How's your day?

[Compo 10,328]

So there I was thinking I was being clever....Booked a hotel in Nairn for a night so that we could go and have a trip on the first steam train of the year at the Speyside railway and lo! It is the same day that her indoors is in a photographic competiton in Inverness - complete with social function afterwards. Now instead of being the goody, I am the big baddy....I was told the date some weeks ago and forgot! Oooer 

[PeverilPeril 3,279]

Usual 40 min on rowing machine then porridge. Cut top half of tree down to let some light into my neighbours (second tree now). Nobody about to help pull ropes to bring branches down away from another neighbours car.so had to use a bit of improvision. Kit = heavy wooden ladder, long rope, concrete fence post. Method = tie rope to branch as high as possible. Lay ladder on lawn facing tree and loop rope around top rung of ladder that is furthest away from tree. Pull rope to bend branch and tie  to concrete fence post on opposite side of lawn. Lift the ladder and wedge into lawn so that it is at an angle to put more pulling pressure on to branch. The ladder is then my assistant. I go up the tree and cut the branch (about 6" dia) and the ladder falls down, taking the branch with it. Viola! Worked eight times so no fluke.

Lunch then a 30 min power nap. Cut up branches and loaded onto trailer ready for tip run tomorrow.

Pour pint of cidre. Log on to Nottstalgia   oh! cidre gone!....plenty more where that came from.

[Compo 10,328]

5 hours ago, IAN123. said:

Damn and blast Compo..could you rearrange?

 

Awaiting her return and the argument, Ian.

 

[Brew 5,404]

PP, find a friendly trucker and ask him to teach you how to tie a dolly knot, a.k.a truckers hitch, a.k.a rope hitch... simples and no need for a ladder to add tension.

[PeverilPeril 3,279]

I can tie a truckers knot Brew, but I needed to pull the branches at least ten feet away from a fence. The falling ladder did just that.

 

Right - off to the tip.

[DJ360 6,721]

22 hours ago, loppylugs said:

 

At my stage of life, Col I probably couldn't hear the difference anyway.  

 

I remember a line from an old Flanders and Swan album called 'a song of reproduction.'  It went something like.   "It's like having a philharmonic orchestra playing in your living room.       But who wants a philharmonic orchestra playing in their living room?" 

 

Hi Loppy.  That song has been posted here more than once recently.  even 'dyed in the wool audiophiles' like me, find it amusing and of course there's a grain of truth in it. But that said, we all hove our own set of ears, with whatever limitations.  So, we can usually hear differences.  It doesn't matter what others hear, just what we hear.  Obviously if you genuinely can't hear the differecnce between two pieces of kit.. buy the cheapest.

 

However, the Flanders and Swan 'Song of Reproduction',  comes really from an era when 'yer average' domestic music playing set up (typically a 'Dansette' or similar) lagged far behind the quality of recordings available.  

I've spent a lot of time recently listening to LPs from 1954-1960 by people like Sarah Vaughan, Louis and Ella, Dinah Washington etc.  The sound I'm getting from these old recordings is breathtakingly good but it wouldn't be if it hadn't been captured in the first place.

 

Most people back then struggled to afford the (then) very high cost of records and only a wealthy or very determined few could afford a high quality set up featuring say, a Garrard 301/401 'transcription' player, along with a suitable tonearm (typically SME) plus a quality cartridge (Maybe a Decca) all feeding into QUAD, Rogers, Pye, LEAK, Radford or maybe Beam Echo valve based amplifiers and on to KEF, Goodmans, Tannoy, Rogers or similar speakers. ( Or QUAD ESL 57 electrostatics.. if you were really wealthy)

 

These days, decent quality sound is much more affordable.  Most people will admit to liking music, yet many people still go for the cheapest option or still insist on sticking speakers behind couches, or up in the corner near the ceiling  (Worst possible place). And you really cannot get decent sound out of tiny speakers.  That defies the laws of Physics.

Of course you don't have to go as far as I've done.  (And believe me.. I've got friends who make me look positively disinterested..! ) But I'm convinced that most people have no idea how good a sound they could be getting if only they stopped automatically purchasing the disposable tat served up by the Curry's of this world and actually visited a decent specialist audio dealer.   All good dealers will supply everything from 'budget' kit up to stratospherically priced stuff.

The other day when I took my £3k+ amplifier in for repair, another chap came in looking for a replacement cartridge for his very old mid priced record deck.  He was offered a direct replacement for  about 25 quid with the offer of free fitting.  He was also advised , but without any pressure, that his deck would sound even better with a slightly more expensive cartridge.  Good dealers really do treat all customers with equal respect, whatever their knowledge or budget.

 

Col

[loppylugs 8,427]

So true Col.  Nottingham lost a goodun when Peter Anson died.  

 

I got got started around the time when arguments were going on about which was best.  Transistors or valves.  Choice in my price range was a transistorized Leak stereo 30. Or a valve Rogers Cadet three.  Both in the forty pound range.  I chose the Rogers and was happy with it for a long time.  Even shipped it over to Canada when I moved.  I won't go on at length about Peter Anson.  He was the type of dealer you described.  Quite low key but he would suggest options / upgrades that were within a reasonable price range and far superior to anything you could buy at the Co-op.

 

Certainly agree with you on the quality of LPs even back in the 60s.  Even quite modest equipment brought out details that were amazing to hear.

 

LPs seem to be making quite a comeback here.  I even saw a little record player and a display of LPs in a sort of general purpose store the other day.  Definitely not hi-fi.  Maybe an acknowledgement that maybe us old timers aren't quite as out of touch as some might believe.  

[Compo 10,328]

I was surprised to see a selection of record players for sale in HMV in Glasgow recently.  I think they were all capable of transferring LPs to other media though.

[loppylugs 8,427]

Well, that's a useful feature as well.  Transfer I mean.  The one I saw was similar to a Dansette.  I think it said USB capable on it too.  I'm sure the audio from its little speaker wouldn't be too great though.

[DJ360 6,721]

Yep.  Only the other day my advice to a long time hi fi enthusiast who was considering his first foray into vinyl for 35 years, was to avoid the many 'me too' budget offerings which are appearing in the non specialist stores on the back of the 'vinyl revival'.  They will generally have poor/noisy motors, poor isolation from their own motor noise and airborne noise from speakers along with poor speed stability, cheap wobbly tonearms etc. The cumulative effect being that they won't get the information off the record in the first place, or if they do they won't pass it on intact to the amplifier.  The 'transfer' can be easily handled with a single 'analogue to digital converter' chip and a USB port which cost pennies, but it will not be done too well. Probably better to use some sort of computer based method.  I use a proper CD recorder which will take any analogue signal and record it to a hard drive, where it can be edited etc., before burning to CD.

 

The one thing about replay of records is that it is not and never has been especially cheap to do properly.  It is after all an electro mechanical process with countless opportunities to spoil things. 

Since the introduction of CD in 1983, when many people cheerfully binned all of their vinyl, a small core of manufacturers have continued making record players.  Notable British companies include LINN, Roksan, Pink Triangle/Funk Firm and other international players such as Project, Audio Technica, Technics and Thorens still have good stuff on offer.  If you are serious about it, you really can't get much for under about £150, but that is only equivalent to the cost of about 10 LPs, so hardly OTT.  The link below includes a full system of record player, amplifier and speakers for £600, which is probably similar in real terms to the cost of a Dansette back in the day, but which will sound far better.  If I had to, I could live with a Rega or Project 'entry level' player.

 

https://www.dougbradyhifi.com/vinyl-turntables

 

And Loppy.. I think I'd have gone for the Rogers Cadet too.  I had a Cadet II for a while only a few years back.  Lovely little thing but a bit underpowered for my speakers.  There's a chap here called Tim De Paravicini who runs a company called EAR (Esoteric Audio Research).  He's an acknowledged genius and builds lots of very classy valve amplifiers.  But, he claims he can make the same sound using either valves or transistors.

 

Col

 

[loppylugs 8,427]

I think at that time (1966) valves were well ahead of transistor technology.  Hi Fi News magazine was claiming that the transistor amps were introducing a lot of intermodulation distortion even at low power levels.  That influenced my decision a lot.

 

I'm still ok for vinyl.  My old Thorens TD 150 with a shure v15 III cartridge is still sitting here and I never dumped all my records.  Just could not bring myself to do it.  I bought a lot of CDs over the years too and still find them handy to play in the car.  I could never quite put my finger on it but although there were no pops or crackles they always seemed to have a rather a brittle sound to me.  Not so noticeable in the car as the system is hardly hi-fi in that environment.   LPs seem to have a warmer, smoother more realistic sound to me and most of the surfaces are in top notch condition.  Some I bought in 1967 still sound as good today.

 

The poor old Rogers finally died and I bought a Kenwood amp which still works.  Currently using a Technics receiver which works well although I'm sure there are many better units around if I wanted to part with a bit more cash.  Still using my old Wharfdales too.

[letsavagoo 961]

I read the last few posts re HiFi with great interest. The best sounding set up I've ever listened to was a very exotic ie very and I mean very expensive. The deck was gravity spun cast iron needing two to move it. The speakers I can't recall the make but think they were Swedish, very tall but quite narrow and 2 large mono lock 300 B valve amps with I believe silver wire windings. I don't know what it all cost but it would buy a small house I suspect. Unbelievably good but I couldn't afford the speaker wires in truth. I recall the owner had one of the original tape machines that had been used by the Beatles.  Up until recently I have been using a hand made mullard 3-3 valve amp with a valve croft pre amp and cheaper Thorens deck with KEF speakers. Just sold the amp and speakers and going back to my John Linsley Hood transistor class A that I made some years ago. I have all the wood cut but not yet assembled for a pair of folded horn speakers. Warmer weather job and need help as my fingers don't work too well. My wife hates HiFi and is perfectly happy with a simple DAB radio. I have not counted but have a lot of vinyl. All my 70's LP's plus plenty of jazz, similar to dj360 I suspect. I've got hundreds of late 50's -60's 45's salted away too which I may sell one day as they never get played now.

There is the Pie-Fi event at Melton Mowbray every year. I keep meaning to go but haven't managed it yet for one reason or another. 

[jonab 1,644]

I had a sort of interest in HiFi many years ago (probably at the height of the valve vs transistor battle) but I did find that many of the more enthusiastic HiFi-ers became far more interested in the merits of the equipment and with tracking the sources of audio artefacts (both in the equipment and in the sound source) than they were in actually listening to what was being performed.

[philmayfield 6,115]

I think hi fi can be a bit of a con. People might convince themselves (or allow themselves to be convinced) that  more expensive is better. I think it all depends on the aural acuity of the listener and that, like all the other senses, varies amongst individuals. Is a Jaguar better than a Ford? Probably not, just more expensive and more prestigious?

[jonab 1,644]

BTW, I too built the Wireless World Linsley Hood amplifier and also a rather excellent pickup arm also in WW but I cannot remember the designer of that. Also, I bought the concrete pipes for the WW speaker system but never got round to building them due to the then lack of space

[philmayfield 6,115]

It was fun though at the time wasn’t it? I once built a Caterham 7 but I doubt I would do it now.  Probably couldn’t get in it!

[DJ360 6,721]

Some interesting replies above.

 

Letsavagoo.  The 'Pie Fi' show at Scalford, just up the road from Melton, is organised by the Hi Fi Wigwam enthusiasts site.  It differs in that it is not a 'Trade' show.. so much as a gathering of enthusiasts who each bring their systems along and set up in hotel rooms for others to hear.  I've been a couple of times.  I believe it moved to a different venue this year.  The Sound and Vision show in Bristol is very much a Trade Show and I went there a couple of weeks ago.

Jonab.  I think there are several species of hi fi enthusiast.  Some are more into the electronics etc., and will fiddle endlessly., some are constantly tweaking stuff such as cables, kit suports etc. There are the 'box swappers', who seem to change kit endlessly in a quest for the unobtainable.. or maybe they are just the audio equivalent of train spotters and like to say they've seen/heard and owned everything.  It's not really too different to other hobbies.  People pursue their interest in different ways.  Some want to try everything, some will take one item.. a car of motorbike for e.g., and spend decades making it perfect, etc.

 

My own approach is slow and steady.  I've owned three different amp set ups, two CD players and two sets of speakers in 30+ years.  I've recently set up my third quality turntable. ( Michell Orbe) in as many years.I try not to get obsessive about the sound. I prefer to buy kit that I like and that works 'synergistically' with my other kit and then just listen to music.  That said, a friend and I were listening to the amp I have on loan while mine is being fixed.  I was wondering if some very slight 'edginess' on vocals was just an artefact of the recording, but we realised it was only really there at louder volumes.  So.. it might just be that the amp is pushing the speakers a bit hard, but more likely, I think it is due to the noise from the speakers 'exciting' the turntable and its support shelf, causing some 'breakthrough'.  I'll be experimenting a bit with different shelf materials/supports.. but it will be aimed at a specific issue.. not just fiddling for the sake of it.

 

Mostly. it's about having fun. 

 

Col

[DJ360 6,721]

1 hour ago, philmayfield said:

I think hi fi can be a bit of a con. People might convince themselves (or allow themselves to be convinced) that  more expensive is better. I think it all depends on the aural acuity of the listener and that, like all the other senses, varies amongst individuals. Is a Jaguar better than a Ford? Probably not, just more expensive and more prestigious?

 

I think there's some truth in that.  I'm not impressed by the wild claims of some manufacturers.  Linn products have always operated with an unshakeable marketing strategy based on the simple idea that their stuff is the best and nothing else is worth considering. Many of their dealers sell only Linn.  The myth of Bang and Olufsen operates in a similar way, with a slightly different target market. Both in effect appeal to snobbery more than anything else.  It's cobblers.. but there are those who buy into it because they want the 'cachet' as much as the kit.  It's similar with NAIM Audio.. most of whose kit I find unlistenable.

 

I've a friend who will cheerfully spend thousands on a metre long glorified kettle lead.  It's his money and he can afford it, so apart from the occasional gentle ribbing, I let him get on with it.   All wires exhibit impedance, capacitance and inductance.  Therefore all wires will have a filtering effect on audio signals, but with the lengths typically involved I seriously doubt that it is audible. I use sensibly priced studio grade speaker wires and interconnects.

 

Oddly, while the general thrust from amplifier makers is that you need massive transformers and great banks of huge capacitors to provide a 'stiff' power supply which will not cause compression of transients etc..Dr richard Bews who designs and hand builds the LFD amps I use doesn't follow that route.  There are no capacitors physically bigger than about 30mm long and 15mm diameter anywhere in my amp.  Yet it delivers clean, uncompressed and hefty sound via my speakers.. which are not an easy load at 83dB/1w.  He seems to know what he's doing.

 

I've got another mate who has had a Linn LP12 record player for 40 years.  But it's like Trigger's Brush.  Every component with the possible exception of the main platter, has been changed over the years.  It's a completely different animal now. That said, setting up the tonearm, proerly, correctly matching arm mass to cartridge compliance etc., all make a difference and are worth paying attention to.

 

Right.. I'm off out to listen to some proper music down the Cavern.... 

 

Col

[Compo 10,328]

11 hours ago, DJ360 said:

poor isolation from their own motor noise

 

That reminds me - last winter the mice ate the screened cable on the tone arm of my juke-box. I temproarily replaced it with an additional wire screening but it really needs a new piece of properly screend cable to kill  the motor and other noise interferance.

[Compo 10,328]

I decided to have a nice lie-in this morning but come 7:00am I was wide awake and could I get back to sleep? Could I heck!

[loppylugs 8,427]

Interesting responses on an interesting subject.

 

Col,. I think in passing you touched on something we all have little control over and that is room dynamics.  This with reference to setting up in hotel rooms.

 

Seems to me you could have the finest state of the art equipment and the whole affect could be changed or even ruined by room acoustics.

 

I learned over the last few years, being interested in the organ,  that building a fine instrument is only the beginning.  Someone trained in the art must then spend many hours 'voicing' the organ for the particular acoustic environment it is installed in.  Badly done, even a fine instrument can sound lousy.  When my electronic organ was delivered the dealer spent the best part of half a day with his assistant voicing the organ for my music room.   It sounded much better when he had finished than when he started.

 

Edited to add:.   I'm reminded again of the Flanders and Swann song.  It ended with the words,

 

I never cared for music much

Just my hi fidelity.  

[philmayfield 6,115]

I think we tend to look at other people’s interests and when we’re not passionate about it we think “what a waste of money”, tending to ignore the money we spend/waste on our own hobbies. Each to their own!

[philmayfield 6,115]

2 hours ago, loppylugs said:

Interesting responses on an interesting subject.

 

Col,. I think in passing you touched on something we all have little control over and that is room dynamics.  This with reference to setting up in hotel rooms.

 

Seems to me you could have the finest state of the art equipment and the whole affect could be changed or even ruined by room acoustics.

 

I learned over the last few years, being interested in the organ,  that building a fine instrument is only the beginning.  Someone trained in the art must then spend many hours 'voicing' the organ for the particular acoustic environment it is installed in.  Badly done, even a fine instrument can sound lousy.  When my electronic organ was delivered the dealer spent the best part of half a day with his assistant voicing the organ for my music room.   It sounded much better when he had finished than when he started.

 

Edited to add:.   I'm reminded again of the Flanders and Swann song.  It ended with the words,

 

I never cared for music much

Just my hi fidelity.  

Perhaps the best way to listen to hi fi is through quality headphones. The savings on speakers would be immense and the siting would not be critical. Surely using speakers requires an equidistant seating  position so a group of listeners could not enjoy the experience to the full. Then what do I know about hi fi? Nothing.

[plantfit 7,576]

All Mrs P wanted when she came home from the gym was Poached egg on toast, so I did two poached eggs and fresh cut bread toasted,eggs drained on kitchen roll when they were done to dry them (don't want soggy toast do you) and thick buttered toast,looked and smelled that good I did my self some, mmmmmmm

 

Rog

[philmayfield 6,115]

29 minutes ago, plantfit said:

All Mrs P wanted when she came home from the gym was Poached egg on toast, so I did two poached eggs and fresh cut bread toasted,eggs drained on kitchen roll when they were done to dry them (don't want soggy toast do you) and thick buttered toast,looked and smelled that good I did my self some, mmmmmmm

 

Rog

Quite right too. It is International Women’s Day!