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I hear on the news yesterday that some schools are encouraging the children to wear "white peace poppy's" as opposed to the red rememberance poppy's we are used to, any comments? please keep them sensible

 

Rog

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The toddlers at our group painted poppies on paper plates this morning - aren't they great (even though some of them ended up as partly peace poppies!) here's a photo of some of them  

I do personally agree Margie but I'm sure there are many who would see it as a juxtaposition... the Red Poppy a symbol of remembrance for the fallen in battle and the White Poppy also remembrance but

I wear mine out of respect. Nothing more, nothing less. If folks see it as being PC, then so be it. It's something I've done since starting work. If I was homeless, and down to my last ten bob, I

Red for me, but no objections to white, as long as the kids appreciate what our forefathers endured. 

Also, that our boys blood has been spilt in virtually every country in the world in defence of freedom, liberty, justice and democracy.

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I must also say that much of our blood has been spilt for many other countries benefit too. The need to remove various Despots, Tyrants, Furhers, Emperors, Dictators and the odd self nominated King. We've never shied away from helping the less fortunate in the world, often the the detriment of our own country.

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Exactly NBL, I'll wear a new one, a new sticker on the car windscreen, a woolly one my granddaughter made for me on the car dashboard, a a wooden cross on a commemorative plaque dedicated to my grandfather who is actually buried in Gallilipoli. 

Edited.. The plaque is in the Rock Cemetery near the forest. I've put one there for a few years now.

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I am ex mob as you know, red poppy on my breast running up to the day. On parade on armistice Sunday red poppy behind my cap badge.

 

And the PC buggers can take a flying leap, my regiment also fought and died at Gallipoli, they fought and died at El Alamien and again on D day, right up to the armistice.

 

I have just read a very interesting book Tank Action; An Armoured Troop Commanders War 1944-45 by David Render.

 

David joined the Sherwood Rangers as a 19 year old casualty replacement just after D Day when the life expectancy of a young troop commander was 2 weeks, he survived and fought with them to the end of the war. I knew David as an old comrade, he was very active in the association until his death earlier this year. The book only written last year was something I was not expecting but it turns out a great read, sad, thrilling and very funny in parts.

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3 hours ago, MargieH said:

Would be good to wear both!   They are not mutually exclusive and both are important.  

I do personally agree Margie but I'm sure there are many who would see it as a juxtaposition... the Red Poppy a symbol of remembrance for the fallen in battle and the White Poppy also remembrance but more symbol of peace and pacifism. It always seems to me the Royal British Legion and the Peace Pledge Union don't sit too comfortably with each other either.

 

2 hours ago, NewBasfordlad said:

Some bloody idiot will in the future try to get red ones banned and that must never happen...........

I can see a danger in the future too, NBL. It won't happen today, the British public simply wouldn't stand for it. Look what happened last year when FIFA tried to ban the wearing of poppies by players. But in another generation, when most of those who were involved in the biggest conflicts or were touched by them, family, children or grandchildren have gone, it will really have become history to many. Before you know it, PC will intervene. That can't be allowed to happen.   

 

Like most I'm sure, I always hope for peace and so would have no problem with those who wish to wear a white poppy. Having said that, I personally will only be wearing a red poppy, as I always have, which I think is most appropriate during the period of Remembrance. Also of course, the money raised by the Poppy Appeal is for the direct benefit of veterans and their families.

 

During the summer I was in Belgium and spent a day visiting the cemeteries at Ypres. It brought home even more, the huge scale of losses and sacrifice but very much the tragedy of war.

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I usually deliver the poppy boxes to local schools there is no way I will deliver white, my son is fighting anywhere he is sent my RED poppy is worn with pride for him.

Correct me if I am wrong on this point, conscientious  objectors were made to wear a white flower to show that they would not fight for their country leading to the white poppy.

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As I understand it, many conscientious objectors refused to bear arms or try to kill the 'enemy'.  ( Interesting concept.. the 'enemy', when most of those doing the falling out are sat in bunkers and most of those doing the fighting have no real say..) .. but.. at least in WW1, many Conscientious Objectors acted as medics and stretcher bearers on the front line and put themselves in just as much danger as the rest.. and more than the 'Top Brass'.

 

However, I do think it would be rather sadly ironic if we were to fall out on a thread discussing the fine line between remembering the victims of war including many who survived, but were broken, and those who apply their energy to the avoidance and resolution of conflict.

 

For the record I have always worn a Red Poppy and will continue to do so.  I do this in remembrance of both my Grandad, Jack Whyman MM my Dad ( who both volunteered), other members of my family who didn't survive, but also everybody impacted and damaged by wars which were started by others, not by the ordinary 'Tommy', 'Fritz', etc. 

 

I will also consider whether to wear a white poppy.  It seems to me that one represents respectful remembrance, the other represents a hope that there will be no further victims to remember.

 

Col

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I always wear a red poppy and after Armistice Day, it will be placed on the frame containing the photo of John Samuel Ward, my great uncle, who died in 1918. That will be for him, for rifleman Archie Saunt, Sherwood Forester Ernest Ward and for Sgt Thomas William Sparrow of The Norfolk Regiment. I may have known all of them if they had lived. All Nottingham men.

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I gave you a like RR, for the spontaneity of your post, and the fact that it made me laugh first thing in the morning, which is a distinct rarity I can tell you !

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Yes, you’re right Jim. I stopped wearing one when it became a symbol of political correctness. A lot of the people sporting them today have no idea why. I can still remember those who lost their lives in the two world wars without outward show. Any subsequent military interventions have usually involved us in meddling in the affairs of other countries and not in our own defence.

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I gave you a like Phil, for the last sentence. Spot on.

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I've thought for years that unless we as a country are under threat and in imminent danger, then we should let other waring countries get on with it, especially the Near, Middle and Far East. The whole area has been at each other's throats since biblical times, and they aren't going to stop now. 

Dad used to say about the Arabs and Israelis ' Let em get on with it. It'll be less for us to deal with later'. 

 

Oh, and as for Africa, a dead loss, and a waste of time intervening.

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When I were a nipper living down the Meadows I used to stand with my Grandmother outside Bridgeway hall selling poppies,(probably 1956-57)I would only be about four years old onwards but every year I stood with her for quite a few years,one thing that I remember most about that time was the amount of men in suits with an arm of the suit jacket tucked inside out and kept inside the jacket if you know what I mean,or one the leg of the trousers folded and pinned up and the poor soul on crutches, or some poor guy in a wheel chair with no legs,I didn't know anything about the war but always felt these men had something to do with it and it is because of men (and women) like that that I wear my red poppy with pride and those memories of standing outside Bridgeway hall always come back to me

 

Rog

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54 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

Any subsequent military interventions have usually involved us in meddling in the affairs of other countries and not in our own defence.

Yes, but remember we went to war in 1914 at the defence of Belgium. In 1939 we went to war because of the invasions in Europe. On both occasions, the Kaiser and Hitler were surprised Britain intervened as they had no quarrel with us at that time. 

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I decided to make no further comment last night.  But because I couldn't sleep ( not due to this thread) I found myself pondering the concept of the 'Just War' and struggling to come up with many examples.  But I think I'll raise that elsewhere in the Forum.. maybe.

 

As I said above, I don't think it is appropriate for us to 'fall out' over the issue of (Red) Poppies, so I don't intend to respond to extreme views on either side. The original intended meaning of Poppies is totally clear and any 'modification' of this is merely political posturing by one side or the other.  The meaning of the Poppy as intended is to remember all of those from Britain and the Commonwealth who fell in conflict since 1918. What party they voted for or their personal political views are irrelevant.  Simple enough but the more you think about it the more complex it all gets.  (Commonwealth v Empire for example?)  Still.. I prefer to keep it simple.

 

From my perpective, the Red Poppy is also a focus for general reflection on the ultimate folly of war.   I also extend it to include all victims of those wars, not just those who fell in battle, but those who died in bombing and those who were otherwise affected by bereavement and all the other negative comsequences of war.. but I don't expect others to necessarily agree.

 

Also worth remembering that the Poppy was originally adopted by the American Legion and was not a British invention, nor was it immediately adopted in Britain or elsewhere.

 

I don't know much about the origin of white poppies, but leaving aside some people's desire to hi-jack symbols ( Red and White poppies, Cross of St George, Union Flag etc., for their own political ends, I see nothing inherently wrong with the idea of wearing a white poppy to show a desire for peace.  I also see no reason why we can't remember the 'fallen' and demonstrate a desire for peace simultaneously.

 

Col

 

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25 minutes ago, TBI said:

Yes, but remember we went to war in 1914 at the defence of Belgium. In 1939 we went to war because of the invasions in Europe. On both occasions, the Kaiser and Hitler were surprised Britain intervened as they had no quarrel with us at that time. 

 

You are of course correct.  I think techically it was the Nazi invasion of Poland which triggered British involvement in WWII.

But a number of people have raised the concept and issue of what is a 'Just War', even if not in so many words.

Maybe better to discuss that thorny issue in another thread though?

 

Col

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Basil didn't manage to keep off the subject, though, did he.... and I suppose particularly at this time of year - albeit a bit early at the moment  - it's bound to come up in some shape or form.

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