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Still having difficulty in locating My Great Grandmother Mary Harvey and her eldest son Ernest on the 1891 census. The nearest I have found is this one in the Basford Workhouse. Thanks to Ancestry free at the mo'. Question is, would she have been allowed or even been able to keep her 3 year old son with her in a workhouse? Also are the two dittos below Mary Harvey there just because they are also Harvey or are they dittoed because they are to do with Mary Harvey. Any suggestions folks?

Also, Mary Harvey here says she was born at Bulwell but my Mary Harvey was born at Flintham - but how much notice should I take of that?

Aaah and I have just noticed it also says she is married. Thought it was a V in brackets (V)

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I worked for some time converting an old Workhouse.. some very bad things happened here..always freezing..during my lunch break a wall collapsed, revealing a secret room- full of chests containing documents.. the Church had such power given what I read..poor wretches dispatched to Van Demons Land. I spent a month cataloguing the whole lot.

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One of the nastiest pieces of legislation was the "1834 poor law amendment act"

Which set up the Union Workhouse system

There are some good books on the subject

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The is also a book titled The Workhouse by Norman Longmate

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#1 there is a Mary Harvey(Lace Dresser) age 38 and Allen Harvey age 41, living at 76 Oxford Street Bulwell on the 1901 Census. They are the ones on the 1891 Census in the Workhouse. They have the two children with them, John age 19, William age 10 plus Nellie Marvin? (Surname?) stepdaughter and grandson age 8months Gerter Marvin They may be the wrong ones but worth a look.

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Wierd! Some time ago I wrongly ordered a death certificate for Mary Harvey who turned out to be a widow of Alan Harvey 31 Oxford Street

This is it:

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Pianoman

I don't think it is your Mary in the workhouse. In both the 1911 and the 1901 census there is your Mary born in Flintham and another Mary Harvey born in Bulwell which is more than likely the one in the workhouse.

Was Harvey her nee name?

One of my grandfathers was born in a workhouse and carried his mothers' name until she married a few years later.

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No. The Mary Harvey in the workhouse is no relation to me. My G Grandmother Mary Harvey was born Mary Harvey and died Mary Harvey ie she never married. She is the one born at Flintham. I have every record for her, Birth cert., death cert, whereabout in 1947 year before she died at 93 Melbourne Road and every census 1871-1911 except 1891. She gave birth to an illegitimate Ernest in 1888 who I cannot find a birth record for either. It is the period 1888-91 that is a missing piece of the jigsaw. I have I believe now found Ernest on the 1911 census as being a stoker in the Navy living at Fort Blockhouse, Gosport. That follows as he quite likely did what thousands of others have done and joined up to get away from a bad home. I am well aware that the Harvey household was bad!

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I have found three Ernest Harveys all born 1888 A/M/J. No mothers maiden name added at that time.

Ernest Harvey.....Newmarket....3b 547

Ernest Harvey....Chelmsford...4a 429

Ernest George Harvey....Greenwich....1d 1019

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Regarding Oxford Street, Bulwell. I'd never heard of it until I discovered an old photo of my dad as a very young child. He was with some elder people on Oxford Street, a photo that I put on Nottstalgia as I wanted to know where it was. It makes you wonder if he had any connection with the people mentioned.

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#15. I am assuming that Ernest Harvey was born Somewhere in a circle Flintham, Kneeton and and somewhere dahnt Medders. If the 1911 census discovery I made yesterday is him, it does say that he was born in Nottingham

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Good luck Malcolm, I will be watching with interest.

When I started my Tree, I bought a few books on how to go about it. In some of them we were informed that the Census records could be a bit unreliable at times, owing to the fact that people could basically say anything they wanted. If someone wanted to disappear, it was as easy as not putting their name down, and also genuine mistakes made. Mary might have been staying with someone on the day of the Census and just not entered on the form.

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#18 I agree Carni and also quite often names were written down incorrectly. I spent ages looking for Lambert which I knew was the correct name and eventually I found the family in Ancestry index as Hambert. Looking at the census image it was clear enough so an indexer had misread it. Must be a hard job doing the indexing! Also for some areas only the census summary books are available and that is a pain as they have less information.

Doing the family history unearths some sad stories and some lovely ones. On one of my branches 3 brothers were transported to Tasmania for stealing 2 sheep. In the same year my 3X great grandfather on another branch was the master of a workhouse and his wife was the matron. I was more horrified by this than by the transportation. We have visited Southwell workhouse and it is grim and the Dickens character Mr Bumble was horrible. This made me do some research into the documents about this workhouse and what happened there in 1840. I found that my ancestor paid for all the inmates to have full Christmas dinner so perhaps he might have been OK. Sadly the family of one of the brothers who were transported ended up in a workhouse.

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I visited someone a long time ago 1960/70s who was homed in the old Southwell Workhouse. I have the name Greet House in my mind, but not sure. It was a kind of refuge. It made a lasting impression in my mind, left me with sad memories for the people I saw there.

Conditions then couldn't be compared to the awful lives of the inmates of workhouses. Lots of desperate people about in the 1800s. It sounds as if your ancestor was one of the good guys Shirley.

Slightly off topic, but take a look at the sentences dished out to these people, deportation for just about everything.

.http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/resources/files/convicts.pdf

Sorry,I'll get back on topic now

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Thanks. I reckon that is the same Ernest Harvey that I have found at Fort Blockhouse, but I only have the census info. There is one word on there that leads me to believe that it is the Ernest Harvey I am looking for - Platelayer. If his Father, like the rest of Mary Harvey's offspring's was William Cumberpatch, he may for a while have followed in his fathers footsteps as he was a platelayer on the railways too.

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I'm pretty sure you will have this record Malcolm, but just in case.This is from the 1901 Census. Mary age 37 is the head of the household and Ernest is age 13, along with some siblings and a couple of other people. I can't make out the address on the form but it looks like 21 Queens Grove,Meadows? I still can't find anything on the 1891 Census, could be the pages were lost or damaged, or for their own reasons, might not have registered, it did happen.

Name Age Mary Harvey 37 Ernest Harvey 13 Edward Harvey 7 George Harvey 5 William Harvey 3 Dorothy Harvey 2 Sarah Wood 50 Frank E Wood 17

Will keep looking.

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Yes thanks I have got that one. I just wonder who Sarah and Frank Wood were. She named another son born 1902 Frank. After that Frank I wonder??

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