Recommended Posts

philmayfield    517

Do any of the drivers on here use them? I've always been a bit wary about them dropping the wash leathers on the ground and scratching the paintwork. However we were just pulling out of Downtown at Grantham last week in my wife's 4x4 when I spied a new one set up in the carpark. I stopped to look at the pricing and was immediately surrounded by what seemed to be a bunch of Bulgarian bandits. One tapped on the window and said "large car, £9". He'd made me an offer I daren't refuse. The car was pretty filthy, the weather was hot, I didn't feel like washing it myself so I said "go ahead". Well a swarm of guys came from all directions and pressure washed, shampooed, and leathered it dry. They cleaned the windows on the inside, treated the tyres, cleaned the wipers. All extremely thoroughly until it was gleaming. Probably only took five minutes. Most impressed so I gave them two quid tip! Drove away one happy chappy. The thing is would I trust them with my own car? Well I cleaned that myself today but it took me longer than five minutes.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
catfan    8,732

All on benefits, no tax, PAYE or NI either no doubt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

I'm absolutely certain you're right. That's why I've always refused to use them. I was just curious to see what it was like. I'm a Chartered Accountant and was a General Commissioner of Taxes for over 25 years. Believe me I can spot a rogue trader at forty paces. These set ups are decidedly dodgy but because of wide redundancies at the Revenue and Customs over the last few years there are just not the resources to follow them up. The situation will not get better until someone in government gets off their backside and sorts it out. Sorry, am I being political? 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LizzieM    4,822

We use those car washers all the time, can't remember the last time either of our cars was cleaned in our driveway.  It's putting food on the table for those blokes and no work for us, a bargain too.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

Yes, but in doing so you are contributing to and encouraging the black economy which means that honest taxpayers have to pay more tax. This is a moral/ethical issue. How many of us can put our hands on our hearts and say that we have not paid cash for a job to obtain a reduced price? It's for the Government to have an effective Customs and Revenue to investigate the rogue traders. Billions could be saved.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
catfan    8,732

It makes my blood boil reading things like his.  Three years ago after my heart attack & living on £83 pw SSP ,no sick pay scheme from employer either I got a demand from HMRC for £600 underpaid tax. Later found out they had issued wrong tax code to my employer, their mistake not mine !

HMRC were quite ruthless in their demand for payment until I paid them off, bastards ! HMRC should be chasing companies who use expensive accountants to legally get around paying their fare share of taxes & scum immigrants like these.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

HMRC are understaffed and more likely to make mistakes. I don't condone this; it's just a fact. If you do feel aggrieved or think that you have been treated unfairly there is an appeal procedure available to all taxpayers where you will obtain a fair hearing at a tribunal. Believe me I sat on such tribunals for many years and many of our decisions, on hearing all the facts, were made in favour of the taxpayer and not the Revenue. Tax law can be complex but it's up to the accountants to ensure that we pay no more tax than we are required. I don't agree with dodgy tax evasion schemes which are usually caught out in the end but in all professions, law, accountancy, medicine etc. there are a few unscrupulous practioners who act unethically.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
benjamin1945    8,165

There are more crooks living in Englands leafy lanes................than working in car washes..............

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

They are all around us. Some very rich, some not so rich, some ordinary tradesmen. But we will all pay a lesser price to avoid VAT or whatever, so the black economy is hear to stay until we all adopt a high moral philosophy which, of course, will be never. I bet even those on this forum who profess a religion have not given in to the temptation of a cash payment to a tradesman for a discount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
loppylugs    4,821

Whether the tradesman pays his taxes or not is none of my business.  Neither is it my job to try to police him.  The question for those of us who profess a religious faith is 'do I pay my taxes?'  Am I honest and above board in my dealings with others?

 

I pay cash in a variety of stores.  I don't know what they do with it or if they pay their fair share.  I know of gas stations that give discount for cash rather than a credit card.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

I see where you're coming from but there are times when we know there's a fiddle going on when we are offered the option of a cheaper deal for cash in hand. I have no religion so I have no worries about that side of things but deep down we know when we are colluding with something unethical for personal gain. I don't think that we can dismiss possible tax evasion as being "none of my business". This just confirms my view on the hypocrisy of religion. Sorry, I'm not attempting to be personally offensive, just expressing a view. None of us like paying taxes but we have to accept that in a civilised society the infrastructure money has got to be found and there are those out there who are not paying their share to the detriment of the rest of us.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
benjamin1945    8,165

Imagine you're skint,down on your luck,paying some slum landlord exorbitant rent,far from home with few friends......up at the crack of dawn,worked all day cleaning cars in the freezing rain.........are you going to tell the Tax man you did 50 cars at £4 a throw.......or just 10 ?

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

Again I see where you're coming from. I presume you would condone shoplifting by the needy. Does the law apply to everyone or just a selected few? All self employed people fiddle their tax from the highest to the lowest. It's those poor buggers under PAYE that have no option but to pay up. 

Many years ago, when I worked in the accountancy profession, I would come across numerous wealthy business owners who were living "out of the till". When the completed accounts were reviewed with the relevant partner I would express my concerns that there was a fiddle going on. What could he do? Report them to the Revenue and loose a client and a valuable annual fee? We are surrounded by fraud. It seems to grease the gears of life. I'm just trying to debate the ethics of this. I would add that I have always been an employee, whether working for an accountancy practice or for a company when I was in industry. In a company with other shareholders, even though I was managing director, there was very little leeway to "fabricate" my expenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LizzieM    4,822

What must be remembered here is that the Taxman is well aware of what is going on in the 'black economy', activities such as Car Wash places are monitored by HMRC from a distance. As are our very own Goose Fair rides.  We don't write a cheque or pay by card on the Big Wheel or Dodgers do we?   

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
benjamin1945    8,165

Agree Phil.......ref the poor buggers under PAYE that have no option but to to pay up............and i too have seen wealthy business owners who live out of the till,both sets of illegal activity are wrong...........i also agree that it will never be stamped out........and yes i saw/see many shoplifters who did it out of need........very sad........i almost condone it........kept me in a living for many years catching the poor sods......only enjoyed catching the 'Greedy' never the needy.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

If the taxman is aware we don't see many prosecutions because it's virtually impossible to obtain evidence. As I have said before, the Revenue, due to staff cutbacks, just does not have the resources to follow the leads. Have you tried 'phoning the Revenue? Are there the tax offices in the towns anymore where you could just pop in and settle a query? How can the so called "travellers" afford their luxury caravans, 4x4's and new Mercedes. These sorts of people have just opted out of the system and the police and the Revenue, out of fear for their own skins, won't get involved. Society is riddled with fraud and there's nothing we can do about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MargieH    3,345
43 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

... All self employed people fiddle their tax from the highest to the lowest. 

 

Steady on, Phil!   That's a sweeping statement.  Paul was self employed and NEVER fiddled his tax.   When people used to offer him cash, he would always tell them that it didn't matter how they paid, the price was the same and everything was declared.   We never employed an accountant as he was capable of doing the accounts himself!  

Even now, when he fills in his tax return, it's all done in an honest way.  I suppose if we'd employed an accountant then THEY may have used some 'tricks' but we certainly don't!

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

I'm only going by what I've witnessed over many years of experience. There will  be exceptions but I have never seen any personally. You are to be admired for your ethical lifestyle. It's comforting to know I'm not alone in trying to be honest. And me not even a Christian!

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MargieH    3,345
3 hours ago, loppylugs said:

Whether the tradesman pays his taxes or not is none of my business.  Neither is it my job to try to police him.  The question for those of us who profess a religious faith is 'do I pay my taxes?'  Am I honest and above board in my dealings with others?

 

 

Well said Loppy, couldn't have said it better myself!

 

and Phil... it's good to hear that you're an honest man, too!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517
18 minutes ago, MargieH said:

Well said Loppy, couldn't have said it better myself!

 

Your wrong Margie and Loppy. Reflect on "Am I my Brother's keeper?" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MargieH    3,345

Phil, I've always understood the meaning of that question like this...
No-one is the absolute “keeper” of other people in that we are not responsible for other people's behaviour but, in another way, every person IS his brother’s keeper because we should care about the welfare of others and try to bring about the best for them.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
philmayfield    517

Ah well, Christians will always interpret the Bible to mean what they want it to mean to suit the occasion. They also have the supreme "get out clause" in that "God has given man free will".

I've had enough of this ethical discussion - I only wanted to know if anyone had used one of those dodgy Eastern European car washes. I will certainly take my wife's through again but not mine. Sod the ethics! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
carni    7,216

We always use the car washes, they are mainly Eastern European and we always pay £3.00. They do a speedy and good job. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
carni    7,216

Ours is only a little car Phil, I'm sure you got your moneys worth. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now