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11 hours ago, MargieH said:

Who are you going to research next, Arthur- Robin?

 

 

Maybe something biblical since i feel a bit worried about not seeking that as much as other things. I have already researched so many things ("(King) Arthur's" 12 battles battle-sites, Robin Hood, Joseph in Egypt, Moses in Egypt, Judge Crater, Jack the Ripper, Atlantis, water fluoridation, Nazareth, Popes & Emperors lists matches, 7 church ages and martyr Antipas of Revelation, etc). Have seeked and (seemingly) discovered so many things but one thing i didn't discover was life most abundant. (I also haven't yet found out about my real grandfather the ww2 Italian pow in Notts in 1946.) I also have other life things i need and want to do. Where i am at now (after so many lost years) is only hope now for future is that God/Yhwh/Yeshua will give me life and let me continue studies.

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Getting used to seeing the Robins around town and quite like the idea of bringing a bit of colour to the streets. In fact today I took photos of a couple of them on my travels. Here I present the

Catfan, apart from brightening the streets up and encouraging people to discover each and every Robin, they will be auctioned off at the end of the season and all proceeds will go to The Nottinghamshi

One more point if I may. It's pretty much certain that Clough will be remembered the A52 Nottingham to Derby is named after him, as to T&D every time I hear the bolero I think of them.

You have researched many things, Arthur-Robin.  If this is what makes you happy, then I wish you well with future searches.   

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I'm going to put a new tentative theory that Robin Hood's grave is really under or near/by Major Oak in Edwinstowe in "the heart of Sherwood".

 

Robin Hoods grave is in some sources connected with a tree?
Major Oak is ca 800 yrs old and "would have been a sapling at the time of Robin Hood" or is supposed to have been "a full grown tree" then, and it might have been planted then or RH buried near/by/under it? A photograph of the "most famously of all" tree gives the impression to my imagination that the tree and site/place may well be RH's burial site. (Sherwood trees inscriptions might have connection with RH and/or Little John? Instead of being outlaws "hideout", Major Oak may rather hiding place of RH's grave? "RH is supposed to have hidden in it". Compare similar tradition of RH grave underneath a wardrobe in an inn? Perhaps the slain deer that RH hid in the other tree RH's Larder is the burial place of Guy of Gisbourne?)

Prioress of Kirklees is similar to the parson of Schirlond in Roger Godberd records? (The parson of Schirlond might also be whence the C(h)lorinda name of Maid Marian?) Schirlond is similar to Kirklond/Birkland(s) in the Edwinstowe/Sherwood area. Kirklees or ChurchLees is alternatively Bircklies which is also similar to Kirklond/Birkland(s) or Dukeries. Perhaps compare Kirton Schidrintune? Scarletecros 1280?
Kirklees in Yorks is too far from Sherwood (and even Barnsdale), while Major Oak is right in the heart of Sherwood and close to Nottingham.

Red Roger of (de) Donkesly/Doncaster might be Reg(inald) de Grei/Grey justice of Chester (royalist in barons revolt, sheriff of Nottingham, connected with Godberd throughout their timelines, Benison said cryptically "it was he who caused RG's downfall"). The name "(Sir/Red) Roger of Donkesley/Doncaster" could easily be corruption of names/words Sheriff grey Roy Reg Reginald Roger(Godberd) de deGrei Chester? Alot of RH *ballads* names seem to have similar corruptions of Godberd records names.

The prioress of Kirklees "Elizabeth de Stainton" might be linked with Margaret or Diva de Swaninton/Swaneton in Roger Godberd records? (Robin Hoods grave inscription similarily corrupt?)

St Mary's Edwinstowe might have connection with RH's chapel of Mary Magdalene (though Skelbrooke may be more likely), or with the "prioress of Kirklees"?

 

See Godberd records for more info on details:

http://home.att.net/~sylveastan/mayday/indextimeline.htm

https://www.preceden.com/timelines/66430-robin-hood
http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/records-of-godberd/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/content/articles/2008/04/30/real_robin_hood_feature.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Godberd
( http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/robert-hod-cambridge/ .)

And my Robin Hood & Godberd correspondences table at http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20717 .

 

(If i am wrong about the grave site then i also have a couple/few other candidates.)

 

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I suppose we'll just never know, Arthur Robin,  even though you have done so much research.  I just enjoy the films about Robin Hood, even though they are, almost certainly, very inaccurate.   

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Carlton, some interesting stuff on there, but also differing accounts... as I said on a previous post, I suppose we'll never know for certain who Robin Hood actually was, when and where he actually lived or whether he actually robbed just the rich to give to the poor!    I just love the stories and films, whether they're inaccurate or not...

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I think the stories and films are what made him so popular to our generation, but of course without knowing who he was the films and books, of necessity have to be fiction, and of course the reality is going to be different.

 

I wasn't aware there were two differing accounts, you seem to have spotted something I haven't, I wonder what it is?

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Carlton, I suppose I was referring to other accounts about the life of Robin Hood that I have read..... e.g. that he may have lived in the 13th century  and not the 15th and that he may not have been of noble birth.   If Robin Hood met with Edward 111 3 years before the future King Richard was born, as it says in the link you posted,  then he (RH) would possibly be already 50+ at the beginning of the 15th century - not the dashing young hero we like to imagine!   There are so many different accounts one can read..... who knows.   

 

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7 hours ago, MargieH said:

Carlton, I suppose I was referring to other accounts about the life of Robin Hood that I have read..... e.g. that he may have lived in the 13th century  and not the 15th and that he may not have been of noble birth.   If Robin Hood met with Edward 111 3 years before the future King Richard was born, as it says in the link you posted,  then he (RH) would possibly be already 50+ at the beginning of the 15th century - not the dashing young hero we like to imagine!   There are so many different accounts one can read..... who knows.   

 

 

Thank you for the input Margie (is that O.K.) it is always nice to have feedback. Robin would have been born around the same time as John Gisbourne, it fits with other events, Gisbourne was born in 1336. The early date appears to be a misunderstanding perpetuated for ever and a day by John Major who was living in France at the time and he may have meant King John of France, which fits perfectly. 

 

Barbara A. Buxton writes, “The legal and royal records for the reigns of Richard I and King John are quite adequate to detail Robin’s offences, but they do not. Neither is the name of the sheriff ever mentioned even though the names of sheriffs were recorded as far back as 1135. There were no friars in the England of King John, the first came to England in 1221.

 

Professor Holt confirms the above, saying Robin was active in the later medieval period. He writes, “the “Geste of Robin Hood” was written circa 1450 and all the literature, the setting and the dates are in this later medieval period. “Major’s conception about a 13th century Robin Hood was not reinforced by argument, evidence, or proof it was simply recycled through later versions of the tale and so became part of the legend. Neither is this view supported by the earliest ballads, they name the reigning monarch as “Edward.” 

 

This accords with Professor Thomas Ohlgren who writes the Geste was “commissioned by one of the fifteenth-century guilds-possibly the Dyers Guild in the light of the many references to cloth and liveries-to commemorate Edward III not only as the protector of the English Channel but as the founder of seven of the twelve Great Livery Companies.

Thank you.

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Carlton.... So did RH kill his stepfather, I wonder, and was he really of noble birth?  Again,  I have read conflicting accounts.  

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1 hour ago, MargieH said:

Carlton.... So did RH kill his stepfather, I wonder, and was he really of noble birth?  Again,  I have read conflicting accounts.  

 

It was only the children of noblemen who were taught archery and both Richard Grafton printer to Henry VIII and John Leyland the father of English local history confirm his noble status. 

 

Regarding Robin's stepfather, there was Sir Thomas de Sheffield who was born and died in Wadsley (Loxley is to Wadsley as Carlton is to Nottingham). He married an heiress to the Huntingdon earldom and died in as I say in Wadsley in 1348 when Robin was young, I guess about age twelve.

 

Thanks.

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On 20/07/2015 at 6:44 PM, Arthur-Robin said:

I did a search of the forum on Robin Hood and was surprised to find there are no major topics/threads on Robin Hood, though there are a few on him. So i thought i would post a thread/topic on Robin Hood, though i am not sure i will be able to follow/reply it very much (other things i really need/want to do soon if/when i can).

The idea is to see if we can find historical evidence of where/when/who RH was. People can also post links to RH sites

7

 

As a native of "Robin Hood Country" I can say that this person has had little or no interest to me and I would guess that applies to most Nottinghamians and Nottstalgians - apart from those connected with history or the tourist industry.

 

As a child, I remember Richard Green's interpretation and also, a bit later, that of the awful Jason Connery (007's son) but I watched those with the same amount of interest as I showed to Roger Moore's Ivanhoe or to Conrad Phillips William tell - a minor entertainment distraction on at Saturday/Sunday teatime. I felt no local connection with RH whatsoever although, if the stories are correct, his and my steps must have crossed numerous times (at different periods of history, of course).

 

Since leaving Nottingham and being quizzed on where I am from, my response of "Nottingham" invariably evokes "Robin Hood" from the questioner or some rendition of the theme tune from the TV series. Even here in France, there is an immediate association with "Robeen 'Ood".

 

Am I wrong in thinking that the majority of Nottinghamians (not only Nottstalgians) have a similar low or nil interest in RH and that is the reason for the surprise expressed by the originator of the thread?

 

Certainly, Nottingham has a vast and fascinating history - a lot of it, I'm sure, still waiting to be discovered but I feel that over-concentration and romanticising on one, possibly mythical, person rather blinkers potentially more interesting and more important archaeology.

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18 minutes ago, jonab said:

Am I wrong in thinking that the majority of Nottinghamians (not only Nottstalgians) have a similar low or nil interest in RH and that is the reason for the surprise expressed by the originator of the thread?

 

Yes, I think you are very wrong. Most people in Nottingham see Robin Hood as one of the main reasons why Nottingham is known and recognised around the world. If you ask someone "what's the first thing which comes into your mind if I say Nottingham" a great number would say Robin Hood...along with Brian Clough or Torvill & Dean. There's also a belief among many Nottm residents that the council and other bodies don't do enough to promote the Robin Hood connection; it's a massively underused asset.

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Robin Hood is a mythological figure but if his name brings in the tourists and brings money into the County then the myth should be preserved. Brian Clough was, and Torvill and Dean are, real people and are still connected with area. If their names help to bring in money to the County that’s good. When I used to travel extensively abroad on business my connection with Nottingham was generally  greeted with the words “Ah, Brian Clough!:biggrin: Robin Hood was not mentioned.

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Cliff Ton,

I may have expressed myself rather unclearly. What I meant was to do with the amount of thought and interest that the general populace Nottinghamians have in the Robin Hood myth/legend/whatever it is. I fully accept that it is this that may keep Nottingham in the minds of the world - I have that demonstrated to me on an almost daily basis but the importance of RH on me, personally has been nil.

 

Of course, it is important to maintain world interest in RH and long may that continue - and increase if it is the case that the authorities are not doing enough. His name will be around much longer than Clough or Torville & Dean. They have had no influence on me or other Nottinghamians either.

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Carlton, you state that only the children of noblemen were taught archery, maybe at first but it did not last.

 

By the time of the battle of Falkirk 1298 things were changing and quickly, the English armies just needed too many bowmen.

 

By the early 1300s the English had come up with the war bow this had a draw weight of some 160-180lbf and needed many hours of practice to use properly that's why an archers skeleton is so easily recognised.

 

By the time of Crecy 1346 the English fielded 4500 English bowmen and 2000 Welsh far to many to be aristocracy who by then were mainly armoured knights the bowmen being rank and file so to speak.

 

Then we have games banned on a Sunday so that ordinary men could practice the bow and a further edict stating that 'all sorts of men under the age of 40 should have a bow along with arrows and practice with them'.

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Jonab, I'm saddened by your comment regarding Brian Clough and T&D. They certainly have had a great influence on many Nottinghamians and Nottstalgians. They all through their deeds put Nottingham firmly on the map. Many current Forest fans saw their first games in the Clough / Taylor era, and I'm certain that many young kids took up skating thanks to T & D. 

The Nottingham Arena is testament to their skating success, and it is a credit to them. Over the years, I've seen many acts, shows etc there, and visitors from around the country fill Nottinghamshire coffers.

We should not deride or denigrate the efforts of people who've done well and been successful in their relationship with Notts. 

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I'm not deriding or denigrating anyone. I am thinking about the bigger picture in history. How much will they be remembered in two, three or more centuries time, as Mr Hood has done?

 

It seems that my posts have been misunderstood. Perhaps it's because English is now my second language and I mostly think in French and then translate from that to English. This is in addition to red herrings having been introduced in the form of Clough, Torville & Dean.

 

My original contribution was directed at the importance, or otherwise, that Nottinghamians and Nottstalgians attach to Robin Hood in their lives and how much influence that has had. I ventured to suggest very little unless you're employed in the Robin Hood industry.

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No, you've not been misunderstood, I understand where you're coming from. Personally, I think they will be remembered by future generations. Especially within the sporting fraternity. 

As for the local authorities promoting RH, I think there is so much more that they could do. Especially with regard to Nottingham Castle, which to be honest is a joke, and a scruffy one at that ! 

Just imagine what the Americans would achieve had RH been theirs ! He'd rank alongside Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie and the Alamo. 

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11 minutes ago, FLY2 said:

Just imagine what the Americans would achieve had RH been theirs ! He'd rank alongside Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie and the Alamo. 

1

 

Nottingham Disneyworld

 

They already tried it, I understand, when they converted the Old Corner Pin to a Disney store. Fortunately, it failed. I can just see Mickey Mouse and Snow White greeting punters at the entrance to the Castle - or not!

 

Apologies, Arthur-Robin, this is going way off topic.

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2 hours ago, NewBasfordlad said:

Carlton, you state that only the children of noblemen were taught archery, maybe at first but it did not last.

 

By the time of the battle of Falkirk 1298 things were changing and quickly, the English armies just needed too many bowmen.

 

By the early 1300s the English had come up with the war bow this had a draw weight of some 160-180lbf and needed many hours of practice to use properly that's why an archers skeleton is so easily recognised.

 

By the time of Crecy 1346 the English fielded 4500 English bowmen and 2000 Welsh far to many to be aristocracy who by then were mainly armoured knights the bowmen being rank and file so to speak.

 

Then we have games banned on a Sunday so that ordinary men could practice the bow and a further edict stating that 'all sorts of men under the age of 40 should have a bow along with arrows and practice with them'.

 

Yes, you are right, archery practice became compulsory on Sundays by order of Edward I. I nearly included sword and quarterstaff among Robin's skills but was pushed for time. Point being, according to the ballads, Robin took part in archery contests against the best and won. I don't know if the average villager was up to that.

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^^^Think your right on that one the main use of the bow in battle was the 'arrow storm'. However there must have been some very good archers if they practiced enough for it to alter their skeletal remains.

 

Didn't someone write an account of Falkirk where it was said the Scots ran looking like 'hedge hogs'?

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