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Oooooooo get you with your posh nosh :laugh: my lad buys it, looks like poo poo!    

 

I thought it was a Palestinian Sunni-Islamist fundamentalist organisation?  

Tic tic tic boooom!  :Shock:

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Just got back from QMC again........the last eight days have been a bit Traumatic to say the least,,...blood tests,,X-rays,,and today a visit to a Consultant........cut a long story short......problem

Result........CT Scans all clear......just got letter..been sweating for a fortnight......

Two years ago today..........my life changed forever,,,about this time i was on my way down to the operating theatre for what turned out to be a ten hour operation...........its been life changing in

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I managed a shuffle out to my garden this morning and saw that the peas had fattened up and the French beans were ready, together with some very first new potatoes, I asked the wife if I could have some with some salad for my dinner. Come dinner time the new potatoes tasted like those from years ago and the French beans were tender and tasty but no garden peas, she told me there were very few in each pod.  I thought this strange so this evening I ventured up the garden , looking at the peas left and all the pods seemed to have plenty in them , but have not filled out yet. I found in one corner a pile of discarded pods carefully hidden away . I have that feeling that they may have been full of peas but never made it to the kitchen.  There is no taste better than freshly harvested home grown food especially peas, if they reach the kitchen.

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6 hours ago, Brew said:

Perhaps Ayeup you could ask these experts just what it is about a ring main that is so 'highly dangerous', I'd be very interested to know.

Well with over 50 years post apprentice experience as an electrician, you could say I'm an expert Brew. The fact is, a ring circuit has many consuming devices within the ring, problem comes when one has to work on one of the circuits and do not realize it's a ring circuit, which can and usually has two points of isolation.

I'm informed that the elec at the long gone Cotgrave Colliery had a job to do on the 6.6Kv underground feeders, he wasn't conversant with ring mains and even though he'd isolated and even pulled the breaker , he hadn't taken into account the other leg of the ring main, it was still alive at 6600 volts. The very reason my old engineer at Clifton disapprove of ring mains. When we arrived at Cotgrave, we were warned verbally about the ring main, and that it was in full use, so if we had to work on any part of it, ISOLATE both legs.

In domestic wiring there is absolutely no sane reason to install a ring main, the only reason it's used is to use lower rated cables to cut costs.. Costs are probably only a few quid, and in my opinion, the costs don't justify the safety of anyone who might work on it, including the DIY home owner Brew.

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I believe that ring mains were ‘invented’ back in more austere times as a cost saving measure for expensive copper cable rather than using individual spurs. Additionally the load on the cable is not always evenly distributed where there are appliances close together as in kitchens.

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Quite correct Phil, I didn't think they were allowed this side of the pond, so checked the NEC, (National Electric Code) seems they are, but stringent rules apply. My wife worked as a purchasing agent for one of California's biggest electrical contractors and she'd never heard of them, so  they are probably are pretty rare in the US. Pity Dave isn't around, he had his contracting license in Canada, so could throw some light on them, their rules are pretty close to US rules.

 

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As a degree qualified Engineer Ayeup I have to say that your permit to work system was worse than useless or the engineer issuing it wasn't worth a damn.

It makes me cross when people do stupid things and then claim they are not to blame.

 

Of course a ring circuit powers many devices, that's what it's for!  The problems come about when idiots call themselves electricians and can't be trusted to put batteries in a torch, I hope you are not one of them.

Any electrician unable to correctly identify a circuit has no business calling himself an electrician. You should know with your experience that even after identifying and isolating a circuit you NEVER touch a conductive part until you have proved it dead.

There are lots of circuit diagrams for HV ring mains on the net. Show me one that cannot be isolated and made safe to work on. To say a properly installed  ring circuit is dangerous is nonsense.

 

I'm not going to argue the merits of radial v ring, there are advantages and disadvantages to both and both should be equally safe.

 

A quick look round with my friend Mr Google informs me that in the US the 6th biggest killer in the workplace is electrocution. In the UK HSE report of 2018 it doesn't even gain a mention - makes you think...

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, philmayfield said:

Hummus! Disgusting foreign muck! smile2

 

Compared to what? :)

 

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I have no idea how large companies work as regards to safety workings Brew, so cannot comment on safety procedures or even permit to work schemes stateside.

I served my time with the old NCB, so I'm familiar with it and the old M&Q Act regarding electricity in mining, it's applications and it's authorization of personnel and practices.

The NCB had a permit to work scheme that the individual authorized person, electricians and mechanics we supposed to use, in fact, I persuaded the Elec in Charge at Boulby to introduce it there underground and it worked well.

At British Gypsum at East Leake, we were responsible for our own safety, ie isolation and making sure a circuit was dead before working on it.

I might add, it's illegal to expose live conductors above 25 V dc to the atmosphere in any type of mine under the M&Q Act which also covers other minerals than coal under a separate Act.

In Australia, namely NSW, where I worked, the CMRA forbid anyone from being exposed to live conductors, each electrician was authorized by the Manager in writing to carry out his work, all companies down under work with the danger tag system. If a danger tag is tied to an isolator, only a senior member of staff could remove it if a tradesman had forgotten to remove it.

As a Leading Hand elec, (Chargehand) I was authorized to isolate HV circuits and earth them for the electricians or myself to work on. Permits to work were unknown, work orders were.

I had one accident on my shift, one of my electricians was burned on a 1.1Kv circuit he'd failed to isolate, long story, but the Mines Inspector ordered him be fired and was going ahead with a prosecution. Both were dropped on the pleading by the Colliery Elec Engineer, again long story and there were mitigating circumstances. Inspector decided to drop the case on condition safety was tightened up and it never happened again.

Again, accidents happen, and ring mains are asking for an accident! Unless you've done regular nightshifts you will never see my point, one becomes a walking zombie after a few years of nights!

As an example, one of my electricians called me one night to a problem he had, I might add he was a very competent elec, good at his job. He said he felt like an idiot calling me but couldn't locate a problem with a load centre. So I went down and helped him locate the problem, a loose wire he'd missed, and has happened to even the best elec's in the world at one time or another.

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Got up this morning and there was the Mike Tyson of spiders sitting brazenly in the middle of my conservatory (I swear he had tattoos on his face!). We eyed each other up whilst I had my breakfast. I don’t like spiders, they make my skin crawl, but I don’t kill them just catch them and put them outside, usually over the fence into my neighbours garden so they don’t come back! But this is the biggest one I have had to tackle so far, tarantula comes to mind.

 

So I went into ninja mood, got my (quite small) spider catching kit and my brush and went into battle. Went into the conservatory and it stood its ground, thought it might be dead but no luck. Tried to catch it but off it went towards the door into the house. It could have given Usain Bolt a run for his money. Stopped it with my brush, definitely don’t want it in the house, and it disappeared in the bristles. 

 

The door out of my conservatory is a bit suspect, I could open it and shake him out of the bristles but not sure if the door will shut. Definitely don’t want to take the brush through the kitchen in case he makes a run for it. I swear I could hear it laughing. I managed to get him out of the brush and commenced chasing it round the conservatory eventually getting my plastic jar over him so he was contained I then realised I had to slide the top under the jar to put him outside meaning I would come into quite close contact with it. 

 

Went and had a cup of tea (vodka might have been more fitting) and then went back into battle. He obviously wasn’t very happy but I tried to slip the lid under jar without hurting him. Unfortunately I dithered at precisely the wrong moment and he was off like a shot and went under the lip of the doors into the kitchen.

 

I have shut and locked the doors to the conservatory and am wondering if it might just be easier to sell the house!

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Being a walking zombie is no excuse for unsafe working practices. Accidents happen that's true but it has nothing to do with ring mains being inherently unsafe.

I have spent 30 years designing and fault finding on everything from 132kV down 110v and I resent the implication that I have put hundreds if not  thousands  of lives at risk by using a ring circuit.

 

I am aware of the mines and quarries act. I spent 19 hours straight underground at East Leake looking for an 11kV fault. It took that long because the fault was a rock fall in an abandoned and undocumented section of the mine, the mine map was wrong - the standards in mine working did not impress me.

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SG, sod preserving the species. A hefty whack with a large slipper is my method, then wipe it up with a tissue, then into the vegetable waste bin for recycling in my compost bin. 

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Shame on you, FLY2!  I don't like spiders but would never kill one. Bad karma. If you have cats, they usually sort out the spider problem. Cats have to sort out their own karma but usually come up smelling of roses!

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This is a public announcement:

 

Toilet blocks do NOT work well in washing machines.

 

That is all.

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SG. When you put a glass or jar over incy wincy spider, you then slide a piece of thin card under the glass and hold it in place while you eject said spider outside. Trying to put a lid under, you have to lift the glass up and out he comes. Card you can slup.under without lifting the glasd. Just saying.

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Katyjay, I would a thought in your neck of the woods you would use a Winchester or Colt 45 peacemaker ! That really shifts the little buggers.

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22 minutes ago, katyjay said:

 then slide a piece of thin card under the glass and hold it in place while you eject said spider outside. 

 

He is that big and built like a tank it will have to be thick card! I did notice he has a pattern (tattoo?) on his body that is how big he is. (I suppose it could be a she, aren’t the females bigger than the males, if not I definitely don’t want to have to deal with the female of this species.) He hasn’t appeared since our first round so will see what tomorrow will bring. Perhaps a good talking too will make him move out?

 

On on a side note I was hanging my washing out and noticed I had a young toad sat next to me. Am starting to feel like I am amassing a zoo!

 

 

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SGs post reminded me of one evening when I still lived at Bobbers Mill.  I was reading in the spare bedroom and just happened to see something move in my peripheral vision.  It moved very quickly along the floor near the skirting board and my initial thought was a mouse, based on its size.

 

I turned my attention away from the book and toward the scampering creature. It wasn't a mouse. It was the biggest arachnid I have ever seen.  Ear spitting scream brought my mother racing upstairs. She almost fainted when she saw it. Eventually, my father arrived, complete with usual sarky comments about  needing a sledgehammer.

 

By this time, the miscreant had taken cover behind an item of furniture but since both females in the household declared neither would sleep in the house that night unless the eight legged intruder was removed, dad started to shift the cabinet under which it had taken refuge.

 

Dad spent the war years in the tropics and had thus encountered all kinds of creepy crawlies, the sight of which would have seen me carted off to the psychiatric hospital. Usually, he picked them up in his hand and took them outside.  Not this one!  When it it finally broke cover and he saw the size of it, his face was a picture. I don't know what he did with it but I didn't sleep that night, wondering if it had any family members who were likely to come looking for it! Thankfully, none did.

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