Remembrance

[mercurydancer 1,104]

Its that time of year again. I wear my poppy with pride, but it has taken me on a line of thought. I may be being a little idealistic, or even somewhat daft, but I'll explain.

Every year, I visit the huge graves of the Somme, Pas De Calais and Flanders, sometimes to be a battlefield guide, sometimes for research, but most often, its because I want to understand and appreciate those who lay there.

I have noticed, to my great joy, a type of remembrance. It is possible because of the internet. People can now find the photographs of their relations from WW1 and WW2 and print the photo and paste it onto a standard issue British Legion cross, and they put this cross (or other prints) on the grave. I have seen it many times on those huge grave sites.

This is something that for me makes the people who lay there seem human again, real people, who we can relate to no matter what the horrors of their demise.

I appreciate that it may, even after 100 years, be uncomfortable for some, but perhaps it would be an act of remembrance to find photos and if they died, we can match a face to a grave. I would personally find this illuminating and an act of deep respect.

I know it is a sensitive subject, and if I have gone too far then I would respect that.

[Michael Booth 7,364]

My sentiments entirely, mercurydancer. Despite the wars being such a long time ago it would mean such a lot to the families. My uncle died at sea, as I've mentioned on another topic, so it wouldn't apply to him. I think it's a great idea.

[BilboroughShirley 1,120]

I agree with you that the photos are a lovely idea. It is so important that we remember those who died in the wars. My grandmother's eldest brother was killed in the first world war. This was before my mum was born. My grandmother was very close to her brother and my mum spoke affectionately of Uncle Allan even though she never knew him. He left a wife and three little children. His memory is kept alive by the wider extended family. I have used the internet as you describe and found a photo and map of where his grave is. We have not visited war graves in France but last year my husband and I visited Eccleshill in Bradford and found his name on the beautiful and well maintained war memorial there. I have a letter he wrote to my grandparents before he went to France. I share all this information with my son and also with extended family members that I am in contact with.

We will remember them.

[Trevor S 2,003]

Lest we forget

[Michael Booth 7,364]

Yours was such a lovely post, BilboroughShirley. I could feel the love and pride that you feel for him as I read your post.

[mercurydancer 1,104]

Bilboroughshirley

That is the essence of what I have proposed. Its what I have heard many times in the many military parades I have attended.

We will remember them.

[Oztalgian 3,271]

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning

We will remember them"

These words and the sounding of the last post always brings a lump to my throat and a tear to my eyes.

Both my late mum and dad fought in the second world war and my mums father in the first.

I am proud to have been named after my mums brother who lost his life at Dunkirk and therefore carry that memory always.

Let us also not forget all those that died on the "home front" particularly during the second world war.

[DJ360 6,721]

Fortunately, my Grandad Jack Whyman MM, survived. I've posted his picture elsewhere here, in the Bulwell thread I think. One of Jack's brothers died in WW1. and a picture was recently published in a Nottm paper. My Mum's cousin died in the far East in WW2 and his grave is known.

Whilst we should and must honour and remember all those who gave their lives in war, I think it is also important to widen the concept of Remembrance.

By this, I mean that we should remind ourselves of the horror and futility of war and the lasting effects it has not only in terms of the dead, but the impact on those who remain. DIY SOS on TV has recently highlighted the impact in terms of PTSD and physical disability on veterans of the Gulf, Afghanistan etc. We can only guess how many shattered minds, bodies and relationships limped on for years after WW1 and WW2.

My Dad survived several years in German and Polish POW camps after being landed in Norway in 1940, without weapons and promptly captured. He rarely spoke about any of it, but people who knew him as a cheerful and confident lad before he went, always told me how different he was on his return, and how he always seemed somewhat 'haunted'. Without wanting to 'wallow' in it, this had 'knock ons' for My Mum, and for us kids. This must be repeated thousands of times over

around the country and yet most suffer in silence.

When we quite rightly remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice, we should also spare a thought for all those living with the consequences of war.

When I was briefly a local councillor, I had the honour of laying a wreath on Remebrance Sunday, both at our village war memorial, and in St Helens, which is my nearest town. I found it very moving.

Col

[mercurydancer 1,104]

DJ360 you are entirely right. The consequences of war are immense. Believe me as a soldier I know.

However, my intent was that for the slabs of portland stone, there should be a photograph of the soldier (or airman, or naval for that matter) that lays beneath, so that we can recognise him as a person, and not as just a casualty.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

Loughborough's war memorial

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loughborough_Carillon

[Robbie 39]

Like many on here I too have a sad story about the horrors of war.

My great granddad who signed up on the 12 December 1917 was killed in action on the 25 April 1918 in the trenches at Bois L'abbe, France and was buried at Adelaide Cemetery, Villers-Bretonneux.

But the sad thing is that his wife my great grandma also died in the same year on 26 November 1918 of the Spanish Flu, 7 months after him, leaving behind my granddad who was brought up my his aunts.

My granddad went on to be a RAF rear gunner on Wellington bombers during the second world war, although l was close to my granddad he very rarely spoke about the war.

[Bubblewrap 3,815]

That's the case of many who served during both world wars.

My father was too young(born 1926) to see active service during the second war but he did serve

His main contribution was with the graves commission exhuming & reburying servicemen in some of the cemeteries during 1945-47.

My farther very rarely spoke of his army service.

[Chulla 4,946]

Remembrance can be a very comforting personal experience (for want of better words). I remember seeing a programme on TV about the Viet Nam memorial wall in Washington DC. A mother was walking down it looking the for name of her son. She found him and ran her fingers through his inscribed name. At last she was back with him. It touches me every time I think of this.

[mercurydancer 1,104]

That verse, " We shall remember them" I have spoken in public three times.

Once as a young officer. It is an army tradition that youngest get to pay respects at certain times. I was proud, but I barked out the prayer like it was an order. Our older selves can look back but cannot alter. I could have done it better now, but at the time, as a subaltern, I just wanted to get through the day without making a prat of myself.

Two decades later, I was asked to lead the prayer. My voice broke on the middle of the four sentences. I recall it well, I barely managed to get to the last sentence due to me becoming emotional.

The third occasion was, in a way, timeless, but not in place. It was in Yrpres Market Square. Menin Gate. It was not a time of parade, but I do recall, in every sense of the word, my voice echoed around the market place. " We will remember them"

And so we shall.

[DJ360 6,721]

Mercurydancer. Re: #9. Yes, I understood that and entirely agree.

Col

[Guest]

Very fitting posts,I have several photographs and framed tributes of my relations near a 109 year old clock that tick tocks the same as when Notts & Derby Cpl Upton was alive in Mansfield. I have some lovely photographs of the war grave in France.

[mercurydancer 1,104]

iandawson

I do battlefield tours and one of the most evocative things I can do is to put a photograph of the person who lies below and to make them live again in memory.

I do a tour of the Somme battle field and there is someone from Hyson Green who I have researched quite extensively but I still do not know what he looked like. I have seen photographs of his company but I cant tell who he is. I know where he lived, where he enlisted, where he trained, where he embarked for France, where his trench was, and exactly the moment he died.

My grandfather's military history was somewhat disreputable. (now I know where I get it from) but I know lots about him. He died a month before I was born. A few years back, I traced his position in the rear to his position in the Ypres trenches where he was badly wounded. I walked it in the uniform of the time and most especially, the boots of the time. With modern footwear it would not have been difficult but with ammunition boots on my feet it hurt badly within a couple of miles. The boots were broken in too. By the time I had passed Menin Gate my feet were raw. One blister was almost down to the tendon. The worst was walking on cobblestones. In rubber-based footwear it doesnt affect you much. With leather soles it turns your whole ankle on a tread between the cobbles. It didnt rain on my walk, but with heavy dress, if it had got wet, it would have been horrible. If my boots had got wet, it would have been unendurable for me. It gave me a perspective on the war that I had not really understood before. I say it was a walk, because I did not march. I took my own time to cover the distance.

My inspiration for such a daft act was John Keegan's book, Face of Battle. It looked at battle from exactly as the participants saw it, with the same kit. I learnt a lot about WW1 then. I did have the immense privilege of getting to a hotel in Ypres, where I felt very sorry for myself with feet like uncooked burgers and ankles which hurt. I ate and drank at a local bar. None of this would have been available for the soldiers. All in all, they did it so I could do that.

[Guest]

Never thought about something as simple as footwear Mercury,I will relay some of my relations details later tonight..will find correct information.. regards,Ian.

[Guest]

Details of a brave man,L/cpl William Upton,9th battalion, notts and derby regt.KIA 4.11.18, buried in Sebourg British cemetery.

[FLY2 10,108]

I must get one of those little wooden crosses to put on my paternal grandfathers plaque now that I've found it in the Rock Cemetery near the Forest. He's not really there, he's buried in Gallipoli at the Helles Cemetery, which is in present day Turkey. He lived on Haydn Rd then.

[Guest]

Fly,I like this subject- I bet the circumstances in which our relations perished were horrendous. My Dad obtained a report on my grand uncles death and his last movements.. grim to say the least.

[FLY2 10,108]

My maternal grandfather was killed on the first day of the Somme. His remains were never found.

[mercurydancer 1,104]

I will be in London for the Remembrance parade. I will be a guest of the Grenadier Guards. This is because I was in RAMC. We are made welcome anywhere where a soldier needs help. In practical terms this means I will be very drunk by the end of the day, on champagne and port. I look forward to it.

With the focus on WW1, the Germans didnt just give up and walked back, they were defeated. The British troops were fundamental in turning over the Germans in those final weeks of the war. The Russians certainly stopped any eastward advance. 46 Midland Division achieved things that were inconceivable even one year previously. St Quentin Canal for one. Good soldiers.

What does surprise me is the melancholia of the post war period. Its not just Sassoon and Owen, it was, and remains, a great national sadness, which we are approaching now, a century later, and it is little diminished. With so many hundreds of thousands dead, no country could emerge victorious, but given the time and the circumstance, of late October 1918, around now, before winter really caused problems, the British, Americans, Canadians, NZ, South African and the French forced peace. This was an achievement. Armistice Day was fought for. It did not just happen out of nothing. At 11am on 11 November no matter where I am, I will stand at attention for two minutes in silence.

[The Pianoman 1,532]

My maternal grandfather was killed on the first day of the Somme. His remains were never found.

My grandmothers first husband was injured on the first day of the Somme. He was shipped back home and died of his injuries later in July 1916. He is no relation to me whatsoever but the fact that he was my grandmothers first husband does seem to make me interested in him. If he had turned out to be my grandfather I would be a completely different person I suppose. I guess I would only have been about 5' tall. He was a Bantam in Notts & Derby Regiment Sherwood Foresters, so was under 5' 3". My grandmother was only about 4' 11". He is buried in General Cemetery - somewhere!

[Guest]

Ninety eight years ago on this very day my Grand Uncle William Upton lost his life in contributing to the " soon" ending of WW1. Thanks and gratitude to a Nottstalgia member who recently researched this fellow for me.A kind and spontaneous act indeed,I have said my prayers today and feel safe that the existence that we all have today is down to the fallen soldiers of the past...Cheers to a brave Meadows man!!