IAN123.

World War One.

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I find different views and opinions interesting. Whilst Col and I will probably have little we agree on in our political views he makes some good points and makes them well. Like all of us he has his 'blind' side but as he regularly  points out  he is entitled to his opinion.

 

No one is getting hot under the collar though some may feel a little discomfort when long held beliefs are challenged, it's a life long learning process and helps us progress.We would still burn witches at the stake were it not so.

 

The truth is often uncomfortable but if we learn to accept each others little foibles and not become aggressive we may actually learn something.

 

It's just really sad that in politics the truth is a rare commodity and hard to come by

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5 hours ago, Brew said:

Meeowed has a point I think many agree with - political correctness is strangling free speech to the detriment of all.  Who here truly speaks their mind for fear of falling foul of the censors?

 

He's totally wrong about Marx. There is a delicious irony here in that if he read Das Kapital, the first volume, he would be forced to agree with him. Marx used the very situation Meeowd quotes, the exploitation of workers by Victorian mill owners, as evidence for his economic theories.

 

Had he said Corbyn's idol Lenin then that would make far more sense. I could expand this further but I can hear NS minds starting to glaze over.

 

So we have Col on the left and Meeowed on the right both alluding to a massive conspiracy by various factions. It would make interesting reading to see what drew them to those conclusions.

 

For myself I declare no affiliation and have in my time voted at least once for all the major political parties and for several independents at local level.

 

 

 

Brew, I'm not one of those who think political correctness strangles free speech. I have never felt that I was unable to express a view on anything.  There is one exception.  I am not allowed, under UK Law, to preach hate, discrimination etc.  But tht's no loss to me because I have no desire to do those things.  I can quite legally question, or support levels of immigration.. I can be critical of Islam, or any other religion, etc.  But, under UK Law.. I cannot preach hate, incite violence etc., etc. That is exactly what those invoking the 'specious' or 'made up' concept of  'Cultural Marxism' ( AKA 'Political Correctness') want to stop. They want to preach hate, division, violence, discrimination etc., etc. and not be limited by law. The US racist Republican Steve Bannon revels in his hate speech.  Is that helpful to us?

 

As for conspiracy.  I can't speak for Meeowed.  My view is that we have in the UK at present, a Tory Govt which is intent upon destroying Public Services  and flogging off what's left to its friends.. for profit.

I am frankly mystified as to why people can't see this.  Every possible public service/enterprise etc., is being sold off.  Those that are not actually closed down, are contracted out to the Tories' preferred bidders'.  The objective is obvious.  The Tories do not care a fig about Public Services, or those who need them.  They just see all Public Services as a 'cash cow', to be exploited by themselves and their friends.  the numerous 'outsourcing' companies ( Serco, Crapita, etc., etc.) constantly and repeatedly fail to deliver, yet they continue to 'win' new contracts.  What does that tell you?   It tells me that the provision of services is a secondary consideration.  The real object is to transefer every last penny of Tax Payer's money, into private hands.  Theft.. pure and simple.

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5 hours ago, NewBasfordlad said:

Col, it's a very good job your here to put everyone right, when they are 'factually incorrect' but do tell me what make you so sure your always right, even I make the odd mistake, yes you heard it here folks NBL makes the odd mistake.

 

By the way Col you never got back about Corbyn's anti Semitism, even Tom Watson as now stated 'Labour face's eternal shame' over anti-Semitism.

 

Me I loved Mrs T, wish there was someone like here now the country needs it.

 

Colin, I don't claim to be always right, or to put people right.   I don't expect people to agree with me on everything either.  I just ask that people produce some sort of evidence to support what they claim are 'facts'.  The stuff about Marx above is a classic example.

 

I posted a little earlier that I wanted to give my view on Anti Semitism, and I also posted that I wanted to reply to two people.  They were Brew.. who I've now replied to, and yourself.

 

There were two points we were at odds on as I recall.  The first was Taxation.  I'll admit I wasn't too clear there.  I totally agree with you that nobody should pay more in taxation than the law requires, but I do think we need better ways of ensuring the likes of Amazon, Apple etc., pay their dues.  To be blunt.. they are taking the pi$$, so in my view change in the law is needed.  But, mostly, I was trying to 'rant' about the way in which the Tories are systematically flogging off and privatising every last bit of our public services. Just have a look at my reply to Brew for my views on this.

 

Right.  Anti Semitism.  I do not believe for one minute that Corbyn is 'AS'.  I don't get what you mean when you say it is 'obvious', or whatever word you used.  Give me some evidence.  Give me some examples.

 

There are three elements to this.

 

1.  Corbyn is unashamedly opposed to much of what the Israeli state does in regard to Palestine.  I agree with him.  Sadly, there are assorted elements who portray this opposition to the Israeli state, as AS.  This is simply not the case.

 

2. I am mystified as to why Corbyn is allowing this to drag on.  He is allowing others to set the agenda and his latest 'apology' tonight was neither necessary nor edifying. It points to flaws in his leadership style.  It does not make him AS.  It reminds me a bit of the way Labour allowed themselves to be forced into accepting responsibility for the World Economic Crash of 2008.  Clearly they did not cause that.. and I was mightily annoyed when they accepted blame.  Criticism of Israeli policy toward Palestine is not AS.   I'm still waiting for any of the baying mob to actually produce evidence of any AS in the Labour Party. I'm sure it exists, as it does in every other party and in society at large.  I don't see any extra problem with Labour.

 

3. It is obvious to anyone who wants to see it, that there has been a concerted media campaign against Corbyn ever since he became Leader.  Accusations and distortions abound.  Clearly it is because the right fear Corbyn.  Not because of some cobblers about him being a Marxist-Leninist Bomb Throwing IRA Sympathising Jew Hater, and not because they seriousy believe he will 'ruin the country'.  No.  It is because they fear losing their power and their opportunity to continue 'asset stripping' the UK for their own benefit, when Corbyn and Labour start to redress the balance and repair the social divide caused by the Tories.

 

That's my take.

 

Col

 

P.S.  Mrs T.  I was sickened by her.  She  genuinely made my flesh crawl.  All that pompous tripe about 'We Are A Grandmother'. ..and hi-jacking the words of St Francis of Assisi.  Truly nauseating. All she did was to 'cure' us of various illnesses we didn't have and in the process leave us with no industry, damaged youth and a divided society. A truly horrible woman. Esther Mc Vey is a much less intelligent version for the 21st C.

 

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If you think you could stand in the market square, as in days of yore, and openly criticise Islam with impunity I think you are very much mistaken.

People with pointed helmets and a bad attitude would quickly disavow you of your right to do so. The definition of a hate speech is so ambiguous that virtually anything you say can be construed as a 'hate' speech.

 

Hate speech is one that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

Criticism is a form of attack.

 

Privatisation.

Can you not remember Blair and Mandelson? 2002 - 2008 and the disastrous PFI (Private Finance Initiatives) that is causing so much grief in the NHS and others at the moment?

Where Thatcher led Blair willingly jumped on the band wagon, he just chose to wrap it in a different envelope.

Didn't Gordon Brown raid the pension funds of billions to pay for Labours poor fiscal performance?

 

I take your point about public services being reduced. I do not accept that it's the Tories and their cronies and not Labour and their cronies that are doing it. They are both as bad.

 

I cannot offer evidence (I've not looked) of Corbyn and AS. There is a lot of evidence for his support of the IRA and his flat refusal (5 times in one interview) to condemn the violence of that campaign.

 

He still supports a united Ireland despite a referendum which returned a vote of over 98% to remain part of Britain.

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Great comment Annswabey  some people forget the millions who died, injured and had their lives ruined by war. Old men tend to start wars and send in the young to die. The economic cost as well , just think how all that money spent on fighting the wars could have benefited education, health and living standards. That's not to say we shouldn't maintain a credible defence force.

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I have no time for either Blair or Corbyn - Blair handing out amnesty to IRA while ppl like his wife make money from charging our troops for so called "atrocities" that (only happened in the mind of fantasists)  a long time ago. Corbyn will not face veterans nor support todays servicemen. My son is a serving Marine of whom i am very proud and my late husband served through the "troubles", whether or not you agree with me i really don't care its the opinion of a soldiers wife and mother. My one and only comment on this subject.

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Col, I did you a disservice by not continuing to completely read your posts. I have read them, and digested them, but I'm afraid I still disagree over many varied points.

As I said, we're all too entrenched in our views now, and although you put forward some good variations on ideals, I'm still deep blue to your deep red, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's what makes the English a great race.

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I am sure we have all heard enough on this subject I never wished to hijack this thread I came on because my grandfather was killed in 1918  He is not on any war memorial here but thanks to help I received from this site hopefully he will be on the new one when it is finished  I am passionate about free speech so i will leave dj360 to live in the liberal left wonderland he seems to inhabit  My final word talk to anyone about immigration and they talk in hushed voices knowing the hounds of hell will descend upon them screaming racist thats how political correctness works I thank you for your indulgence and let you get back to the original thread to all the brave lads who gave their all but i fear they would wonder how we let England get into the state its in today  meeowed

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Thanks to all who have joined in with this discussion politely and without any 'Ad Hom'    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

Just a reminder that it was not me who introduced a political discussion to this thread.  Careful readers will see where it came from. I just responded. However.  Maybe I should have picked up on the point and opended a new thread to discuss it.  We all live and learn.

 

This is definitely the last 'political' response I'm making in this thread.( Yes.. I know.. I've said it before....  ;) )  I have been allowed to say my piece on a range of issues raised by others and I regard that as progress for this site. 

 

And of course others who wish to have had their say.

 

There are many on here who I disagree with very strongly and vice-versa.  I've met most, and all are fine people.  I think no less of them now and hope they feel the same about me.

 

Observation.  'Strong Leadership' is not automatically a good thing.  I won't say more because that would lead me to fall foul of 'Godwin's Law'  ( Google it......    :) )

 

Final Observation.  No need for this. 

Quote

so i will leave dj360 to live in the liberal left wonderland he seems to inhabit 

 

Meeowd, you have expressed support for a number of very right wing, proven racist organisations and  political theories which would give me ample ammunition for name calling and 'Ad Hom'  I have not done so.

 

Back on topic.  I have a small mumber of  original World War 1 documents and photos.  I think I've posted some before. Others not.  I'll try to post them later.

 

Col

 

 

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Are all things connected?..

On another thread i mentioned Walker Walton & Hanson.titleww1.jpgHave a look at the WW1 Roll of Honour for Harold Walton...such a sad story.

The Beeston History Site is a great source.

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Lots of stuff on the telly just now about commemorations of the Battle of Amiens.  Scenes from Amiens cathedral.

 

I spent a week in Amiens with the kids when they were young.  Took them out to see their Mum who was studying there for her French Degree.

 

The cathedral is a phenomenal building and filled with plaques and memorials to allied forces from all countries.  Well worth a look if you are in that neck of Les Bois.  :)

 

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1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

 

 

 

 

The cathedral is a phenomenal building and filled with plaques and memorials to allied forces from all countries.  Well worth a look if you are in that neck of Les Bois.  :)

 

We stayed in Amiens 3 years ago, a very nice town and as Col says, a magnificent cathedral.  The night we were there they had a ‘Son et Lumiere’ at the cathedral.

0_E676_C09-01_AA-445_A-92_A3-4_C9_ECB5_CB1169_ED7-2800-4_DC5-_BA84-8969_E03_F176

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Went in the cathedral the first time I stayed there about twelve years ago.

Absolutely stunning, and breathtaking ! 

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On 6 August 2018 at 12:59 PM, DJ360 said:

Thanks to all who have joined in with this discussion politely and without any 'Ad Hom'    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

Observation.  'Strong Leadership' is not automatically a good thing.  I won't say more because that would lead me to fall foul of 'Godwin's Law'  ( Google it......    :) )

 

Col

 

 

DJ360

I do enjoy reading your posts which are inteligent and well reasoned and  even if I don't always agree they have encouraged me look at some of my political beliefs from a different perspective and actually review my previous opinion. I respect you greatly for that. 

However I have to say that making a post with links to Wikipedia and asking us to 'google it' in the manner you did above extremely patronising. Your clearly a bright chap. No need to rub it in.

I'm sure Hitler wouldn't have done such a thing.

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I do agree about clicking links & getting your info from wiki etc, get yourselves out & about & see for yourself, open your eyes. 

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Don't need the Guardian or 'pedia...it is all happening. My posts are my opinions...and based on my thoughts..ever been to.. or watched a 

Property Auction...mainly Asian or Middle Eastern buying...they pool family money ..it's a cultural thing..and the 'elder' is the banker.

I was reluctant quite often to give my Mam £25  a week board...never mind handing over a full pay packet to Gramps!..In turn ...a huge pile of money is available to buy/ speculate on the properties market...next time' Homes Under The Hammer' is on and it's south of Gateshead..hit the pause button. Thankfully i will be compost before the madness really kicks in!

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3 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

DJ360

I do enjoy reading your posts which are inteligent and well reasoned and  even if I don't always agree they have encouraged me look at some of my political beliefs from a different perspective and actually review my previous opinion. I respect you greatly for that. 

However I have to say that making a post with links to Wikipedia and asking us to 'google it' in the manner you did above extremely patronising. Your clearly a bright chap. No need to rub it in.

I'm sure Hitler wouldn't have done such a thing.

 

 

Let'savagoo, many thanks for the compliment!

 

I make no excuses for the Wiki and other links.  I was always taught to 'reference' my arguments whilst in school and at uni.  It's a way of demonstrating that there is some sort of evidence to support my opinions, or just a way of pointing those interested to further information.  That is subtly different to just 'Googling' for ideas and then plagiarising them, or copying and pasting great tracts. Perhaps a good thing we aren't discussing a lot of Psychology.  As I recall the convention was that practically every sentence had to be referenced to some source or other... in the text.. in brackets.. Author and Date as I recall.   ( Col 2018)    :) 

 

 

Re: The Godwin's Law reference.  I did think for a moment whether people would generally know Godwin's, or whether to explain it. I chose to say 'Google it' and I see now that it did come across as a bit patronising.  My apologies.  Lesson learned.

 

Col

 

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6 hours ago, LizzieM said:

We stayed in Amiens 3 years ago, a very nice town and as Col says, a magnificent cathedral.  The night we were there they had a ‘Son et Lumiere’ at the cathedral.

0_E676_C09-01_AA-445_A-92_A3-4_C9_ECB5_CB1169_ED7-2800-4_DC5-_BA84-8969_E03_F176

 

Lovely pics Lizzie.  Is it my memeory playing up, or is there a little maze just in front of the cathedral on the right?

 

Col

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I have to say Col I thought the Ad Hom link was a bit patronising but chose not to comment. 

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I'm sure you don't need Ad Hom explained Brew... and you don't engage in it as you debate properly and politely.   However, a few here clearly do.

 

I have said a number of times that however much I disagree with people, I try to 'bat the ball.. not the man'.  A number of posts in the last couple of days indicate that some people disagree.

 

Col

 

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I'm sure I've posted this before, but at least it's on topic  ;)

 

Grandad Jack. MM. Aged 17 1915.  Some people ask why he has a 'swagger stick', but I think it's actually a riding crop. 

 

He was a Driver in the Royal Field Artillery driving a team of horses pulling a gun.  I think there was a lot more to it than that, including  cae of the horses, and tack,

moving ammunition and other supplies and no doubt weilding a rifle and bayonet if necessary.  He didn't win his MM for nothing.

 

21456307302_7c6a459a19_c.jpg

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Do you have the citation for his MM Col? It would make interesting reading.

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Sadly no .  I'm not sure anyone has.  I did some digging and it seems that only one copy of the Citation was issued and was not replaceable.  Also, there was no print of the Citation in the London Gazette, as was the case with the Miitary Cross, for officers. 

 

Also, I can't find his notice in the London Gazette, despite having the date. (It's mentioned in his discharge papers.)

 

My cousins have his medals, but I have his bar of ribbons and his discharge papers.  Think I've said before that he told me he got it for 'Gewin wiyaart me dinner'.  I have some memory of being told it was for his actions after his crew was hit by 'incoming'.  Apparently he saw to the casualties, got the horses to safety and then returned to the gun and kept up a rate of fire single handedly.  That would be very much in line with the man I knew.  A tremendous sense of duty.

 

Col

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Reverse of the photo above.  Gertrude Mary Munson went to Australia and died there around the 1980s.  She was actually the daughter of Jack's Dad's second wife from a previous relationship.

 

21357173092_ebd274a621_c.jpg

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