Is this grave enquiry fair?


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I have posted about this same issue some time ago but got no further.

I would like to trace the grave of my Great Aunt, Gertrude Jordon who died in 1917 and was buried in the General cemetery, Canning Circus. Her husband Arthur Jordon (who remarried but was buried with her when he died in 1935).

I have the all the plot details and approached the Council dept based at Wilford Hill a couple of years ago who were no help whatsoever. 

However yesterday I had another go at them as I happened to be passing. In a nutshell they said they had a plan but it was rubbish but I could look at it but when I asked to see it they told me it would be a waste of time as a mere mortal would not be able to understand it and seemed reluctant to the point of I didn't get to see it and said my best bet was to look on https://www.deceasedonline.com. 

The Nottingham council burials website also directs you there but it's all chargeable to download a copy of the register etc. The charge is not excessive. They also told me that for £79.99 they can send their 'expert' to the cemetery who will find the grave and mark it with a wooden stake and take digital photos of the area so I can then go myself. Presumably he's not a mere mortal but a map God although there is no guarantee of success nor could I meet and go with him. 

I could understand a charge if someone has to physically retrieve a record and copy same but charging for a download I search myself seems unreasonable and why I can't see the records that the 'expert' can access seems a total rip off. 

Surely these should be freely available public records or is it me. The same department wanted £140 to dig a tiny hole to put my mums ashes in a family plot so I'm a bit peeved with them anyway.

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I made a similar enquiry in Central Library Angel Row. I was told that if I couldn't find it from the map they supplied to me FOC there was someone who could meet me at General Cemetery and show me where it was. No mention of money. It may depend who you speak to at Central Library.

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I don't understand this. Admittedly, it was many years ago, but when I wrote asking for details of burials in various cemeteries, I received a reply, by return, stating the plot number which then enabled me to find the graves. This was before the advent of computers and things did seem to be simpler then.

 

Nottinghamshire Archives also held cemetery information on microfiche which took a bit of trawling through but proved informative.

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There used to be a department in Woodthorpe Grange in Woodthorpe Park and they had details of municipal graves. It was some years ago but they must still be somewhere. They gave me details of a plot number and    someone working at the General cemetery helped me to find it when I visited.

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I wanted to find my dad's grave at Bulwell Northern cemetery, I asked a worker there & after I quoted the plot number, he took me straight to the grave.

Re council charges, you seem to forget some one has to fund te tram.

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Most of these cemeteries used to have a sexton living at the lodge or a cottage in the grounds. This person would reply to enquiries and provide the details required, presumably from hand-written record books. Due to cut backs, this service is no more, I suppose.

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Before my Dad passed away he told me that there was a family grave at Wilford Hill, he was just trying to tell me that he wanted to be put in there, without actually saying it.   He didn’t know where the plot was and all I gleaned from him was that his Dad and 2 brothers were buried there in 1938, 1942 and 1954, and that there was room for one more.  I went to the office at WH gate and gave them the scant info I had.  Within minutes the lady in the office came up with the plot number, roughly where it was situated and the full names and dates of burial of the deceased. She said they would get the grave marked for us if we’d like to go back a few days later.  Great service.  We went up there again and found the marker, there had never been a gravestone (but there is now my Dad’s in there)   My brother now ‘owns’ the grave, since somebody had to give permission for it to be opened up for Dad’s burial.

 

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2 hours ago, philmayfield said:

It appears to be available on the site ‘Deceased on Line’. I’ve just checked a great grandfather and he was there. There are fees payable for more detailed information.

I've just been checking my records and I got a grave map for the General Cemetery from Development and Environmental Services Hemshill Lane Bulwell. 01159153245 I have no date for this.

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5 hours ago, catfan said:

Usually the holder of the grave "Deeds" I believe Lizzie.

Exactly Catfan.  Lymns sorted it for us, not sure if/or how much this procedure cost but it didn’t take any effort on our part.   

Not sure when Wilford Hill cemetery was first in use but all the graves around the immediate area of our family plot were first used in 1937/1938.  The majority looking a bit tired, broken and sinking now unfortunately. 

 

 

 

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I think part of the problem is that the General aka Canning Circus cemetery is unused and has been so for a long time. It's in a terrible state, overgrown and with homeless sleeping in tents and needles and booze bottles lying around. I don't think it's had any attention for years. Wilford Hill is used and therefore frequently maintained. I don't think I've ever been without seeing someone working in the grounds. I asked at the library re a map and they claim not to have one. 

Re the grave being in date order Jill. Fair point although my relative is in a plot above 2 strangers and then her husband popped on top some 20 years later. I can only assume she went in a 'second hand' grave. I don't know the date of the 'strangers' burial. Hope they get on with each other.

 

Philmayfield. Do you have a map for the General cemetery. Are we talking of the same one aka Canning Circus?  If I gave you the plot/grave numbers could you see if they are marked please. Any clue would be a step further.

 

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I’m sorry, I only have an outline map of the General Cemetery with an indication of the position of the grave I was looking for. The information came from the department in Bulwell, the cemetery I imagine, where the records were held. I believe I went to the Parks and and cemeteries dept. which was at Woodthorpe Grange at the time and they told me who to contact. I’ll check and p.m you if I can find more info. from my records.

3 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

I think part of the problem is that the General aka Canning Circus cemetery is unused and has been so for a long time. It's in a terrible state, overgrown and with homeless sleeping in tents and needles and booze bottles lying around. I don't think it's had any attention for years. Wilford Hill is used and therefore frequently maintained. I don't think I've ever been without seeing someone working in the grounds. I asked at the library re a map and they claim not to have one. 

Re the grave being in date order Jill. Fair point although my relative is in a plot above 2 strangers and then her husband popped on top some 20 years later. I can only assume she went in a 'second hand' grave. I don't know the date of the 'strangers' burial. Hope they get on with each other.

 

Philmayfield. Do you have a map for the General cemetery. Are we talking of the same one aka Canning Circus?  If I gave you the plot/grave numbers could you see if they are marked please. Any clue would be a step further.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

I’m sorry, I only have an outline map of the General Cemetery with an indication of the position of the grave I was looking for. The information came from the department in Bulwell, the cemetery I imagine, where the records were held. I believe I went to the Parks and and cemeteries dept. which was at Woodthorpe Grange at the time and they told me who to contact. I’ll check and p.m you if I can find more info. from my records.

 

It would appear that the cemeteries, including the closed ones, are now managed from Wilford Hill. 0115 876 1922. Hope this helps.

Phil

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Great thread, this is what Nottstalgia is about, plenty of memories for people and information being passed on for the benefit of others

 

Rog

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  • 1 month later...

They have big maps of the graves at the General Cemetery in the Nottingham Archives. Very nice helpful staff there. Also they have the burial records. All access is free but it is a good idea to book. There are also burial records there for the Rock Cemetery.

In 1988 I wanted to find my grandmother's grave. She was buried at the General Cemetery in 1917 when my dad was a very young child. So sad.  I had the grave certificate with  the number and details on. A council employee met me and showed me a paper map and found the grave number. We walked down to where the grave was. There was no grave stone. I guess it was probably a wooden cross put there at the time. The man then explained to me that the cemetery fell into disrepair and many records were lost. He had met people looking for graves and found that the grave they wanted to find was under a tarmac path! He was a very pleasant helpful man.  When I made that visit I drove in through the archway in the building at Canning Circus and down to a little car park. I guess you cannot do that now. I had phoned the council beforehand to make an appointment with their member of staff. There was no charge.

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Interestingly in Adelaide when you are buried in one of the cemeteries operated by the Adelaide Cemetery Authorities you get interment rights for 50 or 99 years depending on what you pay for. These rights can be renewed at any time during the period for a minimum of 5 years.

At the end of the period the cemeteries have to make all reasonable steps to contact relatives. After two years without renewal the remains are dug up and put in an ossuary box and reinterred at a greater depth in the same grave plot. The grave is then reused for someone else. Apparently should the rights not be renewed the family if known can reclaim the monument.

So if you are buried in one of these plots it may not be "rest in peace" as they may dig you up and reinter you after your lease is up.

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11 hours ago, BilboroughShirley said:

When I made that visit I drove in through the archway in the building at Canning Circus and down to a little car park. I guess you cannot do that now. I

 

2 hours ago, The Pianoman said:

The car park is still there. Whether you are allowed to use it still is a different matter.

 

And you'd probably have to manoeuvre your way through syringes, and people looking at you in a funny way.

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It is so sad when these places are not respected. My Mum was cremated and her ashes buried in the garden of remembrance at the Church in West Yorkshire where she was baptised and married. Her name is in the book of remembrance. It is an active Church and well cared for. Her friend told us that she looked over the wall and knew my Mum was safe there.

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