The Great Bestwood Colliery House Numbering Mystery..

[DJ360 6,721]

As I mentioned in the Social Functions section, after leaving Boowul this morning I drove over to Bestwood Colliery Village.  I was hoping to photograph the houses in which my Great Great Grandfather Samuel Berresford and  Great Grandad John Berresford lived in the late 19th/early 20th C.

 

According to the 1891 Census, Samuel was living, with his wife Sarah and 12 children at No. 50 . 'Main St', which could only really be Park Road.  And in 1901 Samuel's son John was living at No. 63 'Main St' with his much smaller family which included my Grandfather Arthur.. aged 2.  These are the house on the left as you drive into Bestwood Village.  They carry Terra Cotta type 'plaques' on their front walls with intertwined letters/numbers either showing '1876', or 'BCI'  (Bestwood Coal and Iron'.)

 

So.. got to Bestwood in the pouring rain and found No 50.  Took a pic and went looking for no 63.  No luck.  Highest No. was about 56, pretty much opposite the former 'Clubbie', 'Bestwood Hotel', which Granded Arthur and Grandma Doris kept until the early 60s and is now flats.

 

Hmm.  Saw some people in a house opposite No.50 looking out at my suspicious behaviour.. so I knocked at their door.  They were very helpful.  Told me they'd lived there for almost 50 years. But here's the thing. Their house and 20 others on the right as you drive into the village, were only built in the 1930s and had been numbered 1-20.  After this, the much older houses on the other side of the street were re-numbered starting with 21 just past the old 'Bestwood Welfare'.  Maths was never my strong point.. but I eventually worked out that this meant that old Samuel's 'No.50' in 1891, would have become 'No. 70', after the re-numbering.  But there are only about 30 ish houses in the whole row....  'Curiouser and curiouser'.. as Alice said...

 

To be honest.. not being very bright or observant, I'd never really spotted that the houses on the right of Park Road/Main Street are much newer and bigger than the original 1876 ones.  So, I looked at an old 1935 map and yep!!, no houses on that side.  Just Allotments. 

 

So.. all of the older houses are on the left as you go into the village.  The ones in Park Road, then the ones in Lancaster Road/Drive, 'The Square' and St Alban's Rd.

 

I'm wondering if the original houses. (I'm sure I read somewhere that there were 80 of them), were all numbered in some sort of sequence, rather than the current method of numbering each named street.  Who knows?

 

Well I hope somebody does....  Any ideas or info would be greatly appreciated.

 

Col

[catfan 14,793]

Was the rnumbering & new house building a result of the Bestwood Colliery opening ?  Whether a small part of the village existed before the colliery or not I don't know.

But thinking of Calverton & Cotgrave mines being sunk massive new estates were added to the relatively small villages. Many local villages were expanded due to sinking new mines.

This is not answering your question Col but gives the thread a "Bump" anyway.

[DJ360 6,721]

According to one of my books, 'very few people' lived at Bestwood before the colliery was sunk.

I've done a bit more checking.  it seems that Bestwood Coal and Iron built 68 houses ( and an 'Institute' ..AKA Bestwood Hotel) in 1876.  They were all on the left of the main street except for the pub.  Other people also seem to have been confused by Census records listing people living on 'Main Street', so it may be that it was originally called that, or maybe the Census takers decided to describe it that way, but definitely now called 'Park Road'. 

There were no houses on the right side until sometime after 1935.  Just allotment gardens.

The other 'original' houses are to the left of Park Road as you drive into the village. They are in 'Lancaster Rd', 'The Square' and 'St Alban's Rd.'  There is a newer estate beyond the church and the school, which includes 'The Spinney'., 'Hill Road' and 'Coronation Road'.  ( There's a clue.. maybe 1953?)  It's been there for as long as I remember and was probably built in the 1950s or 1960s I suspect.

 

There's a lot of much more recent housing around the village now, all built since the mine closed in 1967 and basically representing the new role of the village as a residential or 'dormitory' sort of place. Some is up on the left at the top of Park Road, beyond the former pithead.  Some is also where allotments and colliery yard were in on the right as you enter the village.  Mostly centred around 'High Main Drive'.. clearly named after the 'High Main' coal seam.

 

It strikes me that I've not come up with any census information for Bestwood Colliery that mentions any street name apart from 'Main Street'.  That seems a bit odd and I'll have to dig a bit deeper.  Maybe the street names came later?

 

Here's a current map:  https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Bestwood+Winding+Engine+House/@53.0227298,-1.1803275,16.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4879c06bcdf3f9c3:0x91c1e0e0dc2992cd!8m2!3d53.0215649!4d-1.1719362

[Cliff Ton 10,458]

This is from the 1880s, and clearly houses only on one side of the road.  I reckon what happened is that the numbering started on the left, went consecutively along the row of houses and reached 36 (there are 3 x blocks of 12), and then continued up the the two roads which are at right-angles. That could take you into the early 60s.

[DJ360 6,721]

Wow!  Thanks for that Kev. I count exactly 63, but some of the markings of the 'back to back' group on what is now called St Alban's Road are a bit ambiguous.  I think what that demonstrates is that there was quite a lot of development over time because the whole of that area described as Allotment Gardens' was built on not much later.  The Institiute (pub) and General Offices are still there.  Also, a Co-op store existed close where the P.O. is marked.  Still does, but not Co-op now I think. When I was a kid one of the houses  roughly half way along Park Road served as a Post Office and a tiny shop. It all makes me feel like driving straight back down and trying to make more sense of it...

 

Also yesterday I spoke to a young lady who was delivering kids to the school.  She put me in touch with the school secretary who promised to try to source me a copy of a book written by the former school head. A Mr Parr I believe. I promised a contribution to school funds in return.

 

I may never track down the exact houses in which Samuel and John lived, but it's worth a bit more digging I think.

 

It also dawned on me that in 1891 Sam and his 12 kids were all at No. 50.  By 1901, Sam was dead and only his son John was still listed in the village (At no 63)with his wife and three kids.  So.. somewhere along the way Sam's wife Sarah and 11 kids have disappeared.  Maybe had to give up the house when Sam died?  Who knows?  Also spotted on another source that Sam had 13 kids, one called Eliza appears age 8 then disappears.

I need to up my game on this.  I'm not a very expert Genealogical researcher.

 

Col

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Haven't grasped all this thread yet but if it's any help , in the 1939 Register ,   after the houses in The Square , the houses in Park Road go up to number 56 . 

Next in the sequence are houses on St.Albans Road that appear to go in linear fashion to number 42.

 

The only Beresford's listed on the 1939 Register are John Berresford and Rebecca born 1800's and 4 younger ones born in 1900s all living at number 22.

(1939 Register doesn't give what the relationships are but assume it's mum and dad and 4 kids ?)

Names Edna , Eric,  Eva and John.

[DJ360 6,721]

Many thanks for this David.  It all helps towards figuring out the numbering.  From another source I have learned that at some point 41 became 42, or vice versa.  I'll figure it out eventually !!  I'm a bit confused by those names though.  John's age in 1939 would be helpful.  My Dad was Wilfred John, I'm Colin John, so I think John figures strongly.  My brother is Philip Arthur.  It all sort of makes sense.

 

  Samuel arrived in around early 1870s and in the 1891 Census he had 12 children.  The oldest five aged between 12 and 20 were born in or near Chesterfield at Unstone Green, where Sam moved from. They were (oldest first)  Sarah (20), Arthur, Martha, Mary and John.(15)

The others all born in Bestwood were William, (12) Sarah, Frank, Selina, Samuel , George, and Annie. ( 9 months)

 

1901 sees them all gone except John, who is now married to Alice and has two children  Arthur, and an 'illegible' daughter.. possibly Sara.

I'm as certain as I can be that the Arthur above became my Grandad and he definitely worked in the coliiery before moving in to the Bestwood Hotel as licensee.

 

Sam Sr. died in 1898 and I can only guess that his older daughters were married by the 1901 census and the lads working.  Maybe Sam Sr's wife Sarah had to give up the house.  I don't know.

 

The names i'd have expected to see in 1939 somewhere in Bestwood are Wilfred (my Dad) and his sisters Dorothy and Marion.  But, it has occurred to me that My Grandma Doris Chambers came from Bulwell and I suppose it is possible that Arthur, Doris and their kids lived in Bulwell before taking the pub.  My Dad never mentioned that though.

 

All very odd, but I'm making it my mission this winter to do much more organised research and really try to get a handle on things.  It's just a pity I didn't ask more questions when people were still with us.

 

Col

 

[annswabey 599]

In 1901 Sarah (widow) and most of the children are still living at 50 Main St.  On the 1911, Sarah and 3 of her adult children are living at 50 Bestwood Colliery.  Assume this is the same place as 1891/1901?

[DAVIDW 1,681]

On the 1939 Register at 22 Park Road are :

John Berresford b16/07/1875 a Watchman at Colliery

Rebecca Berresford b16/10/1878

Eva born 1900 Overlooker or overlocker

John b 1902 Gardener

Edna b1906 Hosiery Clerk

Eric b1916 Centre lathe turner

[DAVIDW 1,681]

Could this be your Wilfred at Chesterfield in 1939?

(There is one other name censored..... could have been in forces ? )

 

 

Beresford Household (4 People) 3 Springfield Avenue , Chesterfield M.B., Derbyshire, England

 

	First name(s)	Last name(s)	DOB	Sex	Occupation	Marital status	Schedule	Schedule Sub Number
	Wilfred	Beresford	10 May 1914	Male	Tube Manufacturer Tube Cutte Iron	Single	67	3
	Arthur	Beresford	09 Jul 1892	Male	Table Manufacture Inspector Iron &	Married	67	1
	Ellen	Beresford	07 Jul 1892	Female	Unpaid Domestic Dutie Office Cleaning	Married	67	2

[DJ360 6,721]

Ann, thanks very much for that.  I think when I did my first bit of research I must have only  looked backwards from Grandad Arthur, to his Dad John and John's Dad Samuel. So missed Sarah (Sam's Wife) still there on the adjacent sheet.

 

David, thanks to you also. Your 1939 register makes some sense.  Looking at John's family in 1901, he only had his wife Sarah, and son Arthur ( who became my Grandad.)

Eva is clearly the 'illegible' name I have as a possible Sara.  Looking at it again.. it is Eva.  However'  Alice, John's wife, born 1878, seems to have been replaced by Rebecca. of the same age.... ?  Interesting.  Maybe just using a different forename?  Needs research.

 

Your  find of a Wilfred is I think a Red Herring.  My Dad Wilfred was born 1920 and grandad Arthur born 1899.  I think my Dad joined up in 1939 (Sherwood Forester's) because he was in Norway by 1940.. got captured. ( most of them did due to a monumental cock- up) and spent the rest of the war in POW camps in Germany and Poland.

 

I'm going to contact a relative on my Mum's side who I was unaware of until she contacted me.  She has done a monumental family tree and really knows how to go about it.  I'll get some advice from her and then set about it all more methodically.  Mrs Col says that Genes Re-united or somesuch are still billing me annually, so I need to see what I've already got.  Apart from a memory like a seive.

 

Thanks again to you both.

 

Col

 

[DAVIDW 1,681]

This may be your Arthur , Doris and Dorothy (if she later married a Mr Radford?)  plus one censored person  , on the 1939 Register.

 

Beresford Household (4 People) 6 Alnwick Close , Nottingham C.B., Nottinghamshire, England

 

	First name(s)	Last name(s)	DOB	Sex	Occupation	Marital status	Schedule	Schedule Sub Number
	Arthur	Beresford	19 Sep 1898	Male	Colliery Washerman	Married
	Doris	Beresford	30 Jul 1900	Female	Unpaid Domestic Duties	Married	33	2
	Dorothy E	Radford (Beresford)	12 Sep 1922	Female	Hosiery Underwear Machinist	Single	33	3
	Sorry, this record is officially closed.

[DAVIDW 1,681]

This must be your dad ? Front page of the Evening Post 02/02/1942

 

and then 3 years later in 1945 :

"A telegram sent by Pte. Wilfred J. Berresford. of 6. Alnwick-close. Highbury Estate, Bulwell. one of the prisoners of war released from Germany by the Russians, to his parents states that he has arrived in England safely and will be home soon"

03 April 1945 - Nottingham Journal - Nottingham,

[DJ360 6,721]

Wow David!  What can I say?  That is amazing.  Thank you so much!

That answers a lot of questions.  I was told my Dad volunteered, but it looks like he may have already been in the Territorials, so he'd have just been called up anyway.  As I understand it, he was on temporary attachment to another unit.  This unit was ordered to Norway on the ill-fated `1940 Expeditionary Force.'  Again as I understand, he could have requested return to his own unit but he just went along.  A wise decision as it turns out because many of his fellow Sherwood Foresters ended up as part of the 'Forgotten 14th' Army in Borneo where many had a terrible time at the hands of the Japanese.

I'm told that the 1940 Norway Expedition was a cock up in which many men were landed without proper arms and equipment.  Many were captured, including my Dad.

 

Dad said they spent quite some time on 'Iron Rations' while in another camp in Poland.  Dad was also ill for much of the time with chronic duodenal ulcers and was close to being selected for repatriation by the Germans, but was liberated by the Russians first.  He told me that the Russians were if anything more scary than the Germans.  They were very trigger happy. When the Russians were coming, the Germans just scarpered and left the POWs to themselves.  A Russian soldier charged into my Dad's hut. My Dad had an alarm clock ( Not sure why) It went off and the Russian soldier shot it to pieces...

 

Dad told me he was evacuated south from Poland and was very struck by the devastation of Warsaw which they passed through.  He was brought home by ship ( I think he mentioned the former liner turned troopship 'Orion') from somewhere in the 'Med, and round via the Bay of Biscay to Liverpool and then home to Nottingham by train.  This was shortly before D-Day, which is presumably why a trip up the Channel was not an option.

This info also answers another question.  As a child, I sometimes heard my Dad refer to what I thought was 'Annit', or 'Annette' close. I got the impression that an older relative of his lived there.   Maybe an Aunt or Uncle.  I searched the maps and records for a long time before I finally came up with Alnwick Close, which is only a short distance from where I was brought up, but was never in my 'range' as a kid.  And anyway I only ever knew my Grandparents living in the Bestwood Hotel, and later in a house on Moor Road Bestwood, after they retired, so I assumed that my Dad had lived there.

 

Clearly then, my Grandparents didn't take on the Bestwood Hotel until some time after 1945. Myt Mum once said something about my Grandma's family having 'a chip shop in Bulwell', but never elaborated.  That's something I'm going to have to research.

 

You have filled in some big gaps in my knowledge.   I cannot thank you enough.

 

Col

 

[colly0410 1,181]

I lived at 43 Park Road, found some old paper work there that said 43 Private Road, another name the road was called. The numbers were sequential (next doors were 42 & 44) which was unusual then, although the house I live in now is sequential but it's a 1980's built house. I'm also wondering if 22 Park Road was originally No 1 & the numbering then went left up what's now St Albans Road, there are some big houses there that were gaffers houses. The back to back houses were always known as The Jennel. ... There's a facebook page called Bestwood Village Community page, maybe ask on there, some info might turn up...

[DJ360 6,721]

Thanks for that colly.  I believe you are correct.  The original houses were numbered from 1 starting with the first just beyond what is now the old Welfare.  assume the numbering then went left into St Alban's Rd, but quite how it worked around the The Jennel is not clear.

Then when the houses on the other side of Park Road were built and numbered up to 20, the older ones were re-nbered stating at 21.

Some time in between, the Square, Lancaster Rd and Church Rd were also built.  It's a real puzzle.

 

Col 

 

P.S. David, yes, my Auntie Dorothy did marry a Radford.

 

Col

[pingnu 0]

On 10/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, Cliff Ton said:

This is from the 1880s, and clearly houses only on one side of the road.  I reckon what happened is that the numbering started on the left, went consecutively along the row of houses and reached 36 (there are 3 x blocks of 12), and then continued up the the two roads which are at right-angles. That could take you into the early 60s.

 

 

My Great Aunt was Jenny Downar and lived at 18 Main Street 1901 or 4 Bestwood 1891, 1 Bestwood says post office a Mr Taylor lived at No 14 Main Street or 1 Bestwood ( post office )
So perhaps numbering started again at right-angle

[Cliff Ton 10,458]

9 hours ago, pingnu said:

My Great Aunt was Jenny Downar and lived at 18 Main Street 1901 or 4 Bestwood 1891, 1 Bestwood says post office a Mr Taylor lived at No 14 Main Street or 1 Bestwood ( post office )

 

What are you referring to with 4 Bestwood or 1 Bestwood ?    Is that an alternative address ?