Politics

[DJ360 6,721]

Just thought I'd start this thread to state my own view on discussing 'politics'.. since it seems to be causing a few ripples again.  I'm not using this to push my views on politics, but my views on the discussion of politics.

 

I actually like discussing politics and I do so every day on my other favourite site here:   www.pinkfishmedia.net

 

It rarely gets out of hand and anyone 'trolling' or introducing racism etc., will be very quickly closed down. The quality of political discussion on PinkfishMedia is the highest I have ever encountered on any site, with robust views from people of all 'stripes', gettng a hearing, because they are presented as reasoned arguments and backed with evidence.

 

However, there have been a few political comments flying about on here recently. Some I agree with in principle, some I disagree with. Many more are just 'opinion' and would not stand up to any serious scrutiny.

 

However, there are a few on here who are seemingly incapable of grasping that opinion is not necessarily fact.. and 'just my opinion' is no defence when you are  either deliberately or naively spreading lies, misinformation or negative stereotypes which you cannot support with evidence. 

 

Stereotypes are discriminatory and innaccurate by definition. Fact is not fact unless backed by evidence.  For what it's worth, a lot of current political debate on all sides in the UK is tainted by lies, half truths, press and media interference, false reporting, failure of media to properly analyse claims and to properly question/challenge politicians etc.

 

For all these reasons, just throwing in a political comment without being able to support it with any evidence, or at least a plausible argument, is bound to lead to trouble.  Add to this that even the definition of what is 'political' seems to escape some here too.  It doesn't have to be party political to be political.

 

I've had a couple of sensible debates here recently,  but sadly some very active members here just don't get it.  They want to repeat their prejudices unchallenged.  That is not for me, so I no longer even try to have sensible discussions around politics. Unfortunately that still leaves the opportunity for the bigoted and ignorant to make sweeping statements.  Since most of us have learned not to get into political 'fights', such statements often end up unchallenged, but remain visible and IMHO represent a taint on the site.

 

Example:  I could say 'This country is ruined'

 

What does that mean?  Ruined compared to what?  When was it better than now? How was it better?  What date should we go back to and freeze change?

 

Example:  I could say 'There's too much immigration.'

 

What does that mean?  Too many 'brown people'?  'Too many EU workers?'  'Too many asylum seekers'?, too many 'Illegals'.  How many is too many?  How do we fill vacancies in the NHS and Social Care?

 

I could say.  Too many 'Benefits Scroungers'.  Again.. what does that mean?  Just trotting out 'anecdotal' evidence on the lines of 'There's an unemployed bloke down our street, never worked a day in his life, got 57 kids, drives a Rolls Royce to the pub every night', doesn't cut it for me.  What about the disabled, the people with learning difficulties, the 'working poor' etc.. You don't hear about them.

 

Just to conclude.  There's a no politics rule here.  I'd prefer it wasn't so, but I understand why it is.  Can we please stop throwing in little provacative comments?  We know what will happen.  They either stand unchallenged, or they cause arguments. Neither outcome is helpful.

[catfan 14,793]

But just who is telling the truth DJ, The BBC,the press ? Who knows.

[DJ360 6,721]

For the purposes of posting here, it seems to me that the only real issue is whether what each of us posts doesn't confuse opinion and fact.  Where we get our facts from is up to us, but requires a bit of care and an ability to see past propaganda and to question both our own and other's assumptions.  It's also important to qualify statements and to offer a 'source' for anything 'statistical'.

 

Example.  I don't think It's any secret that immigration is a hot topic.  Yet (as many predicted) numbers of EU workers are declining and this is having an effect on recruitment in certain UK employment sectors. This is causing an increase in numbers from non EU countries. ( This is a Govt. statistic).  Of course the need to recruit from abroad could also be interpreted as a failure of our own education and training systems, or a failure to pay a living wage.

I'm passing no judgement either way here, simply highlighting the point that "there's too many of 'em' comin' 'ere' " is a simplistic and unhelpful statement about a complex situation.

 

We can be pretty sure that any sweeping generalisation will be wrong.

 

Certain newspapers are well known for twisting, exaggerating or just plain inventing 'facts'.

 

In my view. the BBC lately is failing to properly challenge assertions made by politicians of all stripes.  The BBC is also rather too fond of giving platforms to certain individuals from the major parties who are very vocal, but who represent nobody but themselves.

 

What I'm trying to get at is this.  We are all entitled to our personal political objectives leading to the sort of society we would like to live in. But I believe we have a responsibility to be very certain of our 'facts' before posting, or at least to present things as ideas for discussion to try to get views from all sides.

 

[plantfit 7,580]

A very sensible and well thought out topic with explanation and reason Col, thanks for posting

 

Rog