DJ360 6,721 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 4 hours ago, meeowed said: To say that political correctness has little to do with free speech shows a naivety of epic proportions karl marx used it to control the population easily this self censorship is an insidious cancer in our society and a means of gagging opposing views European investment built south africa yes they were exploited but so was everyone here by victorian mill and coal mine owners We have seen the destruction of the BNP UKIP Britain first leaders jailed and now the EDL This is not coincidence this is a concerted campaign The fact that we are now a minority in our own capital city shows the madness this country is descending into I am sure our grandparents didnt fight two world wars to have our country sold from under our feet As to ireland tony blair capitulated to the IRA by giving out amnesty a right he seemed unwilling or unable to grant British soldiers Hence the lawyers feeding frenzy Took me a minute to get what you were referring to there. Karl Marx never used anything to control anybody. Karl Marx was a Sociologist and Political -EconomicTheorist. He died in 1883. Long before the term Political Correctness was invented. As far as I know, he never held any form of political office. He had many interesting ideas, but some of his major predictions never came true. For example, he expected revolution to start in the Western Industrialised nations, whereas it actually started in Russia. His grave is in Highgate Cemetary in London. A Communist Plot. Since then, no so-called Marxist state has even got close to properly following up on what he suggested... but that, as they say a 'whole 'nuther' ball game'. So, a bit of Googling and I guess you are trying to refer to 'Cultural Marxism'. 'Cultural Marxism has absolutely nothing to do with Marxism, and very little to do with culture. It's just a convenient term used by right wingers, especially right wing conservative Americans, who like to pretend that political correctness prevents them from spouting their racist bigoted bile. It doesnt, but it's a way for right wing hate mongers to present themselves as the victims. Just like 'our' Tommy Yaxley -Lennon and that dreadfully mis treated chap Anders Breivik, who was 'forced' by 'Cultural Marxism', to speak his mind by the alternative method of shooting dead or blowing up 77 innocent people in 2011. Mostly innocent children. You have to feel for him.. poor misunderstood chap. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/19/cultural-marxism-a-uniting-theory-for-rightwingers-who-love-to-play-the-victim You really do seem to be identifying with some very nasty people. As for the BNP. As far as I know it still exists in all its Racist glory. Its manifesto is openly racist. Griffin was expelled from the party. Pretty much the same for the EDL, though I really can't be bothered wasting any more of a nice day researching the details. Yaxley-Lennon has been a member of both, and other right wing, racist organisations The real reasons for the demise, or limited impact of both parties and all the others who preceded them, is that they have no support to speak of. Whether we have too much immigration or not is a genuine and legitimate topic for discussion. We all have our views. However, it is not helpful to reduce it to racism or religious hatred. That will solve nothing. If you really want to blame somebody for 'selling our country from under our feet', I suggest you start with Thatcher. It is the privatisation programmes started by her which have led to our publicly owned utilities being sold to companies abroad, for e.g., in France, which companies are in turn owned by the Governments of those countries. I'd also have a look at the way that all of our public services are being sold off, or contracted out, to privately owned companies. SERCO, Capita, Carrillion, G4S etc., etc., who continue to 'win' contracts and hoover up millions of pounds of Taxpayers money, despite repeated failure to deliver what they were actually paid to deliver. None of this is the result of Marxism, 'Political Correctness', Immigration, or any of the other things which seem to worry you. Nope. All achieved by our very own Tories and their mates, with a bit of help from T Bliar. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Commo 1,292 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 By `ell Col, if this is you having the last word on the subject I'm glad that you're not going to keep going! 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ360 6,721 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Not trying to have the last word on anything Graham. I think most if not all of my posts in this thread have addressed a different comment. But, when people post stuff which is factually incorrect, such as the stuff about Marx above, I just like to put things straight. I've said this many times. People are entitled to their views, but I don't believe people are entitled to support their views with inaccurate information, or to make potentially imflammatory statements without expecting a response. A couple of things I'd like to respond to a bit later, because I owe those two posters a response, because they both addresed me. Then I'm done... till the next politically charged 'one liner' appears. I got into this thread because of the reference to Yaxley-Lennon. I thought it was only fair to point out that he was not gaoled for his views, but for being a criminal. Then lots of others jumped in with assorted views.. on much wider topics as they are of course entitled to do. And I'm entitled to respond. Yet it seems it is only me that gets labelled for it. Oh well... Col 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,408 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Meeowed has a point I think many agree with - political correctness is strangling free speech to the detriment of all. Who here truly speaks their mind for fear of falling foul of the censors? He's totally wrong about Marx. There is a delicious irony here in that if he read Das Kapital, the first volume, he would be forced to agree with him. Marx used the very situation Meeowd quotes, the exploitation of workers by Victorian mill owners, as evidence for his economic theories. Had he said Corbyn's idol Lenin then that would make far more sense. I could expand this further but I can hear NS minds starting to glaze over. So we have Col on the left and Meeowed on the right both alluding to a massive conspiracy by various factions. It would make interesting reading to see what drew them to those conclusions. For myself I declare no affiliation and have in my time voted at least once for all the major political parties and for several independents at local level. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewBasfordlad 3,599 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Col, it's a very good job your here to put everyone right, when they are 'factually incorrect' but do tell me what make you so sure your always right, even I make the odd mistake, yes you heard it here folks NBL makes the odd mistake. By the way Col you never got back about Corbyn's anti Semitism, even Tom Watson as now stated 'Labour face's eternal shame' over anti-Semitism. Me I loved Mrs T, wish there was someone like here now the country needs it. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LizzieM 9,507 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Yes Colin, I too loved Maggie and wish Mrs May had her strength and qualities. We certainly wouldn’t be in this mess if Maggie was in power. Oops, sorry for getting political. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,408 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, NewBasfordlad said: Me I loved Mrs T, wish there was someone like here now the country needs it. Blechhhh. Though to be honest I did vote for her first time round, pity she went power mad... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Some very long winded posts Col, and I gave up halfway through the first. I was always told that anyone who goes overboard with their explanations has lost the argument. However, you'll no doubt give us your last, last, last word on the subject. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LizzieM 9,507 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 In those days (from May 1979 through most of the 80s) we had a strong leadership and Government. Today I couldn’t tell you who holds a particular Government Office, they’re all nondescript individuals. If Labour were in power it would be the same ....... never heard of the majority of them, except Corbyn and Diane Abbott!! 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Anyone who thinks Dianne Abbott warrants a cabinet position is dangerous in the extreme ! 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Col at least makes intelligent observations - if you can't be bothered to read a few paragraphs, then what does it say about you? A contrary voice against the predominately right wing members (well, those who post). Would never agree with those who think Thatcher was a "good thing" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 It's repetitive, that's why, and basically provocative to anyone with remotely opposing views. Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with the way I am thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 We're mostly of an age where we're all set in our ways, which have developed and formulated over many years, and non of us are going to change now, so thereby arguments such as this will carry on interminably. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Don't you think that your views are provocative for those who don't agree with you? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 Quite possibly, but that's life. We could go round in circles eternally like verbal ping pong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LizzieM 9,507 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 We all have our own Political opinions and leanings and that’s why we should refrain from getting into such discussions. Nothing will change my mind regarding politics, no matter what a Nottstalgian or anyone else says and in fact this is possibly the first time I’ve ever commented on here about anything political because I don’t like to stir. So let’s get back to the title of this thread WORLD WAR ONE 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 We won ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
annswabey 599 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 And so many lives were lost - don't forget that 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LizzieM 9,507 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 And then there was another War. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 And I'm afraid we're still recovering from that one. Perpetual debt ! History in the making though ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,408 Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 I find different views and opinions interesting. Whilst Col and I will probably have little we agree on in our political views he makes some good points and makes them well. Like all of us he has his 'blind' side but as he regularly points out he is entitled to his opinion. No one is getting hot under the collar though some may feel a little discomfort when long held beliefs are challenged, it's a life long learning process and helps us progress.We would still burn witches at the stake were it not so. The truth is often uncomfortable but if we learn to accept each others little foibles and not become aggressive we may actually learn something. It's just really sad that in politics the truth is a rare commodity and hard to come by 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ360 6,721 Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 5 hours ago, Brew said: Meeowed has a point I think many agree with - political correctness is strangling free speech to the detriment of all. Who here truly speaks their mind for fear of falling foul of the censors? He's totally wrong about Marx. There is a delicious irony here in that if he read Das Kapital, the first volume, he would be forced to agree with him. Marx used the very situation Meeowd quotes, the exploitation of workers by Victorian mill owners, as evidence for his economic theories. Had he said Corbyn's idol Lenin then that would make far more sense. I could expand this further but I can hear NS minds starting to glaze over. So we have Col on the left and Meeowed on the right both alluding to a massive conspiracy by various factions. It would make interesting reading to see what drew them to those conclusions. For myself I declare no affiliation and have in my time voted at least once for all the major political parties and for several independents at local level. Brew, I'm not one of those who think political correctness strangles free speech. I have never felt that I was unable to express a view on anything. There is one exception. I am not allowed, under UK Law, to preach hate, discrimination etc. But tht's no loss to me because I have no desire to do those things. I can quite legally question, or support levels of immigration.. I can be critical of Islam, or any other religion, etc. But, under UK Law.. I cannot preach hate, incite violence etc., etc. That is exactly what those invoking the 'specious' or 'made up' concept of 'Cultural Marxism' ( AKA 'Political Correctness') want to stop. They want to preach hate, division, violence, discrimination etc., etc. and not be limited by law. The US racist Republican Steve Bannon revels in his hate speech. Is that helpful to us? As for conspiracy. I can't speak for Meeowed. My view is that we have in the UK at present, a Tory Govt which is intent upon destroying Public Services and flogging off what's left to its friends.. for profit. I am frankly mystified as to why people can't see this. Every possible public service/enterprise etc., is being sold off. Those that are not actually closed down, are contracted out to the Tories' preferred bidders'. The objective is obvious. The Tories do not care a fig about Public Services, or those who need them. They just see all Public Services as a 'cash cow', to be exploited by themselves and their friends. the numerous 'outsourcing' companies ( Serco, Crapita, etc., etc.) constantly and repeatedly fail to deliver, yet they continue to 'win' new contracts. What does that tell you? It tells me that the provision of services is a secondary consideration. The real object is to transefer every last penny of Tax Payer's money, into private hands. Theft.. pure and simple. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ360 6,721 Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 5 hours ago, NewBasfordlad said: Col, it's a very good job your here to put everyone right, when they are 'factually incorrect' but do tell me what make you so sure your always right, even I make the odd mistake, yes you heard it here folks NBL makes the odd mistake. By the way Col you never got back about Corbyn's anti Semitism, even Tom Watson as now stated 'Labour face's eternal shame' over anti-Semitism. Me I loved Mrs T, wish there was someone like here now the country needs it. Colin, I don't claim to be always right, or to put people right. I don't expect people to agree with me on everything either. I just ask that people produce some sort of evidence to support what they claim are 'facts'. The stuff about Marx above is a classic example. I posted a little earlier that I wanted to give my view on Anti Semitism, and I also posted that I wanted to reply to two people. They were Brew.. who I've now replied to, and yourself. There were two points we were at odds on as I recall. The first was Taxation. I'll admit I wasn't too clear there. I totally agree with you that nobody should pay more in taxation than the law requires, but I do think we need better ways of ensuring the likes of Amazon, Apple etc., pay their dues. To be blunt.. they are taking the pi$$, so in my view change in the law is needed. But, mostly, I was trying to 'rant' about the way in which the Tories are systematically flogging off and privatising every last bit of our public services. Just have a look at my reply to Brew for my views on this. Right. Anti Semitism. I do not believe for one minute that Corbyn is 'AS'. I don't get what you mean when you say it is 'obvious', or whatever word you used. Give me some evidence. Give me some examples. There are three elements to this. 1. Corbyn is unashamedly opposed to much of what the Israeli state does in regard to Palestine. I agree with him. Sadly, there are assorted elements who portray this opposition to the Israeli state, as AS. This is simply not the case. 2. I am mystified as to why Corbyn is allowing this to drag on. He is allowing others to set the agenda and his latest 'apology' tonight was neither necessary nor edifying. It points to flaws in his leadership style. It does not make him AS. It reminds me a bit of the way Labour allowed themselves to be forced into accepting responsibility for the World Economic Crash of 2008. Clearly they did not cause that.. and I was mightily annoyed when they accepted blame. Criticism of Israeli policy toward Palestine is not AS. I'm still waiting for any of the baying mob to actually produce evidence of any AS in the Labour Party. I'm sure it exists, as it does in every other party and in society at large. I don't see any extra problem with Labour. 3. It is obvious to anyone who wants to see it, that there has been a concerted media campaign against Corbyn ever since he became Leader. Accusations and distortions abound. Clearly it is because the right fear Corbyn. Not because of some cobblers about him being a Marxist-Leninist Bomb Throwing IRA Sympathising Jew Hater, and not because they seriousy believe he will 'ruin the country'. No. It is because they fear losing their power and their opportunity to continue 'asset stripping' the UK for their own benefit, when Corbyn and Labour start to redress the balance and repair the social divide caused by the Tories. That's my take. Col P.S. Mrs T. I was sickened by her. She genuinely made my flesh crawl. All that pompous tripe about 'We Are A Grandmother'. ..and hi-jacking the words of St Francis of Assisi. Truly nauseating. All she did was to 'cure' us of various illnesses we didn't have and in the process leave us with no industry, damaged youth and a divided society. A truly horrible woman. Esther Mc Vey is a much less intelligent version for the 21st C. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,408 Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 If you think you could stand in the market square, as in days of yore, and openly criticise Islam with impunity I think you are very much mistaken. People with pointed helmets and a bad attitude would quickly disavow you of your right to do so. The definition of a hate speech is so ambiguous that virtually anything you say can be construed as a 'hate' speech. Hate speech is one that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity. Criticism is a form of attack. Privatisation. Can you not remember Blair and Mandelson? 2002 - 2008 and the disastrous PFI (Private Finance Initiatives) that is causing so much grief in the NHS and others at the moment? Where Thatcher led Blair willingly jumped on the band wagon, he just chose to wrap it in a different envelope. Didn't Gordon Brown raid the pension funds of billions to pay for Labours poor fiscal performance? I take your point about public services being reduced. I do not accept that it's the Tories and their cronies and not Labour and their cronies that are doing it. They are both as bad. I cannot offer evidence (I've not looked) of Corbyn and AS. There is a lot of evidence for his support of the IRA and his flat refusal (5 times in one interview) to condemn the violence of that campaign. He still supports a united Ireland despite a referendum which returned a vote of over 98% to remain part of Britain. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trogg 2,010 Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 Great comment Annswabey some people forget the millions who died, injured and had their lives ruined by war. Old men tend to start wars and send in the young to die. The economic cost as well , just think how all that money spent on fighting the wars could have benefited education, health and living standards. That's not to say we shouldn't maintain a credible defence force. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.