Mystery Landlord

[carni 10,094]

Thank you Ann, It looks as though that is the only way to find out for sure. If he doesn't show up in the Trade Directories, I will have to assume someone in the family got it wrong. As I have said all of the generation who were closely linked to Christopher have now passed away. So information has gone with them. I think I have been clutching at straws with my bit of probably unreliable information?

Thank you to all who have had a delve for me.

[carni 10,094]

Back again. Just when I thought it was all over, I had a brainwave. I went onto Ancestry, British Phone Books 1880-1984 typed in his name and this came up. As soon as I saw Welby Arms, I knew it must be a pub! Could it be that I have been looking at Newark and it was Grantham. I googled the Pub and I think it may be another closed down pub! Could this be Christopher, the date 1959 is looking good. Where do I go from here?

[Chulla 4,946]

#23, #25. Ann, I was pulling carni's leg, and she knew it.

[carni 10,094]

ref #23 No offence taken. Chulla knows my sense of humour and knows my bounderies. Because I never took him serious, it could have looked as if I was offended. I assure you that I wasn't. Just a bit of ribbing..

Thank you Ann, for your help and thoughtfulness, much appreciated. When David found the J in Christophers name, it seemed to open things up for me, I have never had any luck on Ancestry when I have looked for him before. Not knowing what surname he was registered under, I had looked under Adams and got nowhere, until I had the J?

I hope that is the Christopher in the image on #27. Could be that mixed information over the years means that all though Grans letters came from the address in Newark, 36, Appleton Gate in the1960s, when she was staying with her brother in the week after g-dad died. The pub that Christopher ran could be the Welby Arms in Denton. It looks promising. I feel optimistic about this, This seems closer than I have got to finding his pub, since I started delving on Ancestry in 2008. I really appreciate all the help I have had on NS.

[FLY2 10,108]

The Welby Arms at Denton. I went there several times in the late 80's and early 90's when I lived at Saxondale.

The food was very good.

[DJBrenton 738]

Possibly the next check would be for death records to establish the year of birth for this particular CJ Adams. Finding that could well establish him as the only possible candidate. Denton is the sort of village where you might even find a resident who remembers that far back too. It may be that the pub is only closed for a refurb as the new landlord was pictured as recently as May and it has been removed from sale at some point

http://www.granthamjournal.co.uk/news/local/video-denton-street-market-success-helps-local-causes-1-7369105

[carni 10,094]

Great Minds lol. That was going to be my next post. I have got to go to town now (City, I forgot we are a city now) but the kettle will be on as soon as I get back, Tea and Cake and a bit more delving. Getting quite excited now I have all this new info to work on.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Pub landlords do tend to move around . He could well have gone to Newark later on .

Getting back to that marriage for a Christopher J Adams in 1940 in Mansfield in 1940 to a Doris Buttery .

There was a birth for a David M Adams in Mansfield in 1946 ( mothers maiden name Buttery). Did you know of a distant "cousin" called David ?

Of course could be some other unrelated Christopher J Adams ...its a fairly common name .

[Chulla 4,946]

Denton eh, Just think, carni, you might be related to Detective Inspector Frost.

[Guest]

Or Jack!!

[FLY2 10,108]

Carni, are you sure it's not the forthcoming prospect of tea and cake that's exciting you?

[annswabey 599]

The birth date for Doris Adams, nee Buttery was 28/8/18, according to 1939 Register. There's a death for a Doris Adams with that birth date, in Mansfield Registration district in 2005. As you can't find a death for Christopher J, perhaps he died after 2007 (latest year the online death index goes up to). There are Wills for 3 men, years of death 2011, 12 and 14, 2 with the name Christopher James, and one Christopher John. No personal details given in the Wills index though

[annswabey 599]

There's a tree on Ancestry which has Doris Buttery - details of her spouse and any children are marked Private. Might be worth contacting the person

[carni 10,094]

I am baffled again. I thought that Christopher never married? but nothing is positive any more, and I recall mam saying at one time that he had died. My mam died in 1997 so she would have told me of his death long before those dates.

My information is very loose and there does seem to be a few C J Adams around at the time. Doris Buttery means nothing to me, but that doesn't mean much, as I really knew nothing of his life. Mam and her sisters were not part of Christophers everyday life, I imagine that they only knew what ever Grandma told them?

I felt hopeful that the Welby Arms run by a Christopher J Adams in 1959 was the one, but I am not sure anymore. My bit of information doesn't seem to be strong enough to be positive about anything. I could contact the tree with Doris Buttery in, but I am a bit unsure as to whether I want to go that far into possible family links just yet.

[annswabey 599]

That marriage, found by David, might well be for the wrong Christopher J Adams - it's a common name! Perhaps you could get his birth cert, to establish his exact date of birth, which would help with finding his death

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Ann , according to the 1939 Register , when he was living with his "uncles" and grandma ( at 496 Chesterfield Rd ), Christopher J's exact birthdate was 9th Dec 1916 .

[carni 10,094]

I did find this in the deaths on Ancestry. I suppose there is a chance that another Christopher J Adams could be born on the same date? It is a long way from the Midlands but who knows? Joseph was Grandma's fathers name, and names do go down in generations, but it could be another coincidence?

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Carni , I can't see any other Christopher J Adams born in 1916 on FMP .

No others on the 1939 Registry born that year either . So unless this one jetted in from abroad ......looks likely

[carni 10,094]

I was hoping you would say that. lol. With the information we have got together between us all, I may be able to find out for sure with a bit more delving, if he was the Land Lord of the pub in Grantham.

Well, we have gone from nothing to finding his full name, where he has lived, Possibly the pub he ran, not in Newark as I thought, unless as you say, he could have moved back to one in Newark at a later date. A marriage maybe? His death possibly in Poole Dorset.?

When I put it all together with the bits that keep popping into my mind; it does seem to be all adding up. We have come a long way from just a Christian name and the possibility that he ran a pub in Newark. I will one day go to the pub in Grantham if it does open again, just a whim. I will carry on from what we have got and see if I can find out if he did go back to a pub in Newark. I am thrilled with what we have turned up about Christopher. I have wondered about him for years. Thank you Ann and David for your expert help.xx

[annswabey 599]

Yes, I saw that on 1939 Register, but there's always doubt that date was accurate. However, I think the death in 1984 must be right. There was an Administration, rather than a Will, for him so all it would give would be who the Admon was granted to. His address was 17 Dewlands Park, Verwood, Wimbourne, Dorset, he died 15 April 1984 and he left £3346

[carni 10,094]

Just a little update.

I have found that CJA, was still at the Welby Arms Denton in Sept 1962. I have got so many different addresses for CJA from the phone books in the years following that, meaning I imagine that there must be others of the same name, because it appears he was moving locations sometimes monthly. For example..*.75 Woodthorpe Drive, Woodthorpe. April 1979. Optcns,130 Front St Arnold April 1979. * 31 Kings CT Southwell Mansfield/Newark May 1979.? These are just a few?

I have a list of examples like these three, if it is the same person, he appears to be on the move rather a lot? I have just got to find out which ones of the entries in the phone book are my CJA, and when he actually moved down South. I have found no entries for Public Houses after 1962 either for the Welby Arms or back in Newark? Very complicated. I will keep delving.

It looks as if he is in two places the same month? *

[mardybum 1]

hello been reading your posts found a Christopher J Adams running the Welby Arms in Knipton 1961/62 phone directory its about 22 miles from newark could of ran more than one good luck only just read your last post

[MargieH 7,599]

Carni #46.   Just found this topic and was drawn to the address on Woodthorpe Drive (number 75). That's just up from my parents' house where they were living in 1979.  I believe the house was/still is called 'Camelot'.   I always thought it looked an attractive place - double fronted but only one room deep - but I didn't know the occupant, so sorry can't be of any help.  I've just enjoyed counting up the houses from my old house........ I'll have to check on streetview to make sure I haven't counted wrong!