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I love the way you say 'I too am not getting into a political argument' after just having posted a huge political rant.

Phil, sorry but Pat died a few years back.   He was a great soldier to serve under he knew every mans name and was courteous to a fault. In WW11 he served in the desert with the LRDG and had

The problem as I see it is too much legal immigration, i.e. Not enough money to go around, too many claiming who have never contributed anything to this country. Benefit levels at this level cannot be

Some say north of the Trent is “up north” but as the Trent doesn’t always flow east to west that’s not a proper definition. In the papers recently it was said that the south is moving more southwards with an increase in population. That makes us northerners. Go to somewhere like Barnsley to get a true picture of northern life. See if you like the way we’re going to end up. smile2

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I think that by any standard or methodology used the line between north and south passes through Nottinghamshire. I once read somewhere that sociolinguistics (those that study accents/dialects) say that from the accent used the line between north and south is Hucknall. With the exception of coal mining areas south of this as they are considered to have a more northern accent.

I would use the River Trent as a good "border" anywhere to the south and east of the Trent is considered as "south"

I reckon that as far as the government knows "The North" begins at the Watford Gap services on the M1

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Barnsley  center is a great place on market day, really big market and no car park charges,multi story car park directly above indoor and out door market,cant beat that, great little cafes and plenty of bargains to be had, as for north and south we are just east of the trent and certainly NOT southerners, hill billy's yes,hay seeds yes even yellow bellies as they call themselves but not southerners

 

Rog

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Interesting topic this. I've always thought north of the Trent is north, but as Phil says, it changes direction around Newark, so maybe the A52 is a better guideline. However, that too veers north, so maybe draw a line straight across from say Derby to Grantham. That is about it.

However, the government reckons the north starts around South Mimms area. Others think north of Watford. Maybe Watford Gap Services. 

So Trent or A52, I don't mind. Personally, I think it start at The City Ground. 

Maybe some input from someone who has lived in either area could enlighten us. What do actual Southeners think is the actual border?

 

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I doubt they would be able to say. I've read today on the Beeb site about a presenter asking Londoners various geographical question similar to those in the citizen test. Accoring to some of the answers Edinburgh is up in the highlands, Cardif is in Cornwall and the Scottish border is anywhere from Sheffield to the lakes, America is north and Europe is south of the UK.

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Us as used ta live in Notts know as ow we wus East Midlanders, only them Londoners think it's northern. Now as am livin in the actual North, I allus reckon it starts at Sheffield.

 

Mrs C`s family hail from the Kingdom of Fife and as far as they're concerned the South starts at Berwick on Tweed.

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Always classed myself as Northern, probably because all my bosses in the 60s were either Scottish,Yorkshire or Geordies, and when i worked anywhere below Notts,the people were very different, and always called me a Northerner, i remember Coronation Street starting in 1960 and thinking how homely they sounded,

    We all knew an Elsie Tanner and Ena Sharples, every street had one, 

And yes Commo,had a boss at Marsdens who was forever telling me,he was from the "kingdom of Fife, Tommy Lindsay,lived in Hucknall, 

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Only trouble with that Loppy is that it runs roughly south to north, Exeter to Lincoln when first built a year or two back, though it has been improved in parts and tends to lose it's way a bit nowadays in the Cotswolds in the south westerly direction.

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As someone who has spent half of my life in the South I tend to agree with Commo that the North starts at Sheffield. Nottinghamshire is East Midlands, neither north nor south.   As an East Midlander living in the Home Counties for all those years no-one ever commented on my accent (which has never changed as far as I am aware) even though my 2 sons were born and brought up down south and speak with a southern accent, as does my husband. 

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Right, so we are East Midlenders, and the border between Nottinghamshire and South Yorkshire is the cut off point. 

So by that reckoning, south of Leicestershire is the South. Glad we've sorted that out. Although I reckon there'll still be some discussion on it.

On nearly thirty years of following Forest, I used to love seeing the signs on the M1 when returning home that read 'Welcome to Nottinghamshire. Robin Hood Country',

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And coming up the A1 from London seeing the big signs saying The Midlands,And The North lovely term the The Midlands but when we got to the midlands the signs never said you are now in the midlands

 

Rog

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Beyond Chesterfield must rank as the North then I presume ! Or The Peak District border.

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Going by accents, I would agree that the south starts as you leave Leicestershire, into Northamptonshire. Market Harborough, Leics has a definite East Midlands flat vowel sound as in grass, path, bath etc. Yet just two miles south on the A508 you come to the village of Great Oxendon, Northants and its all long vowels (barth, parth etc)

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And did you know some parts of Notts are further north than parts of Yorkshire,even as far north as Liverpool, you'd hardly call them the midlands,

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Now Ben, don't be nit picky !

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18 minutes ago, Deepdene Boy said:

Going by accents, I would agree that the south starts as you leave Leicestershire, into Northamptonshire. Market Harborough, Leics has a definite East Midlands flat vowel sound as in grass, path, bath etc. Yet just two miles south on the A508 you come to the village of Great Oxendon, Northants and its all long vowels (barth, parth etc)

I love having discussions with people who use those long vowel sounds,. I sometimes suggest that they aren't consistent in their pronunciation, for example:

"How do you pronounce Maths or mass?"  That gets them....

Also I point out that the way they pronounce the letter 'u'  is not consistent either.  They use a 'lighter' sound for words like cup or umbrella and a different sound for the 'u' in bull and cushion.  

My own accent varies - when teaching 'southern' children to read, I've had to teach them  the words in the accent that is right for where they live.   I never realised there were so many 'castles/carstles' in young children's books till I taught reading!

 

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