How's your day?

[DJ360 6,721]

No wimpy plastic pipe for me!!  Proper copper.. and soldered....  As for stiffeners.. How dare you!! 

 

Except..  After last nights fiasco with my first ever failed solder joint.. I just used a compression fitting instead. Finally found my spring and put a double bend in the copper to allow the plastic to keep to its natural bend and take the stress out of the coupling. Job done.. relax.. have a nice soak..have a leisurely meal.. at the right time... then sit back and watch th re-run of The Bridge.

 

Perfick

[trogg 2,010]

DJ not using plastic pipe ,your old fashioned, move with the times, well thats what my son told me when I refused to have plastic pipe and fittings. Copper is strong and rigid and gives you the satisfaction of a job well done when completed.

[philmayfield 6,115]

That’s old technology now. I did notice that the engineers who fitted my new boiler in April still used the old techniques but I do think that plastic speedfit and push connectors are the way forward. Even copper push fit is simpler to use especially in confined spaces where using a blowtorch is difficult to manage safely. So called ‘proper’ plumbers still use end feed fittings and flow the solder in but I’ve seen quite a few failed joints over the years with that method. I guess Yorkshire fittings are more expensive.

[Brew 5,404]

2 hours ago, trogg said:

Copper is strong and rigid

 

And is why it creaks and groans as it expands and contracts  across joists etc. Plastic is light, cheap and very easy to work with. Providing you don't forget the inserts it's virtually foolproof.

[letsavagoo 961]

My bathroom was refurbished last year with new shower, basin and loo plus a radiator moved. Several months later my heating kept failing to turn on. The cause being the combi boiler which is outside in the garage had lost all pressure. Re-pressurising it got it working but within a few hours it had lost pressure. I searched the house looking for tell tale damp patches where pipe runs are but saw nothing. Eventually I found that one of the pipes feeding the new radiator in the bathroom was leaking. It was easy to access the pipe work as the radiator was on the bathroom wall the other side of which was under the stairs. The culprit was a joint in a new plastic pipe push fitting leaking very badly where it joined to the pre existing copper pipes on the plastic pipe side. I believe the cause was that the plastic pipe had been cut with a hacksaw and not 100% square. The correct snips should have been used. There wasn’t enough pipe length to recut it so it was replaced It with a copper ‘connex’ fitting with olives. Perfect. Personally I prefer and trust copper and solder. Never had a problem. If the pipes cleaned, bit of flux and even heat It works. The main problem I’ve encountered in the past is when working on existing pipes, even a small amount of water left in the pipes can prevent a good joint. I suspect that may be your issue Col.

[Jill Sparrow 10,303]

This is where New Basford Lad was so helpful. I still miss his contributions to the site and his hilarious plumbing stories.

[DJ360 6,721]

In all seriousness.. if I was doing a major job, such as the bathroom refurb I did a few years back.. I might consider using push fit plastic..or more likely copper push fit. But, for 'small' jobs like the outside tap I just fitted.. and especially for repairing the very iffy original 44 year old installation which caused me so much bother in the last couple of days.. I'll stick with metal. My old Plumber mate, who I've known for almost 60 years, says he always thought push fit and plastic were for amateurs.. and beneath his professional dignity.. but he now thinks they are brilliant.

 

On the subject of cost though.... a quick trawl of the Screwfix site for 15mm equal elbow fittings, reveals that plastic is not cheap, c.f. copper. I couldn't be bothered getting exact prices as there are often bulk savings for buying in 10s or 20s but... So it seems plastic push fit is cheaper than copper push fit.. but traditional brass 'compression' fittings are cheaper and good old end fed only about 12-15% of the cost of push fit.. though to be picky you also need solder. and a blowlamp

 

Plastic =                                            £1:19- 1:59 each.

Brass 'compression'                        £1:24 each.

Copper 'push fit'                               £ 1:79 each.

Copper 'Yorkshire' (pre-soldered) £ 0.74 each

Copper 'End fed'                                 £.0:20 each.

 

3metres of 15mm copper pipe = £5:74.  Plastic = £4.74.. so the plastic pipe is a bit cheaper... but you also need your 'inserts' at around 20p each.

 

For a small D.I.Y. job I can certainly see the attraction of plastic.. and the difference in price is probably far outweighed by the convenience and ease.. especially if you don't have experience of soldering..a blowlamp and other tools etc.  But its clear that a large install by a pro plumber is going to be vastly cheaper using traditional fittings.

 

Another thing to consider is whether inserting a section of plastic pipe into a copper system is 'breaking' the electrical Earth bonding which is required. Brew will know more about that.. but I am still wondering if my recent kitchen install did that.  The first thing the bloke did after stripping the old kitchen out.. was to break into the ceiling and connect to the incoming hot and cold copper feeds. which he then ran down the corner in plastic and along the floor to roughly where the new sink dishwasher and washing machine were going. On the upside.. the new electrics now have the whole house protected by RCDs. 

 

As seems to be the way with kitchen fitters. a pretty gruesome collection of plastic, copper and 'flexi'  pipes were all more or less hidden in the gap between the back of the cupboards and the wall. Everything was done for the easiest.  I wasn't impressed, but on the other hand was glad to finally be getting a nice shiny new kitchen so I kept my own counsel. To be fair when the plastering was done and the posh units fitted, nothing was visible but I shudder to think of that mess just out of sight.  The way they do things now is to bring all waste from appliances and the sinks to one sort of inverted 'Christmas Tree of U bends etc.. which take up so much space as to render the cupboard under the sink all but unusable. I'd previously had separate wastes for the Washer and Dishwasher, running outside to the same 'gulley' as the sink.  And they didn't take up half the kitchen.  I've just had a good look into the 'cupboard of horrors' just to remind myself and I noticed the single waste pipe to the outside is running slightly uphill.. and I can see daylight round the pipe.  Something else I'll have to sort out when I get a Round Tuit.

[DJ360 6,721]

4 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

even a small amount of water left in the pipes can prevent a good joint. I suspect that may be your issue Col.

 

It may well have been letsav..  though I've soldered similarly wet pipes before without much difficulty including a long term 'weepy' joint near the top of the rising main.. where I cut out a leaky end fed and put new pipe in using a solder ring coupler.  Another possibility dawned on me yesterday...

On Friday when trying to get the old olive onto the plastic incoming main.. I resorted to using a bit of Castrol grease.  I wiped my hands on a cloth afterwards.. but later used the same hands to flux the solder ring straight coupler which failed.  I suppose it's just possible that residual grease on my hands prevented the flux from working properly.  Who knows?

[philmayfield 6,115]

Traditional v push fit. I would imagine there is considerable time saved and reduced labour cost with the latter.

[Oztalgian 3,269]

DJ360I know what the plumbing problem was cased by. You used Yorkshire fittings in Lancashire of course they would not work! 

[loppylugs 8,427]

4 hours ago, Jill Sparrow said:

This is where New Basford Lad was so helpful. I still miss his contributions to the site and his hilarious plumbing stories.

I don't think I will ever forget the story of a donkey in the bathroom.   

[DJ360 6,721]

1 hour ago, Oztalgian said:

DJ360 I know what the plumbing problem was cased by. You used Yorkshire fittings in Lancashire of course they would not work! 

 

 

Drat!!  Why didn't I think of that...? 

 

1 hour ago, philmayfield said:

Traditional v push fit. I would imagine there is considerable time saved and reduced labour cost with the latter.

 

I honestly don't know.  As I understand it push fit joints stil have to be carefully prepared.

[philmayfield 6,115]

I've used push fit copper and it was a doddle. I used it to repair the work done by a 'proper' plumber who had used end feed fittings which leaked. I've  dealt with plumbers over many years, mainly industrially. I do any home plumbing work myself. I've many stories about plumbers to tell. There was the one who set fire to my mother in law's airing cupboard with his blow lamp, the one who caused and left an almighty gas leak at my mother's house when changing from Calor to natural gas, the one who omitted to fit a stopcock to our downstairs toilet cistern, the one who failed to fit a remote isolation valve to a gas fire, the one who made a dodgy mains connection at my neighbour's house and flooded the garage - I could go on. I have similar horrifying stories about electricians as well! The guys who fitted a new boiler and cylinder, whilst I was recovering from my hip operation, seemed to do a good job. There were loads of them. At one time I counted five vans on the drive!

[PeverilPeril 3,279]

On 8/21/2020 at 11:39 AM, carni said:

Quite agree DJ. The person on the tow path, who enlightened us about the killing of the Pike was himself a fisherman. He told us about the act of hitting the Pike on the head to kill them, he himself thought it was wrong and didn't condone the act, but apparently it is often practised by some fisherman for the reason you have written in your post. Not very sporting,when you have to kill to make your catch more likely. 

Totally incorrect! In the UK NO fisherman other than poachers, usually E Europeans will kill them. What you describe stopped decades ago. We are far more enlightened now and realised a long time ago that if there were pike present then there must be a lot of other fish there too. The quality and health of fish improves due to pike feeding on the weakest. The culture in France is totally different. They rate pike (Brochette) higher than trout as a sporting fish and kill them to eat. That was my experience in Brittany. I have eaten pike (caught fly fishing in France) and being predators, caught in reservoirs, their flesh is clean and they taste rather nice. Our club are actually considering stocking pike in one of our waters, where the fish are stunted due to their high numbers and density.

[carni 10,094]

To be honest PP I am pleased to read that the practice doesn't carry on today. I'm sure that all decent people who fish would also be glad the practice is now not used as well. Thank you PP for you post.

 

The mess that was laying on the bank  was once a live fish just living its life in the canal, everything living has to eat and the Pike is no different.

 

We do have a lot of E Europeans fishing in the canals that we use, so who knows, I wouldn't like to guess who was responsible, but who ever it was that killed the Pike certainly doesn't care about the environment by just leaving it there to rot.

 

Please don't think I am anti fishermen PP, I was only writing what the person on the towpath  described to us who know nothing about fishing. Any way there is always a good chance it was clonked on its noddle by a passing narrow boat.

[PeverilPeril 3,279]

Dead pike are found every late Springtime in the canals and on the towpaths. They spawn later than most coarse fish and are not good at recovering when the water warms up - which it does on the shallow canals. So any dead pike you see, more than likely died due to natural causes.

I was quite angry to see the banks of the River Cree near Newtown Stewart, littered with dead pike and perch many years ago. the Cree being a game river (Salmon and Sea Trout) made the locals detest any other species. I saw the same at Tranfyneyed (sp) in Wales. Some, so called anglers, were so intolerant and ignorant.

[carni 10,094]

I expect while out riding in the country side and tow paths as we have done since the 1980s we have to expect to see over time, some of natures sad side as well as the good. That is just life!

 

This was the first time we have seen a dead Pike, and being so large it was quite shocking. Anyway PP, thank you for the info in your last post about Pike and Springtime.

 

PS, I'll wave my ice cream next time we are at the reservoir just in case you are in one of the little boats.

[Oztalgian 3,269]

I have had a day like DJ360 with his plumbing.

Mine was going to be a much easier task or so I thought.

A must have on all Australian homes are fly screens and fly screen doors so when the cylinder expired on one of our doors and started to let the door close with a bang that shook the house I thought it was time to replace it. Being the engineer that I am I thought if I could replace like for like it would be so much easier so I took the old cylinder off made a note of the manufacturer and model number and toddled of to a large hardware outlet.

 

Searching through the shelves I found what I wanted, unfortunately the only colours available were black, brown, white and primrose, who has primrose yellow trim on their house? none of which matched our trim colour. The packaging said replaces model no ***** which was the one I had so I paid my money and took the replacement door closer home. The first problem was the 9 staples that held the backing card to the clear plastic front, I couldn't just cut through the plastic as some bright packaging guy had put the staples through the dimensions that show the mounting positions of the brackets for the door and door frame and I wanted to check that everything was the same, it was and I thought I could just replace the old cylinder with the new one.

First problem the lug on the end of the new cylinder was wider than the old one so I thought OK just put the new bracket on the door, oops, the hole spacings were not the same, about 1 hole diameter out. Fix, down to the workshop and file the lug on the new cylinder until it fits the old bracket. Next job mount the cylinder and put the rod through the bracket on the door, oops rod bigger than hole in old bracket. Fix, use new bracket, oops hole pattern again one hole out from old bracket. Fix, down to the workshop  to drill larger hole in door frame bracket, refit bracket, fit cylinder rod and adjust closing speed. Job done, replaces yes, interchangeable certainly not, a ten minute job took an hour. Will take it off another day and spray to match the existing paintwork.

[PeverilPeril 3,279]

A very good morning for me  I had tests done at W'ton Eye Hospital to find out why I had lost the sight in my left eye some weeks ago. The surgeon ( what a pleasant and efficient man he is ) said that it could probably be fixed with two ops using laser treatment. Failing that a major procedure should fix it. In layman's terms the plumbing that was used many years ago to hold the retina in position had come adrift.

So there is a good chance that this 'one eyed deaf old git' will become just a common 'deaf old git' 

[Cliff Ton 10,454]

Yesterday evening I went in a pub.

 

First time since the middle of March.

[Brew 5,404]

1 hour ago, PeverilPeril said:

So there is a good chance that this 'one eyed deaf old git' will become just a common 'deaf old git'

 

I'm sure we all really hope things go well PP...

[LizzieM 9,507]

Been for a face-to-face (with masks) consultation at the Park today.    All very organised at the hospital, only so many allowed into the building at any one time, temperature check, Covid form to complete etc before sitting in the waiting room.  It was kind of reassuring to have a face-to-face consultation (with masks).  Lovely man, we ended up discussing dogs!   More blood taken from my arm and a CT scan booked in a week's time with instructions not to wear anything with metal on it as they will put me through the scanner fully clothed rather than in a hospital gown to save cleaning changing rooms and gowns.  

Then spoke to my husband who is still in Jamaica until tonight.  He said last night they had a terrific storm, bordering on a Hurricane.  This is the storm we're expecting here in the UK tomorrow I should think, he's in for a bumpy ride back across the Atlantic tonight.  

[radfordred 6,284]

Crikey ...... that should keep em open  

 

(reply to 3 up)

[nonnaB 4,894]

Safe journey for your husband Lizzie. Just heard tonight US is expecting twin hurricanes Laura and Marco. Hope he misses them. If you get the tail end we will get the whiplash. Think we've had enough up to now.

Lizzie about your CT scan, my niece who works in radiology advises me to wear all cotton when I have a CT scan as once they stopped the scan because of a decoration on my underwear sewn with a metallic thread, then another time they think the contrast tube was leaking and it showed up as something strange on the monitor.. I have never worn a hospital gown when having a scan, I always wear my cotton garments. all the best for it.

[LizzieM 9,507]

Interesting what you say about CT scan attire Nonna, I’ve had quite a lot over the years but not for about 3 years and I’ve always had to wear a hospital gown.  This next time I’ve got to arrive early, sit in the car park and drink half a litre of tap water before going in the hospital.  I’m just relieved that I’m getting a scan as I’ve had a problem for months and the GP told me the other week that she can only send me for a scan if there is evidence of cancer.  Some might say I’m jumping the system but in my mind I’m saving the NHS money by paying for these blood tests and scan.