You Couldn't Make this Up !


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Makes sense, Fly.

 

I won't get into the university thing too much as I know I could stir up a hornets nest and I don't want to do that.  I never attended a UK university anyway.

 

What seems to be the case here, is that a lot of universities are serving up Mickey Mouse degrees that many employers are not interested in.  They are not worth the paper they are written on.  Many include courses on 'Gender studies' 'feminist issues' etc.. Really just an excuse for four years of partying and drunkeness.  They come out well indoctrinated in the PC views of the day ready for a job at McDonalds with a govt financed debt which will probably just be written off at taxpayer expense.  Seems like everyone, including the students themselves are being scammed.

 

Like I said in the previous post, what do I know, I'm just a Dinosaur.  Maybe the Uni's should start teaching some courses on common sense.  It would be a step in the right direction.

 

Edited to add.  If these trades people are being imported it is a recipe for future problems.  If that supply should dry up, for whatever reason, The UK would be in dire straights.

Canada was often accused of importing tradesmen from Europe when I moved there, but to give them credit they did have their own appreticeship program.  Us Limey's often ended up training them. :biggrin:

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I volunteer as a community ambulance car driver and recently picked up a lady to take her to a hospital appointment. I greeted her with "hello sweetheart, going to the eye clinic are we?" "Tut tut" so

For any youngster reading this.   If you want a great education free and are prepared to work hard join HM forces as an officer.   My friends grandson went to what is now known as

Another dinosaur here too Loppy. No further education for me either, just a good work ethic, an ability to try and attain a better standard of living, an ability to prioritise necessities....... Oh ! and the highest qualification possible from the university of life, and the world of hard knocks !

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It is very rarely, if ever, that I have agreed with anything the Telegraph published.  Much less when it is written by Boris Johnson.  But this makes a refreshing read.  Boris, in full flow and explaining that, as ever.. the simple answer is usually wrong. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3642172/Mickey-Mouse-degrees-are-just-the-job.html

 

Whilst there are clearly some degrees out there for which it is difficult to see an obvious career association, I will point out one more time.  The point of a degree unless it is for a specific profession such as Medicine etc., is to allow the student to demonstrate intellectual capacity, organisation, 'stickability', etc.etc. at an advanced level.  In a very real sense, the actual subject doesn't matter in a lot of cases. Huge numbers of careers, and huge numbers of post graduate/higher degrees, are open to people with a sufficiently good pass in ANY  first degree.  

 

What matters is the intellectual challenge and achievement.  Apart from things like Medicine etc., most people who have a degree have forgotten most of what they studied within a few years.  This doesn't matter because memorising facts was not the purpose of the degree study.  The purpose was to develop analytical skills, thought processes, research capability, understanding etc., etc. 

 

 

Col

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I don't want to get into the university, Tory, Labour, Daily Mail, Mirror, Telegraph, Guardian, Thatcher argument either, as it will only get several of us embroiled in politics again. 

It will suffice to say that you only get out of life what you put into it. I've stated this several times in various topics. 

Needless to say...... Folk should get of their backsides and do something about it. Idleness should not be tolerated under any circumstances, although there are many these days who just want the world to be handed to them on a plate. 

I know of two young chaps in their late 30's and early 40's who run a very successful international business that reaps good rewards, but they work ridiculous hours, and travel worldwide drumming up business and partaking in very intricate negotiations. 

But.... They've got off their ar5es and are successful, by not resting on their laurels, and taking the easy road in life.

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I think we've come full circle on that, Col and I don't disagree with you.

 

I think the main issue is that there may be some bright kids out there, academically speaking, but they don't necessarily have the coping skills or sense of purpose in life to be in a college environment anyway.  They waste four years, assuming they don't drop out and come out with little more purpose than they went in. A loss to themselves and society.

 

I found the first year of theology studies much harder than I expected, but I persevered because I had a definite outcome in view.  I think the prof' in Greek class gave me a pass because he took pity on me.  :rolleyes:

 

Seems to me that in the past the Uni's provided a classical education in history, languages, the sciences.  These were tailored to provide a sound basis for a job in academia, engineering, medical, aeronautics and other fields.  Today it often seems as though the outcome is of little foundational use for anything.

 

University was mainly for the few, gifted in those areas and was financially out of reach for most of us.  So we made out quite well in other fields.

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Apprenticeships the question is what apprenticeships.

 

As far as I can see there are very very few real apprenticeships these days. It doesn't seem to matter what colour the government they have no idea what a real apprenticeship is, so they call any training an apprenticeship even down to making coffee. Now you may need to be taught how to make coffee or tea, I was when I started work it took almost an entire day, but by the next mornings tea break I had it sussed a sore earhole ensured that.

 

In my view an apprenticeship is practical and theoretical training over an extended period to produce a craftsman. The decline as Col stated was getting rid of the training boards this was exacerbated when the minimum wage was introduced, small business's just can't afford to employ non earners along with all the other costs involved. People in government didn't understand that craft skills were and are important they thought then and now that only higher education counts.

 

Any way enough of that I am off down town to see if there any of the bladdered fresher dollies still hanging around or whether they have all been picked up of the ground and got to class.

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I think it is very hard for school leavers now days, when we left school you could finish one job on the Friday and start another on the Monday. 

I would have loved to  have gone to Uni but I just was not up to that standard so I did an apprenticeship in hairdressing later having two salon's and at the age of 40 taking my O" level English and teacher trainer course 730. 

Now days apprenticeships and NVQ s gave youngsters  some thing to aim for even though they are not the same apprenticeships that we had. Not every one can go to UNI someone has to do the manual work. I don't agree with zero hour contracts or contracts that say hour's has required. The way this country is going on we will soon have kids back up chimneys. We need EDUCATION, EDUCATION, and what happened to the Shop and Factory Acts, some people called the unions but at least they were on our side.

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In agreement with a lot said on here and I certainly agree that we shouldn't be slipping into a political fight.  Just so long as we each get to have our say. I've had mine except for this last point.

 

I think every generation faces its own challenges.  Our parents had it tougher than us what with depression and war.  We had it tough on the material front.  'Things' were hard to come by.  Nowadays 'things' are easy to get on the whole.  We all ( i.e.not just youngsters.) . can get phones, TV's , computers etc.  We would not have dreamed it possible 50 years ago.

 

We look back on our times of steam trains and full employment with fondness, and rightly so.. But there was also appalling poverty, slums, Polio, poorer health care, smog etc.

 

On the other hand, at least after WWII, which most of us just missed... we had a lot of certainty in our lives... and a lot of optimism. There was work if you wanted it.  No, we couldn't all go to uni, or have cars, or posh houses, but we knew there was a World out there which we could make a success of if we were prepared to put in the effort.

 

Kids nowadays see a very different world.  The old certainties are gone.  The big manufacturing and primary producers like coal mining, which used to 'hoover up' kids in their millions each September, are gone.  The employment market is much more complex and so is the education system.  The housing market iis loaded against the young. Our country is in danger of being pushed into the Third World by the rise of other powerful economies like China, India and so on.  And who are we to blame them for improving their lot?   We can no longer just rely on waving the flag, sending in a Gunboat and assuming we are 'Top Dog', because we aren't and in my view won't be again.  And for what it's worth.. when we truly were 'Top Dog' in the late 19th C, we also had some of the worst slums, poverty and deprivation on the planet..

 

We need think very hard about how we meet these challenges as a country if our future generations are going to have anything better than a second class existence.

.Rant over ;)

 

Col

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Catfan, I saw the speech by Bill Gates on Facebook yesterday and gave it a 'like'.  I think it is very true for many children and young people, although I do believe schools and parents need to be sensitive where rules 2 and 8 are concerned.  

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3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

allow the student to demonstrate intellectual capacity,

 

I agree,I see the intellectual capacity of students spread all over the pavements out side most pubs near Lincoln university most mornings with the pigeons picking out the bits

 

Rog

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I was working outside thinking about this thread this morning.  I got on here and found that Bill Gates had beaten me to it. ;)

 

I do not suggest being harsh to kids.  I had enough of that at a certain well known academy?? In Netherfield.  However, I think that the notions of the last few years of more or less giving a prize just for showing up have done a lot of harm.  The let down when reaching the real world will be much harder.  I actually enjoyed the work environment far more than I did the school situation.  Made some good friends and felt a sense of achievement.

 

I truly feel sorry for the current generation.  They may have more 'toys' than we did, but something profound has been lost in the process.

 

Edited to add.  This has been a great thread.:). There can always be the potential for harsh disagreement on these kinds of topics, but I think ya'll handled it well.  Likes for all.  

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Bill Gates' philosophy is nothing new to me nor, I suspect, to most of us. Heard all that from childhood. Basically, if you want it, earn it, life will never owe you a living and no matter how much studying you do, you will never be any better than anyone else...our house, our rules...don't blame others for your own shortcomings, etc. They both loved me to bits but had the sense to know that rules and discipline are the building bricks without which no one ever achieved anything. I am eternally grateful to them! :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, MargieH said:

Catfan, I saw the speech by Bill Gates on Facebook yesterday and gave it a 'like'.  I think it is very true for many children and young people, although I do believe schools and parents need to be sensitive where rules 2 and 8 are concerned.  

 

Yes. I think the wording of point No.2. gets close to confusing self-esteem, with smugness, or self satisfaction.  We should encourage all young people to have self-esteem and value themselves, whatever they have achieved.  That is what will give them the strength and resilience to get through the times when maybe they are finding life's challenges a bit trying.

 

Col

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Just had a visit from my lad & his lad, my grandson.

Called around to show me his GCSE exam results, half a dozen all A & Bs with an A star thrown in what ever one of those is !

He will be going to sixth form college to study A levels next year, feel very proud of him bit after reading what a lots been said on this thread I can only say kid's nowadays also need a lot of luck as well as a good education. !

 

Also cost me & Mrs C  £50. Hard work deserves rewarding !

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My daughter had good O Level results and we thought she would stay at school, came in announced she had a job apprentice florist.  Opened her first shop at 22.    My son said he was going to university to study engineering came in on his 18t birthday and had joined the army.

No wonder my hair went grey early - proud of what they have become.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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For any youngster reading this.

 

If you want a great education free and are prepared to work hard join HM forces as an officer.

 

My friends grandson went to what is now known as Arnold Hill Academy, not the best reputation but he studied hard both at school and outside. At the age of 15 off his own bat and with out telling anyone he went to the recruiting office and made enquiries as to what he would need exam wise to join as a naval officer.

 

Getting the required amount of O levels he was accepted for the next stage and sent to Welbeck College for two years as a boarder to study for his A levels (this is when we found out his intentions). As well as academic subjects they did plenty of sport, outdoor pursuits etc all paid for by the navy. Two years later with the required amount of A levels and wanting to be a RN weapons technical officer he went to Birmingham Uni his choice out of the three offered by the navy. Here he study engineering and came out with a first. Again this was all paid for and he was getting paid by the navy. Being paid allowed him and his three mates also recruits to have an extended touring holiday in America one summer including one week in a big red Mustang and winters were spent skiing in Austria or France or mountain climbing.

 

The final stage was six months at Dartmouth naval college doing officer training, he did well and my friend had the great pleasure of buying him his own naval sword for his passing out parade. My friend died soon afterwards aged 83 but having been a lower deck matelot in the 50s there was no prouder man in Arnold than him.

 

It is not easy, you will not be going out on the town very much and if you have to be picked up of the floor pissed you will get kicked out. Your academic progress will be checked every six months in front of the CO of the officer training corp. you will have to pass fitness exams at the same time.

 

But now 2 years later he sails the world is well paid with plenty of leave and due to his Uni qualifications has already been approached by the private sector including Rolls Royce in Derby.

 

No student debt and a healthy bank balance...............

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I thought the reference to car phone a bit outdated. A bit of checking indicates a consensus that 'Bill Gates' rules weren't down to him and come from nearly twenty years ago.

 

However, summarised as get real, sort yourself out and don't expect others to do it for you, seems like great advice many of us would have received and indeed given out in the past.

 

I have always believed apart from a loving home, the best thing you can do for your kids is ensure they get the best education possible. Support at this time is crucial. Then paragraph two applies....

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20 hours ago, DJ360 said:

In agreement with a lot said on here and I certainly agree that we shouldn't be slipping into a political fight.  Just so long as we each get to have our say. I've had mine except for this last point.

 

I think every generation faces its own challenges.  Our parents had it tougher than us what with depression and war.  We had it tough on the material front.  'Things' were hard to come by.  Nowadays 'things' are easy to get on the whole.  We all ( i.e.not just youngsters.) . can get phones, TV's , computers etc.  We would not have dreamed it possible 50 years ago.

 

We look back on our times of steam trains and full employment with fondness, and rightly so.. But there was also appalling poverty, slums, Polio, poorer health care, smog etc.

 

On the other hand, at least after WWII, which most of us just missed... we had a lot of certainty in our lives... and a lot of optimism. There was work if you wanted it.  No, we couldn't all go to uni, or have cars, or posh houses, but we knew there was a World out there which we could make a success of if we were prepared to put in the effort.

 

Kids nowadays see a very different world.  The old certainties are gone.  The big manufacturing and primary producers like coal mining, which used to 'hoover up' kids in their millions each September, are gone.  The employment market is much more complex and so is the education system.  The housing market iis loaded against the young. Our country is in danger of being pushed into the Third World by the rise of other powerful economies like China, India and so on.  And who are we to blame them for improving their lot?   We can no longer just rely on waving the flag, sending in a Gunboat and assuming we are 'Top Dog', because we aren't and in my view won't be again.  And for what it's worth.. when we truly were 'Top Dog' in the late 19th C, we also had some of the worst slums, poverty and deprivation on the planet..

 

We need think very hard about how we meet these challenges as a country if our future generations are going to have anything better than a second class existence.

.Rant over ;)

 

Col

I agree with every thing you say, the worst thing in the UK is upper class and lower class, to me every one should be equal. yes we had slums I was brought up in one of them but it doe's not make me any worse or better than anyone out there.  I also agree that the kids now days get things easy, but are we adults to blame for it, I suppose that we had to work hard for what we wanted so when (baby boom 60ish) we just gave our kids every thing. 

Going back to education when I taught hair and beauty some parents and girls/boys thought it was a easy option for a job. One student who was with me could hardly read so as I was teaching  at college I advised her to go to the English class, for more tuition, a week later her mum and dad walked into college to complain about me, there is no hope is there? I think its most of to-days parents that need education. Just one more comment, we allso taught customer service and most of the students were fine, but just a few had not got a clue. I don't think the UK needs to be top dog just get its self sorted out. 

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