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Here is a little mystery for anyone who wants a delve? I have hardly any information at all, and no one left alive who could answer questions for me. Through my life occasionally a person would come into family conversations, here is alI have to go on.

Christian Name is Christopher.

Born about 1919ish, possibly Mansfield or Newark areas.

Landlord of an historical pub in Newark 1950/60s (This is probably the best clue, if anyone has any records)

Died 1960s?

No surname, but hoping to recognise one if any one has any luck with this.

I told you I hadn't got much to go on, there really is no more, but you know what it's like, when something keeps niggling away, and I thought I would have one last try at finding out which pub he ran and any other info about him. Good Delving!

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In 1935 there was a Christopher Smith landlord of the Royal Oak , Castlegate . Your Christopher would have been too young to be a landlord then .

I see that landlord had a son..... maybe he was called Christopher too ?

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David, Thank you very much for the info. From what I know, his mother married in 1919 to a man who wasn't his father, and Christopher was bought up by a relation, this is why I don't have his surname, things were kept quiet in those days. I was hoping that I could make a connection when I heard of his surname. Smith is not a surname that comes anywhere in my ancestors names on the side that I know he is connected with.

I don't know the full story of Christopher or who his father was, so I imagine there is a chance that the Land Lord of the Royal Oak could have been him and come back into his life again and that would explain the two Christophers. I feel as though I have heard the Royal Oak mentioned, but I could be just clutching at straws. There were relations from that side of the family living in Arundal Drive?Newark in the early 1900s, so I know what bit I do know points to the right area. I will have a look for Christopher Smith on Ancestry, but I recall being told he was bought up by relations, if he took their name he wouldn't have been a Smith?

Edit. Sorry the Arundal Drive was where the family lived in Mansfield in the 1900s, I have got mixed up. need to check my family tree to get the Newark address.

The address of where some of the family possibly involved in Christophers upbringing were living in Newark in the 60s was Appleton Gate Newark, not that it gives any clues to his surname or whereabouts. Needle in Haystack comes to mind?

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The address of where some of the family possibly involved in Christophers upbringing were living in Newark in the 60s was Appleton Gate Newark, not that it gives any clues to his surname or whereabouts. Needle in Haystack comes to mind?

I don't know Newark at all, but I'm learning fast.

This building is on Appleton Gate - at the far eastern end. It looks like it used to be a pub; and it was. At least up until the late 1960s it was called the Bowling Green Hotel. Could he have been brought up by people living there ?

newark_zpsmozi31hw.jpg

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Getting back to the Christopher Smith born 1867 . On the 1939 Register he is at 17 Castle Gate described as a licensed victualler. The only other person it mentions is a Queenie McCarthy who is described as an "unpaid domestic" she s born 1895 and described as a widow .

Ring any bells ?

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None David, No Queenies that I know off. The address of my ancestors in 1966 was 36 Appleton Gate.( It is still there) In a letter I have just read, it states that they had just taken in boarders for three weeks, confirming a memory that I have of hearing that relatives also kept a bed and breakfast in Newark.

These were my grans Brother and wife who she was staying with in 1966, as my Gdad had just died. I thought perhaps they had brought him up, but can't find a Christoper Adams either.

CliffTon the pub rings no bells

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The Bowling Green at Newark seems to ring a bell with me. I'm sure I used to go there in the 60's when they had groups on. I think another one was The Station. In the summertime my wife and I would walk to Newark, stopping to have a picnic on the way, and seeing all the scenery and wildlife that you don't see when you're driving. We never had any trouble getting a lift back to Nottingham. When I look back at my life I'm amazed at some of the stuff I did. All good fun though. :)

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None David, No Queenies that I know off. The address of my ancestors in 1966 was 36 Appleton Gate.( It is still there) In a letter I have just read, it states that they had just taken in boarders for three weeks, confirming a memory that I have of hearing that relatives also kept a bed and breakfast in Newark.

These were my grans Brother and wife who she was staying with in 1966, as my Gdad had just died. I thought perhaps they had brought him up, but can't find a Christoper Adams either.

CliffTon the pub rings no bells

36 Appleton Gate was Sheldrakes the Chemists. It then became Howes wine shop. It faced the old police station. The Bowling Green was at the Northgate Station end of Appleton Gate and is now a decorator's supplier.

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Probably no help but in the 1939 Registry , living at 36 Appleton Gate was an Emilius Connolly born 1876 , presume his wife Elizabeth and a companion called Grace Robinson .

At 36A was a Harriet Howden and a George and Miriam Bamford .......any use ?

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There's still something called the Newcastle Arms on Appleton Gate. Is it a pub, or summat else ?

https://goo.gl/maps/YjnG8otgYSp

I think that's an outdated Google. I believe it was sold for redevelopment recently. Drove past there on the way to Northgate Station this afternoon. I parked outside what used to be the Bowling Green opposite the station. This is now a hardware and paint supplier. Prior to that it was a gym/fitness club.

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I googled the address that my G-ma sent three letters from in the 60s and this detached house came up. The people that lived at that address were her Brother and wife. My only knowledge of this house is from the letters and talk of a Bed and Breakfast at Newark. I have never been to it, as they were my mams Aunt/uncle, and as far as I know there was no contact?

I think David might be on the right track with his possible two Christophers, one of them might be mine or the father of mine. People have a tendency to pass names down.. I will look them up on Ancestry. Many thanks for your help everyone,I might find the name of the pub that he ran the way things are going. Just off to my dance class for a couple of hours so I will be back on NS later.

585ac47b-6c3f-47e3-b7fe-66d5b056c04b.png

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Carni it may not be that Christopher Smith . In 1911 he was at the Saracens Head but his son then was called George born 1906 .

So unless that one died and he had another son later its probably not him .

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I only know one pub in Newark as we used to call there with mum and dad on the way to Skeg It was called the White Swan. Maybe if you went on a brewery site you might get some answers, (just a thought)

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Thank you David. I have come to a dead end regarding his surname. He could have been brought up by my Gt G-Parents or one of my Gt Aunts/Uncles and spouses. No idea what surname he took either. I also know he never married

I had the notion that I might be able to find his surname, by a round about way in looking for a Landlord with the Christian name of Christopher, but it is proving unlikely that route will find him. I have always known about Chris (as he was called by older family) but my interest really was to try to find which pub mam spoke about in Newark that he ran. I remember hearing that he died fairly young, which would have made him in his forties. possibly due to alcohol. This is one of those stories that we always knew of but never bothered about until it was too late. Now we may never know.

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I believe I have found his birth. Christopher J Adams. 1917. Born Mansfield. Infered County Derbyshire. Pretty sure this is him, by his surname. Would the J be any help? will this help with the Newark Pub quiry?

I haven't been able to find his death yet?

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On the 1939 Register at 496 Chesterfield Rd Mansfield .

Christopher J Adams born Dec 1916

Annie Adams born 1869

Ernest A Adams born 1901

Wilfred born 1903

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I'm pretty sure these are my family, Christopher was probably not registered until the new year. I just typed in Adams not expecting anything to come of it and Christopher J came up. I have tried before and had no luck.

In the letters I have with the Newark address on from my Gran to her daughter, she mentions uncle Ern, I imagine that is the Ernest that you have turned up.Annie and Wilfred are also in my tree.

I think sometime after 1939 Ernest married, and his then wife Lena (Ern and Lena) as Gran referred to them in the letters) must have moved from Mansfield to 36 Appleton Gate Newark, taking Christopher with them? Perhaps to open the B and B mentioned in the letters.

I knew a bit about these ancesters, but we are uncovering more, thank you David for locating their Mansfield address. I have in my tree (Stuffnywood(Mansfield Woodhouse) as well. So Christopher J Adams is the person I am looking for, who mam said ran a pub in Newark?

Edited. Back to the question. Which Pub?

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There is a marriage in Mansfield in 1940 for a Christopher J Adams to a Doris Buttery .

Can't find any mentions of a Christopher Adams running a pub but the news archives only go up to 1950 ish .

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The plot thickens. I just remember mam saying he ran a pub in Newark and that it was quite an old one that tourists visited? I don't think I was very interested at the time, I didn't know him, as far as I know I never met him? It is just curiosity that has often made me wonder which pub it was.

I don't know if mam ever went to visit him in Newark. The story is, that mam and her five sisters had an uncle called Chris and many years later it turned out that Uncle Chris (Christopher Adams) was actually their half brother, bought up by other relations? He was born before 1920 and mam and her sisters were born from 1922 on wards after Gma and Gdad married in 1919. Granddad was not his father. Where the pub story comes from I don't know. I can't see why mam would say he ran a pub, without either visiting it or being told about it by other relations.

This seems like a wild goose chase and it is a shame if I can't find out the truth. I don't recall mam saying he was married, though we didn't speak of him often, he could have married quietly. there is still a chance he did run a pub after the 1950 archives. Will I ever know.

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Carni you probably know all this but 1911 Census living at 31 Arundel Drive Mansfield were Joseph and Annie Adams .

Children :

Lily born 1895

Kate 1897

Annie 1900

Ernest Arthur 1902

Wilfred Henry 1903

Oliver Hemstock 1905

Dora 1909

In my previous list on 1939 Register it says Christopher

born 1916 is living with Ernest and Wilfred plus Annie born 1869 . Their mother would be too old to be mum of Christopher .

On his birth record it says his mums maiden name was Adams which suggests Christopher was an illegitimate

son of one of Ernest and Wilfred's sisters probably Kate ?

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My God !!!!! There's some black sheep in that family. LOL

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Yes David, Christopher was the son of Kate, my Grandma, who was abandoned by her fiancee. She later married my granddad in 1919 and went on to have six daughters. I have the list of names you found, in my tree.

Ernest is the one I believe grandma was staying with in Newark. I have most of my ancestors names going back to mid 1800s on that side of the family. Christopher is not new to us, it is the Land Lord bit that is baffling? Because you have records to delve into and can't turn anything up; I am beginning to wonder if mams information was completely correct? Makes me doubt things a bit. There must be a way of finding out if he could have had a pub up to the 1960s?

Hey Chulla, We are a very colorful family. Never a dull moment. Make the righteous seem good don't we. Watch this space! :biggrin:

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