DJ360

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I read that there's a view  that CV was in Italy for a while before it was identified.  Stay safe Nonna.

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Went for a haircut at 12:00.  The chat amongst the ladies in the salon seemed to be 'Nothing you can do about CV.. you'll get it or you won't'.  I see that approach as a combination of selfishness and hopelessness..  I think we should all be taking sensible steps to avoid catching it, and therefore spreading it.

 

Meanwhile cases have been identified in Wigan ... not far from here.

 

In other news, I gave the back lawn its first cut of the year and tidied the borders up a bit.  It was a beautiful day.

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Think the ladies in the hairdressers are a bit stupid, if you forgive me saying. In a matter of 2 hours this afternoon the increase in CV was 52 new cases, thankfully not in this area. Today we have had confirmation of new hygiene measures. The premier is asking everyone to follow them scrupolessly. It makes sense to avoid certain things. We are asked to avoid any personal  contact with anyone , not to shake hands or kiss each other and keep a distance of one meter from another person. Extreme , I agree but if we don't this  virus is going to get worse.

People here live in apartments and are in constant contact with neighbours, passing them on the stairs, in lifts. Some apartments are very high with many apartments on each floor so it's so easy for the spread of everything.

Thankfully we live in the country. We still aren't safe though.

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1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

The chat amongst the ladies in the salon seemed to be 'Nothing you can do about CV.. you'll get it or you won't'.  I see that approach as a combination of selfishness and hopelessnes

 

A bit harsh Col

I'm of the opinion they have the right of it and all this talk of disinfecting every surface is pretty much useless against an air borne virus.

If contact transmission was really a problem I'm sure that wearing gloves as well as face masks would be recommended.

 

It rather seems to me to be some sort of advice given out by those who know full well there is very little to prevent the spread other than isolation but want to prevent people panicking and give them something to do. A placebo action if you will.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Brew said:

A bit harsh Col

 

Not really.  I'm talking about people who see no need to change their own behaviour because they don't feel personally threatened by the disease, or feel that nothing they can do will help.  This is clearly both wrong.. and selfish.

 

3 hours ago, Brew said:

I'm of the opinion they have the right of it and all this talk of disinfecting every surface is pretty much useless against an air borne virus.

 

But Brew.. it is principally, but not exclusively airborne.

 

It seems that this virus, just like Influenza and the other coronaviruses which cause the Common Cold, are all transmitted by droplets from coughs and sneezes.

 

However.. this does not have to be directly through the air and it seems that these viruses do not stay in the air floating about.. they fall to the ground within a few metres in still air. 

 

The thing is that these viruses can all survive on surfaces for long enough to transmit.  Estimates seem to vary between 'a few hours' and up to as long as 72 hours for hard surfaces.. much less for soft surfaces such as fabrics. An infected person is very likely to deposit the virus on surfaces.

 

World Health Organisation view.  https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

 

It follows that the logic of hand washing is to prevent transfer of anything which you might pick up from a surface, such as for e.g a shop door handle or a bus hand rail..from your hands... to your vulnerable mucus membranes in your eyes, nose and mouth. 

 

So.. if you have to go out and touch surfaces (Door handles, public transport, cash machines, card payment machines, public toilets, parking ticket machines.. etc., etc., which are touched by lots of people).. then it makes sense to thoroughly clean your hands as soon as possible and certainly before touching your eyes, nose or mouth.  That is what I do and have done routinely for years.

 

Yesterday I went out and used a cash machine, a supermarket trolley, card payment machine and also handled assorted goods in the shop.  I forgot my hand gel, so when I came home, I cleaned my hands properly.  I then took a cloth with dilute bleach and wiped my car steering wheel, door handles and controls, plus the front door knob, my keys, wallet and cards, and the handles of the cans of paint I bought.  The whole process took less than five minutes and it made me feel happier. 

 

I also think its a small price to pay if it saves me, my wife, or anybody else from acquiring the virus.. which is now clearly 'out there' in the general population, with cases pretty much going 'exponential'.

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9 hours ago, LizzieM said:

We’re now wondering if our youngest son has had Corona Virus.  He was in Japan in October until early November at the Rugby World Cup.  He developed a cold and bad chest whilst over there and for weeks dosed himself up with Actifed.  He was in Nottingham with us at Christmas and still struggling so I insisted he went to the GP as soon as he got home.  The doc found his blood oxygen levels were dangerously low and prescribed antibiotics and steroids and told to return a week later.  There was a significant improvement  after taking the medication but it still took him weeks to get well again. On the second visit to the surgery the GP told him that he’d only ever once seen such poor results and he almost called for an ambulance to get him into hospital!  

 

I'm not medically qualified Lizzie, but I think he would have passed it onto you and others if it was CV.  I have a young neighbour who is a very hard worker.  He works on powerlines and has basically been doing 12 hour days and lots of travelling for 15 years. until around Christmas.. when he was flattened by a chest infection.  It took him more than a month to shift it and he nearly lost his job over it. but he's OK now.

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4 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

Not really.  I'm talking about people who see no need to change their own behaviour because they don't feel personally threatened by the disease, or feel that nothing they can do will help.  This is clearly both wrong.. and selfis

 

Yes really Col.  You can have no knowledge of their behaviour or their level of personal hygiene.  You have judged them purely on a conversation   you happen to disagree with. These women in all probability are perfectly able assess the situation and realising they can do little it about have taken the pragmatic view that there is little to no point worrying about something that in all probability won't happen. It's not wrong nor is it clearly selfish.

I have read abstracts of the WHO, CDC etc and there is nothing in there that implies contact transmission. The most recommended precaution is plain soap and water with alcohol based sanitisers as a second choice if the former is not available. The NHS states that a virus on the hands has a life of only about 5 minutes.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Brew said:

Yes really Col.  You can have no knowledge of their behaviour or their level of personal hygiene.  You have judged them purely on a conversation   you happen to disagree with.

 

Yes. This has little to do with their personal hygeine.  They have clearly stated that nothing they can do will help and it's all.. in effect.. 'a lottery'.  The evidence is that they are wrong.  They can reduce the statistical chance of contracting the virus by hand washing in the circumstances and conditions I described above. It won't give them absolute protection.. but it may reduce their vulnerability, and by extension, the vulnerability of others they may come into contact with.

10 minutes ago, Brew said:

I have read abstracts of the WHO, CDC etc and there is nothing in there that implies contact transmission. The most recommended precaution is plain soap and water with alcohol based sanitisers as a second choice if the former is not available.

 

Then you have read different WHO guidelines to those I read.

 

11 minutes ago, Brew said:

The NHS states that a virus on the hands has a life of only about 5 minutes.

 

Show me your source please. Even if your source is valid it doesn't negate my method which is to just to  NOT touch face/eyes/mouth after touching stuff and before washing.  Five minutes is a long time.  Watch people. See how many times they touch something then shove their finger in their mouth, or up their nose.

 

I appreciate I might be coming over as a bit paranoid here.. but I'm in the next to top age group for dying from this bug and the top 'underlying conditions' group.  I'm not panicking.. but I am doing all I can to avoid being infected.

 

It seems I had some immunity (as did many people..) to 'Swine Flu'.  Many people have assorted sets of immunity to the older viruses which have been circulating for decades.  NOBODY has immunity to Covid-19.

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4 hours ago, catfan said:

Corolla virus you say ?

 

uklsyGAiiKk4AWVSJASx48HGixW0y89sb93FNEXm

 

 

Third time lucky maybe?

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This self importance, look at me, over the top quoting, is making this site quite unreadable :( 

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Maybe the hair stylist were having a bad hair day and wanted to get it off there chest. 

PS do they still use "Barbacide" to sterilizer  combs ? 

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Perhaps going for a haircut wasn’t absolutely necessary Col.

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When this CV became common news from China, we thought " oh dear poor souls, it's a long way from us it won't affect us". Now look where we are. A documentary yesterday ( only one of many) suggested we learn from the Chinese !

A giornalist living only a few km from Wahun was touring the streets saying they were doing all they could to prevent the spread of this virus. All the shops had their doors wide open so that no one touches the surfaces and those that were closed were just that " closed "

There were security checks everywhere and no one could pass without being " vetted".

The health specialists can't all be wrong.

We all think it can't possibly happen to us, but folks let's get our heads out of the sand.

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10 hours ago, DJ360 said:

 

Not really.  I'm talking about people who see no need to change their own behaviour because they don't feel personally threatened by the disease, or feel that nothing they can do will help.  This is clearly both wrong.. and selfish.

 

 

But Brew.. it is principally, but not exclusively airborne.

 

It seems that this virus, just like Influenza and the other coronaviruses which cause the Common Cold, are all transmitted by droplets from coughs and sneezes.

 

However.. this does not have to be directly through the air and it seems that these viruses do not stay in the air floating about.. they fall to the ground within a few metres in still air. 

 

The thing is that these viruses can all survive on surfaces for long enough to transmit.  Estimates seem to vary between 'a few hours' and up to as long as 72 hours for hard surfaces.. much less for soft surfaces such as fabrics. An infected person is very likely to deposit the virus on surfaces.

 

World Health Organisation view.  https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

 

It follows that the logic of hand washing is to prevent transfer of anything which you might pick up from a surface, such as for e.g a shop door handle or a bus hand rail..from your hands... to your vulnerable mucus membranes in your eyes, nose and mouth. 

 

So.. if you have to go out and touch surfaces (Door handles, public transport, cash machines, card payment machines, public toilets, parking ticket machines.. etc., etc., which are touched by lots of people).. then it makes sense to thoroughly clean your hands as soon as possible and certainly before touching your eyes, nose or mouth.  That is what I do and have done routinely for years.

 

Yesterday I went out and used a cash machine, a supermarket trolley, card payment machine and also handled assorted goods in the shop.  I forgot my hand gel, so when I came home, I cleaned my hands properly.  I then took a cloth with dilute bleach and wiped my car steering wheel, door handles and controls, plus the front door knob, my keys, wallet and cards, and the handles of the cans of paint I bought.  The whole process took less than five minutes and it made me feel happier. 

 

I also think its a small price to pay if it saves me, my wife, or anybody else from acquiring the virus.. which is now clearly 'out there' in the general population, with cases pretty much going 'exponential'.

I think if those ladies in the hairdressers had said, ' virtually nothing could be done ' they'd have been perfectly right. Hygiene will certainly play a part in reducing spread, very, very little impact though. Col, you say you came home and spent five minutes cleaning but you could have already been infected. You will need to do this constantly. Every time we go into a public space we can't possibly know who may have been infected, passed that way and coughed a few minutes before.

 

The only guaranteed way to ensure the virus isn't contracted is to stay in absolute isolation and not come into contact with another living soul for who knows how long.

 

Pretty difficult I would think.

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2 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

Perhaps going for a haircut wasn’t absolutely necessary Col.

 

 

You're right.. it wasn't.. but I decided to get it done while we were (just)  still in the containment phase.  Also, the hairdresser is very much 'local'. A small independent salon originally set up by a neighbour and now run by her daughter. Not much by way of cosmopolitan, much less international trade..  It'll be six weeks or so before I want (as opposed to actually 'need') another haircut.  If things have really 'kicked off' by that stage.. I will do my own hair with my trusty WAHL beard trimmer....  :)

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19 minutes ago, TBI said:

I think if those ladies in the hairdressers had said, ' virtually nothing could be done ' they'd have been perfectly right.

 

But they didn't, they said .'Nothing you can do'.

 

19 minutes ago, TBI said:

Hygiene will certainly play a part in reducing spread,

 

Which is exactly my point.. and the point being made by all experts and health authorities World wide.

 

19 minutes ago, TBI said:

very, very little impact though.

 

You can't know that.. and anyway.. every little helps.

 

19 minutes ago, TBI said:

Col, you say you came home and spent five minutes cleaning but you could have already been infected.

 

Possibly, but I minimise the risk of direct infection by staying away from people.  The cleaning is to minimise the risk of 'indirect' infection from virus left on surfaces.

19 minutes ago, TBI said:

You will need to do this constantly.

 

It's not difficult.

 

19 minutes ago, TBI said:

Every time we go into a public space we can't possibly know who may have been infected, passed that way and coughed a few minutes before.

 

True.

 

19 minutes ago, TBI said:

The only guaranteed way to ensure the virus isn't contracted is to stay in absolute isolation and not come into contact with another living soul for who knows how long.

 

Pretty difficult I would think.

 

Also true... but I'm struggling to understand why people are so resistant to taking reasonable measures to minimise risk. The whole thing has been repeatedly explained by Docs, Epidemiologists etc.  It is not rocket science.  Even the health secretary, Hancock seemed to understand properly and be explaining properly on Question Time last night.  If he can understand it.. anybody can..  (OK.. maybe not Trump... but you know what I mean..)

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Yes. This has little to do with their personal hygeine.  They have clearly stated that nothing they can do will help and it's all.. in effect.. 'a lottery'.  The evidence is that they are wrong.  They can reduce the statistical chance of contracting the virus by hand washing in the circumstances and conditions I described above. It won't give them absolute protection.. but it may reduce their vulnerability, and by extension, the vulnerability of others they may come into contact with.

 

Again you are making an assumption, you can't know whether they do as you describe simply because they have not specifically said so. People in my experience do not describe their personal habits in public. They are in all probability correct in the way they view the situation.

Hands washing is something most do on a regular basis through the day and that is as much as you can do. Statistically the chance of contracting Covid-19 are very small, at a guess I'd say about the same as having a win on the lottery...    ;)

 

How COVID-19  Spreads

 

Person-to-person spread

The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.

Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).

Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes.

These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.

Can someone spread the virus without being sick?

People are thought to be most contagious when they are most symptomatic (the sickest).

Some spread might be possible before people show symptoms; there have been reports of this occurring with this new coronavirus, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.

Spread from contact with infected surfaces or objects

It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html

 

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses...

Flu viruses capable of being transferred to hands and causing an infection can survive on hard surfaces for 24 hours. Infectious flu viruses can survive on tissues for only 15 minutes. Like cold viruses, infectious flu viruses survive for much shorter periods on the hands. After 5 minutes the amount of flu virus on hands falls to low levels.

(Don't know why the font has changed???)

 

NHS commom questions, not a single mention of contact transmission:

 

https://www.nhs.uk/corvid 19 recommendations 

 

Note I don't say the risk is zero  (most authorities say contact transmission MAY be possible but they don't know and are being extra cautious) but for most of us the risk is negligible and if you are seriously worried simply wear gloves.

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So Col, would you have taken such umbrage if they had said virtually nothing could be done? Is this being taken a bit too far. Should we all be wearing hazmat suits perhaps?

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4 hours ago, radfordred said:

This self importance, look at me, over the top quoting, is making this site quite unreadable :( 

 

Only to those who insist on reading it on a mobile phone, most of us have slightly more screen acreage and it's really not a problem mate

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10 minutes ago, TBI said:

So Col, would you have taken such umbrage if they had said virtually nothing could be done? Is this being taken a bit too far. Should we all be wearing hazmat suits perhaps?

 

They are hairdressers.  They work in very close proximity to each other and to their customers.  I assume that tyheir training involves at least basic hygeine. They also blow stuff all over the place with dryers etc.  I'd have thought they would at least ackowledge that basic hygeine might help.

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23 minutes ago, Brew said:

Statistically the chance of contracting Covid-19 are very small, at a guess I'd say about the same as having a win on the lottery...    

 

And the same factors apply.  You have no chance of winning if you don't buy a ticket.. minimal chance of winning if you do.

 

Similarly, you have a minimal BUT INCREASING chance of catching this virus because cases are now increasing exponentially. So I'll stick with my precautions.

 

And finally.. referencing statistics, my old psychology lecturer once stated: "You may well have only a 0.0000000001% chance of dying in an  aircrash..  However.. if you do die in an aircrash.. you are 100% dead. :blink:

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6 weeks ago I went to the QMC for a consultation re hearing loss, no unusual control measures in place at the entrance or clinic.

3 weeks ago and 2 weeks ago I went to the Ropewalk for a hearing aid assessment and fitting, no unusual control measures in place at the entrance or clinic.

 

I'm  off to the QMC in a couple of hours for a scan, I'll report back on any unusual control measures in place.

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I’ve survived an air-crash, a car-crash, been threatened with a knife and survived a very nasty gale in Falmouth Bay! :biggrin: Fingers crossed!

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I would advise you to carry on exactly as you are doing Col if it helps you. I simply think you were wrong to call people selfish based on a snippet of conversation you were not in all probability part of. They could be totally OCD about it for all we know and were simply stating there was nothing more they could do..

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