Doebock's version geste 1510printed RH ballads ear 16thJohn Mair/Major HGE/HMB 1521 (RH)Leland c1540 (Ro. Hood)Grafton chronicle 1542/1569 (RH)Copeland's geste RH 1560reg Scot 1584 (RH/RGf)Sloane ms 16thc [RH]1 of Shakespeare's earliest plays, lat16th (RH)A Munday 1598/end16th/1601 (RobEofH)play 1600 (gilbert hood)R Cecil 1605 (RHs)Camden 1607 (RH's tomb)Dodsworth 1620 (RH/RL)drayton polyolbion 1622 (RH)M Parker 'A True Tale of RH' 1632Jonson 1641broadsheet 17thC (RH)broadside ballad 17thC (A-a-D)Harleian ms c1650/17th cent (Robert filii Odonis)Percy folio ballads 17thCent (RH,GofG)Thom Gale 1635-1702 (RH, EofH)1st RH placename in Sherwood 1700ballads from 18thC (Robin, tinker, tanner, ranger)RH&LJ 18thCgrave of prioress found 1706Dugdale 1730 (Robertus fil Odonius/Fitotes)Peck collection RH ballads 1737 (RW)Stukeley 1746 (RH/RFo)Hargrove 1792 (RH)J Hunter 1783-1861/19th (RH/RH)?J Ritson 1795/1832 (RH)W Scott Ivanhoe 1819editors note in Ritson's RH 1820AThierry 1825 [RH]Planch 'Rambly with RH' 1864Gutch & Hinklies 1866 (RH)H Pyle 1883 (RH)(Tennyson)/Sullivan 1892 (RH&MM)Encyc Brit 1911 (RW)LVD Owen 1936 (RH/Hh)Errol Flynn 1938 (RH)J Hunter 1952 (RH)?Platts 'Real RH' 1980;JC Holt 1982/1984/1989 (RH){R Carpenter, Robin of Sherwood 1984;Somerset Herald 1987 (Robert of Hood)RH Prince of Thieves 1991;FJ Child 1997? (RH);B Green 2001;J Luxford 2009 (RH).} 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mick2me 3,033 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Arthur Robinhood. Please forgive the Notts humor, which may not be understood by far off lands You raise some important questions, and will probably receive sensible replies eventually. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeverilPeril 3,279 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Thank you for doing the research Arthur-Robin. I am reading it with interest and think that it should be taken a bit more seriously by some forum members. However, it may be a bit lengthly and detailed in it's present format for the non academic's such as myself. I now reside about 50 miles upstream from Nottingham, near to Stafford. Loxely and Lockesly crops up frequently hereabouts and Robin of Loxely seems to be a common name in books and films. An old drinking pal was Phil Loxely, so he me be a descendant? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 You forgot cheggers was in the movie and friar tuck did a smashing mixed grill!! (Can't trace Bulwell humour its only in the blood!!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Braddy 160 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Why can't we leave Robin Hood alone, he's always been in Nottingham , the world knows he is from Nottingham , mention Nottingham and they will say Robin Hood [except city council] job done. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Braddy 160 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 So what. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carlton 3 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Thank you for doing the research Arthur-Robin. I am reading it with interest and think that it should be taken a bit more seriously by some forum members. However, it may be a bit lengthly and detailed in it's present format for the non academic's such as myself. I now reside about 50 miles upstream from Nottingham, near to Stafford. Loxely and Lockesly crops up frequently hereabouts and Robin of Loxely seems to be a common name in books and films. An old drinking pal was Phil Loxely, so he me be a descendant? Hi another newbie here. Just to say I hope your friend Phil didn't mind drinking with Sheriff Peveril. :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Booth 7,364 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Welcome to Nottstalgia, Carlton. I look forward to reading your posts and sharing your memories. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carlton 3 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 What if he's a Myth ?? You can't say things like that in Nottingham, you'll get shot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkazana 1,736 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Fynger, don't be silly of course Robin Hood wasn't a myth, he was a mythter 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carlton 3 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Welcome to Nottstalgia, Carlton. I look forward to reading your posts and sharing your memories. Thank you, my memories stop when I was a child unfortunatly due to my fathers work. Are the two lions still there outside the councill offices? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S 2,003 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Welcome to Nottstalgia, Carlton. I look forward to sharing your memories... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carlton 3 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Why can't we leave Robin Hood alone, he's always been in Nottingham , the world knows he is from Nottingham , mention Nottingham and they will say Robin Hood [except city council] job done. The problem the council has with Robin Hood, is if it turns out that Robin Hood is a myth, and they claim he came from Nottingham, then they are going to look a bunch of real Charlie's, so perhaps it is best not to be too hard on them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arthur-Robin 15 Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thank you mick2me and PeverilPeril.Sorry, i don't mind humour, i just misunderstood because i thought it was related to academic critics mocking me which i have had elsewhere.Sorry, i am often commented on on forums for not posting very easy to read/understand posts (i have aspergers).Yes there are at least 2 or 3 Loxleys. One Loxley near Sheffield in Hallamshire/W Yorkshire, one Loxley in Warwickshire and or in Staffordshire. There is also a Locewode/Lockwood in Newton/Bichill/Wakefield area, and -ley can mean "wood".Each have RobinHood claimants/candidates: Robert Fitzodo of Loxley Staffs/Warwicks. (late 1100s-early 1200s), Robert Hood of Wakefield/Newton (early 1300s, proposed by Hunter and by Jayne Susanna Lockwood-Allen).We can't leave him alone, there are too many critics/disputes and unknowns.It would be good to find out about the historical RH. Finding out about real historical persons is interesting and important. Just like the finds of things in the bible have been really good.The Nottingham link looks pretty strong, so there is no worry. And there is no reason why RH can't have been in more than one county (like Notts and Yorks).I don't think Robin Hood can just be a myth. See the timeline of sources i posted, there seems a lot of pro evidence there. But he may possibly partially be a myth in that he may be a conflation of more than one person or many people, so "RH's" adventures may not all be from one person (or two persons) but from many over upto 200 years (1160s to 1380s).One of my possible RH candidates is the "hart" that King Richard chased from Sherwood to Barnsdale (like he &/or his men are "hart/deer" in one or two RH stories/chapters/adventures).here is a partial list of some RH sites for better/easier to read info than mine: http://robin-hood-was-here.blogspot.co.uk/http://www.robindesbois-lespectacle.fr/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2749136/Was-Robin-Hood-Yorkshire-Outlaw-ties-county-Nottinghamshire-claims-expert.htmlhttp://theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1002/Jayne-Susannah-LockwoodAllens-Discovery?page=2#.U8XJp5CBpgURobin Hood group on facebookhttp://www.beautytruegood.co.uk/robin1.htmhttp://www.beautytruegood.co.uk/robin2.htmhttp://www.beautytruegood.co.uk/robin3.htmhttp://robinhoodlegend.com/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hoodhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood%27s_Grave[robin hood trail]robinhood-loxley.weebly.com/www.robinhoodloxley.net/robinhode.webs.com/issuu.com/grahm/docs/robinhood9www.robinhoodlegend.com/robert-dore-wadsley/therealrobinhood.blogspot.com myweb.ecomplanet.com/kirk6479/mycustompage0014.htmmidgleywebpages.com/loxley.htmlrobinhood.ltd.ukhttp://www.robinhood.info/society/junioroutlaws.htmlhttp://sherwoodforest.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/NSDC-Robin-Hood-Trail.pdfwww.boldoutlaw.comhttp://www.imaginingstaffordshire.org.uk/mystery/mys5.htmhttp://midgleywebpages.com/loxley.htmlhttp://robinhood.wq2rx.com/candidateshttp://folktalesyorkshire.multiply.com/ (Sorry i can't go through them all on slow dialup to write some details of what each is about. The main RH candidates include Robert Fitzodo / Robert de Kyme / Robehod, Robert Hood of Wakefield/Newton, Robert Dore of Wadsley.) I would be interested in any other sites people can add. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carlton 3 Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 The best link of all those is this one. http://robinhood-loxley.weebly.com 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arthur-Robin 15 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 It looks like there may have been at least 2 or more main originals for Robin Hood at different times and places who were fused together.From my "where was RH" counties list i have tentatively narrowed down to 3 or 4 main counties: Yorks/Barnsdale, Notts/Sherwood & Derbyshire, Northamptonshire.Some of the main candidates are- the "hart" that K Richard chased from Sherwood to Barnsdale (Notts & Yorks)?- Robert of Kyme. http://www.beautytruegood.co.uk/robin2.htm- Hobbehod (early 1200s) (Yorks) (LVD Owen, JC Holt)- Roger Godberd (Notts). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Godberd- Robert Hood of Wakefield/Newtown/Bichill/Alverthorpe (early-mid 1300s) (Yorks) (J Hunter, JS Lockwood-Allen). http://theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1002/Jayne-Susannah-LockwoodAllens-Discovery#.VbiCjbVGQWEhttp://www.ladydespensersscribery.com/2014/03/29/guest-post-by-tony-wait-clement-glen-robin-hood-identified/- Robert Dore of Wadsley (1380s) (Yorks) (M Keen, R Lynley, G Kirkby). http://robinhood-loxley.weebly.comOne Robin Hood seems to have opperated in Barnsdale W Yorks. "Robin Hood's barn" seemingly may be Barnsdale. At least one candidate may have opperated in or have connection with both Yorks & Notts.One early-late RH source mentons red cliffs of Sherwood. Does anyone have any info on any red cliffs and/or just cliffs in Sherwood/Notts?Some possible descendants of Robin Hood that we have so far are:- Billy Hardcastle mentioned by people on page 1 of this thread.- Dr John Russell Pope-de-Locksley.- Jayne Susanna Lockwood-Allen might be descended from both Allen-a-Dale and Robert Hood of Wakefield/Newton/Bichill/Locewode?- I found there is a Hood in my family tree about 7-8 generations ago, but Hood is a common surname so may not be related to RH. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arthur-Robin 15 Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Someone has blocked or is blocking me from being able to post on the blue boar Robin Hood forum anymore. So i have to post this that i worked on on last 1-2 wholedays here instead. (Keep getting forbidden, no permission to post reply there today. More persecution from Rome. Or have i been banned there because i said a few negative bits? Always the way, dirty rotten secret blockings etc against me that no one else knows about. (Sorry if it possibly wrong paranoia, but is strange thing & timing that never happened before.) I tried to use my years old other yuku account (i hope i don't get banned for multiple accounts, i had troubles when first joint years ago) but seems to have been deleted or else not remember/noted right password or username. I tried to create a new account there but still blocked from posting permission.) Threads/topics on blue boar i was trying to reply to: theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1114/interesting-questions-andor-tidbits theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1115/Rob-Hod-Pipe-Roll-entry-E37270-12261227 (and theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1106/Robin-Hood-lists-etc?page=3 ) The main RH candidates theories include: Robert Fitzodo of Loxley, Fulk Fitzwarin, Robert Kyme, Robert Hod / Hobbehod (Owen), Roger Godberd (Baldwin), Robert Butler 1294, Robert Hood of Wakefield (Lockwood-Allen), Robert Hood of Newton (Hunter), "Lord" Robert Dore of Wadsley "Robert Hood" 1382 (Kirkby). A new timeline attempt. (Was going to post the timeline in "RH lists" thread/topic and the comments in the tidbits thread, but have to do in one post now.) 876 Ivar the Boneless 1042-1189 utlaga/utlagi 1066 hastings/senlac 1070s Hereward the Wake 1065/72/1075 Waltheof (son Robert (Ranulf earl of Chester)) 1080 Brunn/Bourne (Lincs); 1086 Doomsday book; 1095-1272 Crusades "clues date to (lat) 11th cent" (RH legend) 11th & 12th cents Marian cult reached apogee in W Europe b1110-d1165 Sir Robert Foliot 1111 Owain robberies 1111 Dunmow bacon 1120-9 Ranulf le Meschin 3rd Earl of Chester 1123 first park (woodstock) 1127 wild hunt in sky observed by people 1129-53 Ranulf de Gernon 4th Earl of Chester 1138 Peter of York, John of Beverley, Wilfrid of Ripon 1138 Scots raid N England, Abp appeal 'men of Sherwood' 1140 new bridge over trent 1140 Nott burned 1140-1194 outlaws 1141 battle Lincoln, appeal to 'men of Sherwood' 1153 Nott burned 1154-1189 Miller of Mansfield (300 pounds) (Henry 2) 1156 Nott town wall rebuilt 1160 "RH born" (Ritson 1795) 1160-1218 St Robert (Flower) of Knaresborough 1160/c1200-1220 Richard de Legh (Lord of West Hall, Legh, Cheshire) 1166 Robert son of Odo of Lochesleia Warwicks 1166-1553 Molyneux family of Loxley Warwicks 1175 Edwinstowe 1179 William Trussel/Russell 1179 Richard de la Lee & his bro Hugh set free an unnamed prisoner 1181 "a boy named Robert sacrified by the Jews" 1181-1232 Ranulf de Blondeville 6th Earl of Chester "1185 RH's supposed escape from prison" "1188 RH & LJ Whitby Abbey/Laths" 1189-1199 K Richard 1 chased "hart" from Sherwood to Barnsdale by 1190 drop in merchant & trading traffic, rise in religious 1190s Robertus filius Odonis (liber niger sicarrii) * 1191 priest or monk of pipe-roll [supposed to be similar to RH & Monk] 1191/4/7 Robert de Hood/Huda (Northants, 7 entries piperolls) 1191-1221/1254 Robert de Huntingdon le Scot 1194 storming/siege of Nott Cas by K Rich 1196 "Fitzodo of Loxley is no longer a knight" c1196 Robert fil Alan de Ridale; betw 1160-1196? 'master R' (of church of welburn, ridale letters); 1196/1202/3 (sir) robert (fitzodo/fitzooth) (of Harbury/Loxley/Uttoxeter) 1198 Robert de Hood (Cumberland/Cumbria) 1198 Herkelea, Rogsi 1198 / 9th Rich 1 "RH died" (RH grave, Major HMB 1521) 1199 "RH & LJ" (Rapin's) 1199 Rob de Hodelme * 1199 Will Scarlet (Somerset) "12th cent" LJ's Shot (Dublin) 1200s Robin more pop than Robert 1200 : 15 kts sent after Fulk Fitzwarin (Shrops/Welsh) 1200-1215 Giles Bp of Heref 1202 Ragnild wife of John Hood 1202-3 Baldwin (de) Hod(e)net; 1205-9 extension of Nott castle 1206 Robert Hod (Lincoln assize roll) * 1210 robber (rule of St Francis); 1210/1225/1226/1227/1265 Robert de Kyme (of lindsey/at wenlock) outlaw (grievious offenses); * c1212-6 robert son of robert fitzwalter [c1213] Major Oak 800 yrs old 1213 Robert Hood (servant of Abbot of Cirencester, Gloucs) 1216 "R." chaplain of Robert Fitzwalter 1218 Livery giver 1221&2 Linton near Wetherby in St Peters lands/juristicion 1223-30 Robert Hod witness deed at Follifoot next to Plumpton park fro Will de P & Rob de P; 1224 franciscans & dominicans in England (Henry 3) 1225/6-34 Robert(i) Hod outlaw/[felon?] (cross, St Peter 1234); * 1225 Robert Hod (Bucks); 1225 Hod fled; 1226-7 Robert Hod fugitive, Iuonis/Ivo Marton, William Warin Ottringham Holderness * 1226-30 Robert (of) Wetherby 1227 forest laws undated 13th C 'lib niger' 'Robert Fitzodo/Fitzothoh'. ear 13th cent : 2 inscribed bells of Skelbrooke church 1227-28 Hobbehod (St Peter's York 1227) (Owen). * 1229-30 Robert(i) Hood fugitive/[felon?] & Iuonis * c1230 pre-cricket c1230/34 Robert Hod (Worcs) 1230/1240 RH (Berks) 1231 sir robert thwing of danby; 1233-4 Robert Hod S Petr cross in Grimston * 1234 Robert Odde (Somerset) 1237 Robert Hod (Devon) 1241-63 Robert Hod de Linton (Wetherby) * 1242 Robert son of Eudo 1242/5/7/8 Robert/Robertus (de/of) lokeslay/lokesley/Lockesly/locksley 1242-3 RH de Linton 1242/1250s Henry 3's Assize of arms 1244 Dunmow bacon 1247/1274 "RH died" (RH grave, Ritson 1795) 1248 Gilbert Blanchard 1250 Grey friary Nott 1251-3 Sherwood/Shirewood 1254 william de Cauntelo buried Studley "1254 Robert de Huntington pardoned" 1258 unknown William Tuk 1260s Robert Hod (Yorks) * 1260s/1265/c1272/1276 Roger Godberd outlawed? 1261/2 William de Fevre / (William) Robehod/Rabunhod (Berks) 1262 St Richard of Chichester 1263 RH Hereford, 1264 Robert de Ferrers outlawed 1265 Baron's revolt 1265-72-1307 Edw 1st 1266 Will de Grey Sh of Nott in conflict with outlaws in Sherwood * 1266 "Robert Hood & LJ, disinherited [Lincs], sicarius, mass, piety, c1266" "k H3 & prince Ed 1" (Fordun/Bower 1440). 1267-70 Roger de Doncaster (Nott) 1271 hats first mentioned (Henry 3) 1272-1307 "RH, Sherwood" (Edw 1) (Polychronicon/Luxford) 1272 Nott, Leic, Derb, ways, woods nos of robbers... (Patent rolls) 1272 William Robehod (Berks) 1272 John Rabunhod (Hants); 1272 Alexander Robehod (Essex) 1274 Richard Hood [son of Rob Hood] of Sowerby 1275 Scarlet family (Blidworth)? 1275 / late 13th cent Gododdin 1276 Carmelite friary Nott 1279/80 "Scarlet Cross" [Scarlet Close?] 1279-81 brun Robin de North Coldone 1279-88 Sherwood/Shirewood c1280 Jeu de Robin et Marion 1280 Eoth K's felon Connaught 1283 "LJ & RH Inglewood & Barnsdale" (Wyntoun's 1420). late 1200s Sowerby forester John de Midgley 13th cent unnamed outlaw, Muskham chronicle 1283 Robertus Robehod of Walsham le Willows (Suffolk) [1285] Roberdsmen/Robertsmen 13 Ed 1 1285 Statute Winchester Edward I everyman arms; 1286/1296 Gilbert Robehod/Robynhod (Sussex) 1287 William Scathlock (St Mary's); 1290 Sir Richard Foliot 1290 Edward tourn later 13th cent : Edward 1 recruited men of Sherwood 1292 Broun Robyn de Holm of Holderness 1292 Hostel Robin Hod/RH Inn London 1292 little john & petit johan 1294 Robert Robehod (Hants); 1294 Robert 3 Butler (b 1275) 1294 Robert le Mouner [Miller] of Paynel Hoton 1294 (Skelbrooke) 1294/1297/1318 London councilor Robert Hod/Hoode 1295/1323/1337/1353 kt Richard de Touneley/Townley 1296-7 John Hood [of Sowerby] 1298-1304 exchequer/chancery at York 13th/14th cent setting of ear ballads 13th cent Haxey hood? 1300s (Gawaine &) Green Man "14th cent Rich of Westminster/Cirencester's" 'ed Situ Britanniae' 14th cent peasants still oppresed & downtrodden "there were no friars in Engl before the 14 cent"? livery not til 14th cent? 1300-78 Robert "Litelrobyn" 1301/9 Roger de Doncaster; 1302 Roger of Doncaster "1304" William Wallace "Scottish Robin Whood" (18th cent) 1305 robert/broun Robyn le Batour 1306 Barnsdale rife with robbers * ear 14th cent Guard raised passing thru Barnsdale * 1307-27 Edw 2nd (sodomy, Berkeley castle) 1308/1314/16/23/47 robert hood of wakefield/bichill/locewode (& John Littsells, William Stoodley, Michael son of Miller); 1309/1331/32 robert (hood) the grave of wakefield/at alverthorpe; 1310 Rob(ert) de Brunn 1311 Roger Robelard/[robarde?] "by 1316" "william de studley dead" (Wakefield court rolls) 1317 William de Trent (Stanton) 1318 Will(iam) Scarlet 1318 [liteljohn?]/John le Litel (band radiers) 1319 RH's Cross (Derby) 1319 defenders from York 1319-21 Richard de (la) Lee 1320-7 John de Montkyl & John Parker robbed TK of S (Edw 2) 1322 Little John of C0ckcroft 1323 Robert_le_brun 1323 investigations Royal Forests (Plumpton park) 1323 king Ed 2 in Lancs 1323 Edward 2 visit Nott 1323 Littel John (made off with deer, Yorks) 1323/4 Robyn Hode/Hodjadis porter K Edw 2 (Hunter) * 1324/6/7-1340/6 RH's Bay (correspondence); * betw 1324-46 witteby 1324/6 Dean of Doncaster 1325 Katherine Robynhod (London) 1327-77 Ed 3rd (parliament 15 x York, ref to as oure cumly king c1339, Bernesdale in records of, aid from Saylis); brother Robert of York (of Knaresborough, K Edw 3) 1327 roger son of william of doncaster 1327-8 Robert de Wodehouse (Pontefract?) 1328 tournament york 1329 goods carried away Skelbrooke 1330 Edward 3 crept into Nott 1330/1333-1515 longbow 1331 Roberdsmen/Robertsmen 5 Ed 3 (Statute Winchester) 1331 robert hood of newton (near wakefield) (Hunter) 1331-3 Robert de Wodehall 1332 Robert Robynhoud (Sussex) 1332 William de Skargill/Scargill 1332-3 Plumptoun Laund / Plumpton Hay, 1332-5 Plumpton walled in 1333 dangerous spot Galtres Yorks 1333 Roger de Doncaster [1333 robert hode/hood of/at stanley?] 1335 parliament York 1340s York mystery plays 1341 Fordun (doesn't mention "RH & LJ 1266") [1341/2] Rob./Robert de Edenstow/Edwinstowe 14/15 Ed 3 bef 1344 Richard de Leyes (Staffs) 1344 Satelites of Satan Fountains Abbey 1346-7 Saylis/Sayles contributed aid to K Edw 3 1346-9 Sherwood/Shirewood 1347/1374 "RH died". 1349 Richard Rolle at Hampole 1350-1520 merry/merrie england 1350-1550 2-handed longsword last half of 14th & beg of 15th cent grievances of poor 1353 shire-reevs tourn in brighouse 1354 Robert Hood (Rockingham/Northants) 1354-67 John Litel c1355 tournaments Edward 3 [1357] William (de) Trent of Gunthorp 30 Ed 3 1359 haxey hood; 1361-4 Sir Richard Vernon (Gascony 1361, pilgrim 1364) * 1363 royal writ K Edward 3, sheriffs proclaim everyman learn archery 1363 Robert de Edwinstowe 1366 roger de Bangwell rector of Dronfield in Doncaster 1367 Robert de Huntingdon (Yorks) 1369 Chaucer's Canterbury tales 1371"RH attended St Mary's ch adj to Nott Market" (G Kirkby) 1371 Mary patron St of Tailors Guild / Guild of St Mary 1372 Rober Hotot 1376 York mystery plays Foliot lords of Wellow to late 14th cent 14th cent Gawaine & Green Knight 1376 Gower (Robin/Marian) c1377 William/Robert (of) Langland 'Piers Plowman' (RH & Ranulf EofC) 1377 English c1377-84 Fordun 'Scotichronicon' ("Robert Hood & LJ, sicarius, mass, piety, c1266") 1379 Agnes of Handworth & Robert Hode 1380 rob Peter to pay Paul (Wyclif) 1380 mayor John Gisbourne 1380 poll tax; 1380/1 peasants revolt (John Ball, Jack Straw); 1381 Hobb the Robber 1381 Robert Robynhoud (Sussex) 1381 Robert Hood of Hereford (merchant) 1382 pardon of Robert Dore "Robin Hood" 1382/1409 William Tempest of Studley 1388 4th black death/pest c1390 The Merchant's Surety ** 1393 uprising Cheshire/Chester 1394 Richard 2nd visits Chester 1394 Sir Guy of Warwick "no Robert of Huntingdon bef 1397" 1397 archers Cheshire/Chester 1400 Brunn/Bourne (Lincs) 1410 "RH was here" Lincoln cathedral 1410/1420 'Linc Cath Lib Ms' ("RH in Sherwood", 1st RH song/rhyme) 1412/1414 roberthoad (a woman) 1414 most friars expelled 1417-29 Robert Stafford "Frere Tuk" (chaplain from Lindfield Sussex) c1420 Wyntoun's Orygynale Chronicle ("LJ & RH Inglewood & Barnsdale 1283"). 1422 RH's Stone, Slephil (Monkbretton Priory cartulary) 1429 legal maxim (RH in Barnsdale), 1429 Piers Venables likened to RH 1432 "RH in Grene Wode in an acrostic in a Parliamentary return" 1432 Reynoldyn (in comic list of outlaws in the Wilts parliamentary rolls) 1438 Robene Hude (ship, Aberdeen) 1439 misdoers in Derbyshire "like Robyn Hode" 1440 Bower revised Scotichronicon interpolation ("Robert Hood & LJ, Barnsdale, disinherited, sicarius, mass, piety, c1266") 1441 Robynhodesmen (Norfolk) 1444 William Tempest of Studley 1444 Richard Robinson a servant in household of Earl of Shewsbury later half of 15th cent enclosures, Livery after 1450 / 1465 / 15th cent RH & the Monk (earliest ballad, LJ knows paths Sherwood well, Nott); c1455 Vernon (Yorkist). 1456-60 John Robhode/Robewode of Walsham 1460 an unknown monk / Witham priory chronicle / 'Polychronicon' margin, 'Luxford note' (RH, Sherwood, Edw 1) (2009). 1460 robbers; 1461 robbers; 1461-93 comely K Edward 4th reigned 22yrs (merchant king, Tanner of Tamworth); 1468 RH & the Potter (Wentbridge, Nott, unnamed forest)? 1469 Robin of Holderness / robin of redesdale c 1470s/1475 RH & the Sheriff (earliest Friar Tuck ref) 1485 RH's Close Notts 1488/1489 Robin Goodfellow(’s brother) (Yorks); 1488 Hodekin; 1492 Star Chamber complaint (RH & his men) 1498 Roger Marshall of Wednesbury "RH" (Staffs) after 1400s RH's Tower Richmond Castle c1500 Gest (Saylis, went at a bridge, Barnsdale, St Mary's York, (forest close to) Nott, Kirklees) c1500 Barclay's Ship of Fools (RH or MM) 1500s RH & LJ Inn Hatfield c1503 RH & the Potter? 1509-47 alleged Robin Hood from the reign of Henry the 8th 1518 May games (Somerset) (Robin Wood) 1521 Major HMB c1540 Leyland's Collectanea Itinerary 1540 rob Peter to pay Paul 1544-51 katherine & john robhood 1548 wake-robyn/robin_Wake c1568 Kirk-o-Fields 1569 Grafton (way) 1584 Reginald Scot (Robin Goodfellow, Hodekin); 1592 Stow's AoE (rib rich give poor) 1598 RH('s) Buttes Cumberland/Cumbria late 16th cent Shakespeare 1598/1601 Munday (Robert E of Hunt) 1600s Dodsworth 1607 Camden 1609 Guy Fawkes & assocs branded "RHs" by Robert Cecil 1622 RH Tower York 1622 Drayton's Polyolbion c1637 Jonson 'Sad Shepherd' (RH) 1652/1680 LJ's grave St Michael's Hathersage (Derby) 1673 RH's Butts (Surrey); 17th cent Broadside ballad (1st appearance Alan a Dale) mid-17th cent Percy Folio ms 1700 RH's Cave / woods of Bishops hill 1700 1st RH placename Sherwood 1765 Percy 1786 John Little (Beeston, Notts) 1795/1820/32 Ritson ("RH born 1160, died 1247/1274 at 87 yo") 18th cent William Wallace "Scottish Robin Whood" ("1304") 1818 Sir W Scott 'Ivanhoe' 1852/83 Hunter (RH of Newton) 1883 Pyle 1911 Encyc Britannica 1936 Owen (Hobbehod) 1957 R Graves 1976/7/1997 Dobson & Taylor 1982/9 Holt 1984 Carpenter/ITV Robin of Sherwood 1985 Bellamy 1987 Keen 1991 RH Prince of Thieves 1994/97/2003 Stephen Knight 1997 Child 2001 B Green (Yorks) 1997/2007 Ohlgren 2009 Luxford (1460) 2009 JP Davis 'Unknown Templar' 2010 Baldwin (Godberd) Comments: At this time of year we wonder about the RH Grave inscription "24 kalends Dekembris" [or "18 November"] "1247" [or "1347"]. Regarding the Bishop of Hereford [or Ely] there is a question of if the "Bishop's Tree" is actually genuine or not, and so whether the bishop was traveling between Hereford/Ely and York, or if was a local Hereford/Ely Robin Hood separate story merged in. I wonder if Robin Goodfellow indicates Roger Godberd? Jolly Robin and Jolly Roger?? Bonny Robin and Br(o)un Robin?? Re 400 pounds of Sir Richard, i found 300 pounds in the Miller of Mansfield which supposed to be set in Henry 2nd's reign. I always still wonder if Chaucer's Canterbury Pilgrims connect with Robin Hood. It is just so strange that quite a few characters so similar. RH -- Chaucer Knight -- Sir Richard at Lee Squire -- Little John? Yeoman -- Robin Hood? Prioress -- Prioress of Kirklees nun -- monk -- RH & the Monk? Tuck? Friar -- Friar Tuck Merchant -- cf Robert Dore of Wadsley? Clerk of Oxenford -- Barrister/Sergeant-at-law -- Franklin -- poor parson - similar to - Robin Hood. RH & LJ & WS Robert Bruce, John Balliol, William Wallace?? From the new timeline we post in the RH lists thread: We have divided/broken the timeline into sections with the breaks at places of seeming significant historical Robin Hood dates. Strange that St Richard may suggest date later than Hobbehod. (Could St Richard also imply anything else about Sir Richards name or location??) 1166-c1377 seems to be the maximum range for Robin Hood candidates. It is interesting that 3 witnesses/sources claim RH was in 1266-1283 time period (Bower, Polychronicon, Wyntoun). (Though why didn't Fordun mention?) This is time of Godberd (& Foliiot). Sheriff of Nott conflict with outlaws 1266, and numbers of robbers in 1272. Fits with St Richard. Interesting that there are a few possible Lincoln(shire) RH connections: Kyme of Lindsey; Lincoln Green; Witham ms; Lincoln cathedral ms; [Sir Richard G & St Mary's Cathederal?] [Witham sword?] I am puzzled by the Hobbehod versus Kyme dates and pros & cons. K Edward 3 seems to have quite a few pros for being king of Robin Hood of the Gest. Gest says "Edward", and the "our (comely) king" implies writer/composer was contemporary while its date would be later rather than earlier. Edw 3 parliament 15 x York, Edw 3 ref to as oure cumly king c1339, Bernesdale in records of Edw 3 (in British History site, which i can't view unless pay for), Edw 3 aid from Saylis, crept into Nottingham, robertsmen, brother Robert of York [Friar Tuck candidate], tournaments, royal writ everyman archery. Plumptoun Laund / Plumpton Hay during Edw 3 reign. Edw 1: every man arms, tourn 1290, recuit men of Sherwood, roberdsmen, polychronicon, statute Winchester everyman arms, barnsdale rife with robbers. Time of Robert Butler of Skelbrooke. Edw 2 (of Hunter's theory): visited Nottingham, in Lancs (like in Gest), "sodomy" (like French claim of RH / merry men), Berkeley similar to Kirklees, investigation royal forests incl Plumpton Park, porter named RH (jadis may imply previously). Edw 4th: 22yrs, "comely", merchant king, Tanner ballad. I am wondering if a research more into the 6 or 7 main sources (Muskham chron, Lincoln cath ms, Wyntoun, legal maxim, acrostic, Bower, Witham, Monkbretton) might lead to further connections/leads/discoveries. 2 sicari dates: liber niger sicari 1190s, "sicarius 1266" of Bower. Is anyone in the local Notts & s/w Yorks areas willing & able to investigate some sites with a metal detector for me if i pay you for it? (I am still stuck in NZ on opposite side of the world.) Cheers, Sean B. checkout my "(King) Arthur's" 12 battles 9 battle sites of Nennius discovery too if interested ( http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36994 ). ----- Fluoridated water ("kool-aid", wormwood) (& fluoridated food) wrecks disadvantaged peoples (like me) lives/health/ability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
benjamin1945 16,139 Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 perhaps not Hereford but hereward which is an old name in cambridgshire which puts it close to Ely Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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