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Getting used to seeing the Robins around town and quite like the idea of bringing a bit of colour to the streets. In fact today I took photos of a couple of them on my travels. Here I present the

Catfan, apartĀ from brightening the streets up and encouraging people to discover each and every Robin, they will be auctioned off at the end of the season and all proceeds will go to The Nottinghamshi

One more point if I may. It's pretty much certain that Clough will be remembered the A52 Nottingham to Derby is named after him, as to T&D every time I hear the bolero I think of them.

19 hours ago, benjamin1945 said:

perhaps not Hereford but hereward which is an old name in cambridgshire which puts it close to Ely

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Thankyou Benjamin, thats an interesting idea to checkout that i didn't think of. (I have wondered if Hereward the Wake might link with Herewig ancestor of Robert Butler of SkelbrookeĀ http://midgleywebpages.com/skelbrooke.html , and/or with Wakefield.)

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That's the chap.....thanks cliff-ton.............good old Billy Hardcastle.............bet 'Commo' knows him..............

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They're Yorkshire folk, what do you expect ?

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I think i may possibly have just solved it. Robin Hood, Little John and Will Scarlet maybe match Robert Deyville, John Deyville (strong man) and Nichole Deyville. Thanks to John M who directed me to this page which gives alot of info about them http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/robert-hod-cambridge/ . If this is right then of course it means that EF Jacob more or less already discovered Robin Hood in/by/before 1925. John M was right about Bower & . "Merry Christ-mas" "Merry Men".


Here is a first table for the possible Deyvilles scenario (all possible candidates, but gen in order of first most likely, last least) :

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Abbot of St Mary's ~ Simon of Warwick [Simony] (justice in 1268) 1258/1263?

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Alan A Dale ~ Adam [de Newmarket?] kinsman of Devilles? Ad(e)lingfleet 1265? Jocelyn Deyville?

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Bishop of Hereford/Ely ~ Robert Deyville of Ely 1266/7? Robert Hod of Ely/Cambridge 1269? Isle of Axholme? Bp of Dunkeld? John de Breton debts/owed/disappears c1255/1261/1265? Earl of Hereford 1321? Bp of Durham betw 1301/1321 & 1322/1317? "Hereford RH 1263" (Graham)? William Bereford justice of King's bench (Edw 1)? monk Andrew Simpson?

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Gilbert Whitehand ~ Foliot/Wellow connected with Gilbert de Gant? Nigle d'Albini? Gilbert earl of Glou-cester 1265/7? Jocelin? Gilbert de Middleton 1317?

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High Justice ~ [Reginald justice of Chester?] Simon of Warwick justice in 1268? William Bereford justice of King's bench (Edw 1)?

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John Little/LeTall/Naylor (always count money, like brother to RH, "Scot") ~ Et Sire Jo(h)n Deyville/D'Eyvile/d'Ayvil(l)/deEyvill/deDaiville/Davill [similar to de Nevill] (strong warrior) 1260s? St John Baptist's Day 1265? John de Vesci? little john & petit johan 1292? son John (served at Falkirk 1298)? Jocelin (served in Marches of Scotland 1318) 1321/1326? John Mowbray 1321/1326?

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King Edward ~ Lord Edward 1265 (later king)?
Ā K Edward 1 1265/1272/1298? Edward 2 (defeat at Hood) 1323?

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Much/Midge (Mich(ael)/Mitch) (sometimes replaces Will Scarlet as 3rd) ~ Nichole Deyville [Nick]? Sowerby forester John de Midgley late 1200s? Petit Johan 1292?

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Queen Catherine ~ Scot Queen Margaret? Q Eleanor?

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Robin/Roberd Hood/Goodfellow [Peter?] ~ Robert Deyville/deEyville (family home at Hode/Hood 1264)? Robert de Ferrers? Roger Godberd 1266? RH of Ely/Cambridge? Green Man York Minster 1270-80?

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Ranulf earl of Chester ~ Reginald de Grey [Reginald justice of Chester]? battle Chesterfield 1266? Robert of Gloucester? Robert de Nevill?

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Reynold (Greenleaf (RG)) ~ Reginald de [Grey]? Deyville? Roger Godberd (RG)?

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Sir Richard at Lee (as if 2 diff kts, changed livery 2nd visit) ~ Sir Richard Foliot 1271/2 (changed sides 1263/4)? Sir John Deyville? Nichole [n/r like Nicholas/Lincoln]? Richard Hood of Sowerby 1274?

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Sheriff of Nott ~ William de Grey in conflict with outlaws 1266? Reginald de Grey?

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Simon over the Lee, the Noble Fisherman ~ Simon de Montfort the younger 1265? Simon de Montfort earl of Leicester?

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Sire Guye of (Good) Gisburn [relative?] ~ Walter Ewyas &/or/of (Roger) Godberd? Sir(e) Gosselin/Jocelin Davil(le)/Dainell 1321 (hanged & drawn)?

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Sir/Red Roger of Doncaster [insider?] ~ Roger de Doncaster (Nott, 1267-70)? Roger de Mowbray 1295? Roger Godberd? Richard Bp of Dunkeld? Roger son of Robert [Hod] (Ely) 1269? Sire Roger of Clifford 1321? Sir Roger Mortimer 1321? Peter's son Roger 1323?

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St Austin ~ Augustinians 1256? St Oswald?

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St Richard of Cirencester 1262?

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Will(iam) Scarlet ~ cousin Nichole De(y)Ville [St Nicholas in Red] 1264? William Page (Ely/Cambridge)? Walter Ewyas? Selby? Wellow?

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3: Robin, John & Will/Much ~ 3: Robert Deyville, John Deyville & Nichole Deyville? Roger Godberd, John Deyville & Walter? Roger of Clifford, John Mowbray & Gosselin Davill?

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Barnsdale ~ family manor near Barnsdale? Foliot's other property? Ferresdale? [Franesfield?] Barnwell 1269? St Barnabas 1269?

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Gam(e)well ~ Gargrave 1264? Caunton? [Cauntelo 1254?] Egmanton? Grymestone/Grimston 1264? Hambleton Hills? James de Audrey? Kenilworth 1266/c1322?

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Holderness ~ Scarborough? Hode/Hood 1264? Axholme? Ely? brun Robin de North Coldone 1279-81? Broun Robyn de Holm of Holderness 1292?

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Lee ~ Lewes 1264? a vill called Lea 12 mi east of Blythe, near Fenwick/Deighton? Leicester (Montfort)?

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Loxley ~ Kenilworth 1266/c1322 (Loxley manor granted to Kenilworth priory 1253)? vill called Lea east of Blythe? Jocelin (De(y)Ville)? Longshanks? Roxburgh? K Alexander? Axholme?

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Nottingham ~ Nottingham .../1304/5? Northampton 1264?Ā  Northallerton? Norwich?

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RH's Bay / Whitby ~ John Deyville reappointed keeper of Scarborough castle 1264, & Hode 1264, &/or in isle of Axholme with Simon de Montfort the younger 1265 ["Alnwick"]?

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Sherwood (LJ knew well) ~ wodes & feldes 1266? refuge as outlaws in Sherwood? family manor in Sherwood? Godberd Sherwood/Charnwood? Sherburn in Elmet 1321?

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Verysdale ~ Ferresdale in Rufford charter? Worsboroughdale? Barnsdale? Wellow?

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[I think i saw some versions (like Noyes?) say RH died in a tower? ~ RG died in Newgate Prison in 1276 in alternate source?]

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RH b 1160 / fl 1266 (Bower) / 1283 (Wyntoun) / Edw 1 (Polychronicon) ~ Godberd/Deyvilles 1260s? Godberd 1265-1276? unnamed 13th cent outlaw Muskham chronicle?
RH d dec 1247/1274 ~ submitted to Edward 1265? [Deyville died (before) 1295? and/or Mowbray died 1295?] comet 1265? battle Evesham 1265? safe passage Dec 1266? inquest 1275? place Hode/Hood 1264? GodberdĀ  died 1276? Sir Henry Deyville of Gargrave d 1264?

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Sir Richard's ancestors 100 yrs knights ~ Foliots in 1110, 1165, 1270/2, 1290? [Compare RH 1160 to Deyvilles/Godberds 1260s (like 1247/1274 / 1347/1374)?]

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RH & LJ pardoned ~ Deyvilles submitted to Lord Edward in 1265? "Godberd pardoned in 1266 / by K Edw 1"? Jocelyn & Robert pardoned 1318? Jocelyn pardoned 1322?

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400 pounds (unlikely after 1279) ~ John Deyville's settlement of a mortgage of 400 pounds to Abbot of St Mary's in 1276?

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I noticed another possible parallel:
3/4: RH, LJ, WS (&/or Much).
3/4: ("Jesus",) Peter, John, (James (&/or Andrew)).
If so, there may be at least 2 brothers in the 3 or 4 persons,which might poss support Deyville theory?

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p.s. It seems that 3 or 4 of {Robin Hood, Little John, Will Scarlet &/or Much Millersson} match with 3 or 4 of {Robert Deyville, John Deyville, Nichole/Nicholas Deyville &/or Jocelin/Goscelin Deyville}, but we are not certain which way around {Will & Much} and {Nichole ("victory people") & Jocelin ("just one")} match.

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Nichole/Nicholas Deyville (cousin, at Caunton, deputy Sherifff of Notts, a custos pacis, a leader of rebels).

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(Sir) Jocelin Davil/Dainell (cousin, valletus/yeoman, notorious, at Deighton north of Pontefract, aid of Thomas Earl Lancaster, at Sherburn-in-Elmet) (combined details for both of the 2 or all of the 3 (generations) Jocelins).

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Looks like more likely the other way around than posted above? (Much ~ Nicholas, Goscelin ~ Will Scarlet.)

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Also saw another alternative candidate for Gilbert Whitehand : "the parliament with the Whit Bende".

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Oscar De Ville sounds abit like Oscar Wilde. There are probably many secrets known to the Vatican (Library).

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Re Mr Hardcastle there is a Miss Hardcastle in CS Lewis' 'That Hideous Strength'.
http://www.gutenberg.ca/ebooks/lewiscs-thathideousstrength/lewiscs-thathideousstrength-00-t.txt

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-----
Little John [John Deyville] was Robin Hood's [Robert Deyville's] Big Brother.

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It's a bit much to take all this in but looking at a variation of the spelling as D'eyvill there is this about John D'eyvill who lived in a place called Hood .

http://s40local.co.uk/robin-of-chesterfield/

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Wow thanks for that David. I was finding it difficult to find anymuch good web/net info because of the problem of spellings of the surname. Its always more difficult searching when variations of spellings of (combinations of) names (eg Gisbourne, Gisburne, Guy, Guye).

Variations of spellings i have collected so far: Deyville, D'eyvill, De_Eyvill(e), D'Eyvile, d'Ayvil(l), de_Daiville, Davill, Deiville, Dayville, Deyville, Daiville, De_Ville.

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Yes that John D'eyvill of Hood & "Robin of Chesterfield" are the same persons as our John Deyville & Robert Deyville.

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There is some more info on them here:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2004-09/1096535182
(or http://soc.genealogy.medieval.narkive.com/AaGWWDuc/cp-addition-margaret-wife-of-1-sir-john-deiville-and-2-adam-de-everingham , the last post.)

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Little John was the key. When i saw John Deyville was called a "homo callidus et bellator fortis" ["a man clever/cunning/canny (or hard or hot) & a warrior strong/doughty"] it seemed so much like Little John in the stories. He also was a keeper of forest, and in ballad Little John knows well the paths of Sherwood.

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Water fluoridation ("kool-aid", wormwood) wrecks disadvantaged peoples (like me) lives/health/ability.

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We have made some more discoveries for Deyvilles scenario from this page on Godberd http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/records-of-godberd/ .Ā  See updated "table"/lists at theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/topic/1114/interesting-questions-andor-tidbits?page=2 . (I have since been able to post there again there since that day i wasblocked from posting.)

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I think we have found Sir Guy of Gisbourne.

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It looks like sir Guy of (Good) Gisburn is more likely to be Warin de Bassingburne "who had died", rather than Walter (de_)Ewyas/Devyas/Deuyas/Deyvas/Euyas (who William of Newborough's chronicle claims was hanged in 1272) and/or/of Roger Godberd/Godbert/Gootberd/Gootbert/Godeberd' (at Gerewedon/Garendon). Interestingly Walter Ewyas was indicted (and aquited) for death of William fuiz le Chapeleyn, which might link with the horse skin that Guy wore. (Other considered connections include eve of St Giles 1264?)


(* Capull-hyde = horse skin clad. http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/child/ch118.htm )

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Major correction update. We were wrong about Robin Hood being Robert Deyville, and wrong about Will Scarlet and Much.
It turns out that Robin Hood is actually Roger Godberd after all; and Will Scarlet and Much are in list of Godberds associates. (Though we are not sure which of the few candidates Will Scarlet is, and we aren't sure of about anyone who Much might match.) Little John still may only best match John Deyville though, though there are 2 other leeser possible candidates in list of Godberds associates.

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Candidate matches between Robin Hood characters etc & Roger Godberd characters etc.

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Alan A Dale

~ Anketil de Swaninton? [or Alanus Dale (Giffard 1266-79)?]

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Dick Partington/Patrington

~ Richard de Gaham, parson of Schirlond?

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Gandelyn/Gamelyn [Gam(e)well]
~ (Godberd came at) Gerewedon/Garendon? William fuiz le Chapeleyn?

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Gilbert Whitehand
~ Herbert de St Quintin? or else Walter de Ewyas/Devyas/Deuyas/Deyvas/de Euyas? or (Roger) Godbert? [&/orĀ  St Giles?]

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John Little/LeTall/Naylor (always count money, like brother to RH, "Scot", knows Barnsdale/Sherwood)

~ Et Sire Jo(h)n Deyville/D'Eyvile/deEyvill/deDaiville ("a man clever/cunning/canny (or hard or hot) & a warrior strong/doughty") (keeper of forest) 1260s? or son John Deyville of Adlingfleet (served at Falkirk 1298)? or else John de Haversham? orĀ  John, son of John?

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King & Prince (Bower) / King Edward (Gest)
~ Lord Edward, later king Edward 1 1265/1272/1290/1298?

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Much/Midge (Michael/Mitch/Mickey/Mike) "the Miller's son" (sometimes replaces Will Scarlet as 3rd)

~ William de Mungumry? [&/or quindene/feast/day of St Michael / Michaelmas?] [or Nicholas de la Husā€™?]

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Robin Hood / Robard Hude / Robin Goodfellow / gode Robyn / Robyn(e) Hode / Robin_A-liue / Robin of Loxley ("earl of Huntingdon")

~ Roger (de) Godberd ("says that he has always thereafter conducted himself well and faithfully towards the said king and his heirs and everybody else", lands in Leic(ester(shire))/Leyc) [compare Roger Robelard]? [and possibly Robert_le_Lou (lands in Northants)? and possibly Robert Deyville (family home at Hode/Hood 1264)?]

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Ranulf earl of Chester
~ Reginald de Grey (justice of Chester, Sheriff Nott)? and Godberd imprisoned at Chester? [and possibly steward of Earl of Chester?]

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Reynold (Greenleaf)
~ Reginald de Grey? [and/or Reginald le Porter (Giffard)?] [Gerewedon/Garendon?]

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Sir Richard at Lee (as if 2 diff kts, changed livery 2nd visit)
~ Sir Richard Foliot (changed sides) 1263/4/1271/2? and/or Richard de la Vache/Wache? [and/or Sir John Deyville?]

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Sheriff of Nott
~ Reginald de Grey? William de Grey in conflict with outlaws 1266? John de Balliol Sh of Nott?

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Sir(e) Guy(e) of (Good) Gisb(o)urn(e) (capull-hyde) :
~ Warin de Bassingburne "who had died"? [+ "indicted/aquited for death of William fuiz le Chapeleyn?] [& eve St Giles 1264?]

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Sir/Red Roger of Donkesly/Donkestere/Doncaster [possible insider]
~ Roger de Leukenore/Leukmore? [or (Sir) Roger de Doncaster/Denecastre/Donecastre (1266-79) (Giffard)? or Roger de Doncaster (Nott, 1267-70)?]

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St Austin
~ Augustinians 1256? [or Newstead/NovoLoco of St Augustine c1170 (H2)?]

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St Charity
~ St Calixtus 1266?

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St/Virgin Mary ("our dear lady")
~ "on Saturday next after the feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Mary" 1266? [&/or Margaret?]

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St Quentin
~ Herbert de St. Quintin?

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St Richard of Cirencester
~ St Richard of Cirencester 1262? Richard de Gaham, parson of Schirlond?

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Simon over the Lee the Noble Fisher man (Robin Hood pseudonym)

~ Godberd served under Simon de Montfort Earl of Leicester?

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Will(iam) Scarlock/Scarlet/Gam(e)well) (earl of Maxfield)
~ William brother of Roger Godberd? or Parson of Schirlond? or William de Maysam? or (Walter Ewyas) indicted for murder of William fuiz le Chapeleyn? [or William le Wasteneys "who has died"?]

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Will Stutley
~ Robert de Estutevill/Stutevill/Stute-vil(l)e/estotevile/estutevil(l)e/stotvile?

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William Goldsborough
~ William (brother of Roger) Godbert?

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William aTrent
~ William (le) Wasteneys "who has died" (Godberd)?

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Merry Men / 7 score men

~ Godberd could call on a 100 men? Wrongdoers? [mainpernors?] William de Grey in conflict with outlaws 1266? K Edw recruited men of Sherwood?

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RH d dec 1247/1274

~ Godberd died 1276 / dead 1293? John Deyville died c 1291-5? [or Sheriff Walter de Stirclerle/Stirkelegh 1274?]

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RH & LJ pardoned

~ "Godberd pardoned in 1266 / by K Edw 1"? or John Deyville member of K's household 1285?

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For "God"/Yah, Christ/Yeshua, and Robin Hood/Roger Godberd,

Wishing all genuine people a New Year.

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One final extra possible match:

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Curtal Friar/F(f)rere Tuck(e)/Tuk(e) "of Fountains Dale/Abbey" ("chaplain", "lusty/bawdy", "wore an artificial phallus", "RH offers him a lady free", "Abbot of Misrule", fool)
~ Dick Partington/Patrington
~ Richard de Gaham, parson of Schirlond (of Roger Godberd's band)?
[~ Parson of Chaucer's CTs?]

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Also another possible link between RH and St Peter: does Godberd mean good beard, like the popish "St Peter" [and like Nero, and Papa Smurf] had a bushy white beard? I hope that this is not another case of "Babylon moher of all harlots"? Though RH was not a fan of the bishops in the Gest.

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The Robin Hood - a very oldĀ local pub/eatery burnt down on Christmas eve. Loxely and Ferrers are local names and places here east of Stafford and are said to be associated with Robin Hood. No historian Ā just saying..

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I reckon he was like Ned Ludd, there wasn't one Robin Hood but many who roamed around Nottingham attacking and robbing the rich Norman Lords who took over the estates of former Saxons and Vikings. Reginald de Marc built tow castles ordered by Prince John (Mutton Hill and Annesley wood) to overlook Annesley Hall until it was took over by the Chaworths (Normans). So the locals took to robbing the gentry of the day. Robin Hood would get the blame for all these muggings.

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Thanks for the helpful local info & ideas.

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Just a couple of last extra candidates for matches between Robin Hood characters and Roger Godberd characters:

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David of Doncaster ~ Walter Devyas/Deuyas/Deyvas/de Ewyas/de Euyas? or J/R/N/J Deyville? or Diva?

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(Robin Hood) earl of huntingdon ~ Roger God-berd of Swaneton/Swaninton/Swanington? Anketil of Swanington? or Gerewedon/Garendon?

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George a Green the Pinder of Wakefield ~Ā  Geoffrey Godberd?
or Roger de Remes?

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So the ballads and the writers were right not wrong!

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As usual the problem is i have difficulty writing my discoveries in a form that anyone else (academia, public, etc) can read/understand and see the matches.

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So we have put the matches between Robin Hood and Roger Godberd (& John Deyville) in table form here:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20717&PID=717999#717999

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Anything i need to explain please post questions and i will hope to try answer if i am able re time, etc.

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You are probably right Margie,it's one of those questions thats been asked for years with no definite answer,I think sometimes stuff like that is best left to our imaginations,no disrespect to you Arthur-Robin

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Rog

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At least Arthur-Robin has got his information "out there" on t'internet .

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It may be too detailed for some of us here to take in (speaking personally !) but someone searching the web in the future may find his info very useful.

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Thanks heaps folks.

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There is no doubt now that it is right, it is just the difficulty of having to explain it all in detail in way everyone else can easily see since we all have different ways of seeing things.

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We have found so quality and quantity matches now between heaps of Robin Hood names/persons (and natures) and Roger Godberd names/persons (and natures) that it is certain.

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Just to try break a few explanations down:

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name Robyn Hood / Robard Hude = Roger Godberd.

The 'Gest' says "Gode Robyn" = Roger Godberd.

(Robin Goodfellow confirms? Roger Robelard confirms.)

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Robin Hood was loyal to king etc = Roger Godberd "says that he has always thereafter conducted himself well
and faithfully towards the said king and his heirs and everybody else".

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"Robin Hood earl of Huntingdon" = poetic corruption of Roger God-berd of Swanington.

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Robin once used psuedonym Simon over the Lee the Noble Fisherman = Roger Godberd was of Swanington in Lei-cester (and also served under Simon de Montfort earl of Lei-cester).

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Little John was not "little", was great fighter, etc = John Deyville was a cunning man and strong fighter.

Little John of Hathersage = John de Haversham.

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Robin Hood & Ranulf Earl of Chester in Piers Plowman = Roger Godberd and Ranulf justice of Chester.

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Friar Tuck ("chaplain", "lusty, bawdy") = Richard [Dick] de Gaham parson of Schrilond

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Gilbert White hand = Herbert de St Quintin.

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King Edward = Lord/Prince/King Edward 1.

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Sir Richard at Lee = Sir Richard Foliot.

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Sir Guy of (good) Gisbourne slain by Robin Hood = Warin de Bassingburne 'who had died" ( W / Gu interchange in different spellings of name).

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William aTrent slain in ballad on Guy of Gisbourne = William (le) Wasteneys "who has died"

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