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1 hour ago, Stavertongirl said:

I would just say that there are other “experts” who totally disagree with the statements she has made and it has even been said she should resign. 

 

By whom, which 'experts'? It's almost a cliche that for every expert there is an equal and opposite. 

My post was not simply a reply to you SG, there are multiple threads.

I'm not criticising you personally,  your posts are always well written, well  thought out, relevant and welcome.

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Margie is right. I keep popping in to see how you all are. Thankyou all so much for your posts.   I'm afraid we are not very well the pair of us. This must be the 'Long Covid' that we hear a

I really wish that more people were afraid. For their own safety.    I don't think anyone who hasn't witnessed in reality a person down on their hands and knees gasping  with a chest full of

Am in total dismay at the human race. It's becoming more like Mad Max at the moment.        This me me society we have created cares only about themselves: I'm alright Jack, the rest of you can f

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As an old (very) NHS worker I think the NHS has reacted powerfully to this pandemic, as well as any organisation could. I dont think the politicians have lied about anything, maybe not told the whole truth, but in general I think that by the time we all saw this coming it was already on top of us. 

 

The graphs every day are informative. Basically its reducing in London but there is a very gradual increase for other parts of the country, E mids and North east for instance. We have slowed the virus down, but for us in our areas, the next two weeks are going to be crucial. 

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Granddaughter finished work early at the funeral firm this afternoon - they had run out of coffins!

 

Heard today that Staffordshire County Showground (just up the road) is being prepared to operate as a morgue! 

 

Wish I had some good news....

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On 4/21/2020 at 7:10 PM, Cliff Ton said:

Until there has been a period of a few months with no new outbreaks, many people will be thinking "is it really safe now ?"

 

I'd say sensible people will think that way Kev.. but the reality seems to be that we still have idiots who are ignoring all the rules and carrying on as if nothing is happening. While their attitude persists, outbreaks will continue until the population are all immune, or dead.

 

 

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I thought Harries was Ok for a while.. but she has fallen in my estimation recently. 

 

There are three possible answers to any question:

 

1.  "The answer to your question is this, because this.."

2. " I/We don't know"

3. " Well what is really important here is that what you should actually be asking me is how many widgets we have delivered compared to how many you think we should have delivered or how many the Hospitals actually say we have delivered although we have actually delivered millions. or even zillions.. so yes.. it's challenging.. but we are meeting that challenge and doing everything humanly possible to get the PPE out to the hospitals". 

"Yes Minister.. but have you actually delivered the PPE and if so.. why are some hospitals still claiming a shortage?". 

"Well what is really important here is that what you should actually be asking me is how many widgets we have delivered compared to how many you think we should have delivered or how many the Hospitals actually say we have delivered although we have actually delivered millions. or even zillions.. so yes.. it's challenging.. but we are meeting that challenge and doing everything humanly possible to get the PPE out to the hospitals."

 

Spot the bullshit answer above.

 

And yes.. I do think that a bit of humility.. some recognition and admission of mistakes.. would go a long way to placate a very concerned public.

 

We really do need to remember that the current bunch of politicians trying to run this show are very much second rate, inexperienced people, who only got  into post because they weren't sacked by Johnson when he was purging his party of all opposition to himself over Brexit.  They are a pretty hopeless lot.

 

 

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I may have misunderstood you here in that it seems you have  Dr Harries holding a ministerial office. She doesn't and I'm reading of her being praised for her being “calm, collected and coolheaded”. Another commentator claimed she was ‘inspired’ by the “dignified” medical officer.

 

I'm not sure (I don't recognise it), if your post is verbatim or your interpretation of a question/answer scenario. I must say if you made it up it's an excellent piece of political gobbledegook speak which both parties could easily claim it as theirs. The same applies if it's accurate.

 

Like you I don't hold the present government in the highest regard but second rate is a bit harsh, second tier maybe. Inexperienced yes, Johnson's sycophants yes but they are our elected members of parliament and I believe doing the best they can. Those handling the crisis must number in single figures, the rank and file members have almost no say in how things are done and can only hold the party line.

 

You would like a little humility? when you judged Dr Harries to be apologetic you used a very disparaging tone so  you can hardly blame a speaker for not wanting to give the opposition more ammunition.

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While applauding outside this is the second week that I have noticed a flock of birds swirling around, presumably spooked by the noise!  Are they starlings?

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20 hours ago, Brew said:

I may have misunderstood you here in that it seems you have  Dr Harries holding a ministerial office.

 

You misunderstood.  I'm well aware of her status. However, I was very struck earlier on when she clearly signalled  (possibly somewhat grudging) agreement with the short-lived and disastrous abandonment of testing and, effectively a 'herd immunity' approach. I wonder if we'll ever know how much influence the execrable Cummings had on that.

21 hours ago, Brew said:

I'm not sure (I don't recognise it), if your post is verbatim or your interpretation of a question/answer scenario.

 

It's me parodying  a 'politician's answer'.  But I was doing so with serious intent because we have been treated to that sort of evasive rubbish for weeks. That is why I am so angry.  They have stalled, waffled, floundered, misinformed etc.. while thousands died.

 

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom#Government_response

 

Quote

 

Criticism of the Government's response

Controversy over apparent errors that the Government had made continued. For example, Dr. Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet told BBC's Question Time that "We knew in the last week of January that this was coming. The message from China was absolutely clear that a new virus with pandemic potential was hitting cities. ... We knew that 11 weeks ago and then we wasted February when we could have acted."[86] Anthony Costello, a former WHO director, also criticised the Government's pandemic response, telling The Telegraph:

We should have introduced the lockdown two or three weeks earlier but we didn’t. It should be combined with testing, tracing and digital apps that have been used so successfully in South Korea.... It is a total mess and we have been wrong every stage of the way. We have to change our policy and at the moment I don’t hear anything to suggest we are. They keep talking about flattening the curve which implies they are seeking herd immunity but what we should have done is crushed the epidemic and then keep it down.[87]

 

Sir David King, the former Chief Scientific Advisor, has said: "We didn't manage this until too late and every day's delay has resulted in further deaths."[88]

Criticisms from within the Government have been largely anonymous. For example, on 16 April, while the Prime Minister was still recuperating, The Telegraph quoted a member of the Cabinet as saying:

There’s no exit plan at the moment because they don’t want to do anything without the boss’s say so. … We didn’t want to go down this route in the first place – public and media pressure pushed the lockdown, we went with the science. The lockdown will only start coming loose when the public wants it to – not ministers.”[89]

On 20 April, a No.10 adviser was quoted by The Times as saying: "Almost every plan we had was not activated in February. Almost every government department has failed to properly implement their own pandemic plans. … It was a massive spider's web of failing." The same article said that Boris Johnson did not attend any of the five coronavirus COBR meetings that were held in January and February.[90] On The Andrew Marr Show, Michael Gove stated that it was normal for prime ministers to be absent, and that the point of the meetings means that they are normally chaired by the relevant department head, who then reports to the Prime Minister. The Guardian said that the meetings are normally chaired by the Prime Minister during a time of crisis.[91]


 

 

21 hours ago, Brew said:

You would like a little humility? when you judged Dr Harries to be apologetic you used a very disparaging tone so  you can hardly blame a speaker for not wanting to give the opposition more ammunition.

 

No.  I called her 'an apologist', which is very far from calling her 'apologetic'. Whether she was brow beaten, or whether she actually agreed, she delivered the message on the abandonement of testing and effectively 'letting the virus loose'.

My immediate reaction to that was on a very personal level.  It immediately struck me that people like me would now be dependent upon others as we sheilded ourselves from the virus for at the very least months.

It follows that your comment on my demand for a little humility falls.  Many experts, the W.H.O. and the bulk of NHS staff know that this Govt. got it badly wrong at several points and have also been frankly pathetic in relation to organising and managing both PPE and testing.

 

Hancock has been very variable over this.  He's flipped from looking quite pathetic and just waffling ineffectively, to other times when he appeared to 'step up'.

Today he finally outlined what sounds like a plan for action involving testing and contact tracing, as a way of managing the outbreak once it is under control.

He actually sounded plausible for once.. but he still has to deliver.

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Meanwhile..  Loppy, if I were you I'd keep my head down for the forseeable.  It seems your state governor has decided to allow many businesses to 'open up' in the next day or so. These to include Hairdressers, Tattoo Parlours, assorted 'beauty parlours' etc. Even that moron Trump has expressed his displeasure.

 

Your leaders seem determined to sacrifice many of you on the altar of the Great God Profit.  Stay safe.

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On 4/22/2020 at 12:47 PM, Stavertongirl said:

Let’s hope the drug trial starting on Thursday is a success. Does anyone know how they conduct these, do you get vaccinated (my iPad changed this to fascinated) and then get exposed to the virus somehow?

 

Hi Stav.

As I understand it vaccines in general work by  using either a 'killed' virus, or some component of it.. which cannot cause the disease, to provoke the body into producing antibodies which will protect you if you encounter the live virus.

Again... as I understand it... the new UK trial involves taking the 'spikey' bits from the CV and adding them to a harmless virus, which is then injected.  The body will hopefully learn to recognise the 'spikey bit' and develop antibodies to it, which will hopefully stop the actual virus from infecting you.

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58 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

He actually sounded plausible for once.. but he still has to deliver

 

I makes me smile that you thought him plausible - I thought the opposite! as you say he still has to deliver but I will admit a lot of it is beyond his control...

 

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8 hours ago, DJ360 said:

 

Hi Stav.

As I understand it vaccines in general work by  using either a 'killed' virus, or some component of it.. which cannot cause the disease, to provoke the body into producing antibodies which will protect you if you encounter the live virus.

Again... as I understand it... the new UK trial involves taking the 'spikey' bits from the CV and adding them to a harmless virus, which is then injected.  The body will hopefully learn to recognise the 'spikey bit' and develop antibodies to it, which will hopefully stop the actual virus from infecting you.

 

 But after the 'test' vaccination, the volunteer/guinea pigs will have to be exposed to the actual virus to see if it has worked!!

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No the participents in the trial are not being deliberately exposed.

They are carrying on as they would normally otherwise it doesn't represent the normal conditons the population are in.

The only difference is they are being monitored to check the vaccine itself is having no ill effects on them.

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Surely the volunteers will be checked to see if they have developed antibodies?

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Don’t know if I am being a bit dense but if there isn’t a reliable antibody test and they aren’t exposed to the disease how do they know the vaccination has worked?

 

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My mum is in a care home and it's been found that some of the residents have symptoms and some have been rushed to hospital. On Monday all the residents and staff were tested by swabs. Yesterday it was confirmed that mum has the virus but no symptoms.

They knew the results on Tuesday night but until midday Wednesday the results weren't published in the Daily bulletin. Plenty of phone calls between those in the know and likewise said the home would get in touch with the families during the day. At the end we were so uptight of waiting for a call , we rang at 3 pm and got the answer we weren't expecting. My mum is deaf ( the home has lost her hearing aids) and doesn't speak a word of Italian. You can imagine how isolated she feels. I've not seen her since Christmas Day. We asked if we could do a video call if one of the nurses could ring us when she was near mum. This she did, mum was very bewildered but she looked well thank goodness. We send her letters still explaining what is happening but don't think she actually has understood it all. When we ring the home they say she is the strongest of all residents. She will be 98 in May. She's a very determined lady and I'm sure she is waiting for her telegram from the queen.

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S-G,

They aren't intentionally exposed, given the unpredictable nature of the virus that would be dangerous,  but some will get exposure just as thousands are at the moment despite the lockdown.

So if after the trial, 6 months I believe, none of those vaccinated get symptoms or get ill but some of the equal numbered control group do, then it's probably considered success.

 

They've mentioned that normally they do multiple tests after each other with variations in vaccine strength and content, but due to the urgency they're doing them all side by side.

Oxford have managed to upscale production for the test, they've already got manufactures making preparations to upscale to millions of doses, something which wouldn't normally happen at this stage.

If the initial trial works then manufacturers will start to upscale to hundreds of millions.

 

Nonna,

Don't forget to apply for the Message (telegrams finished years ago) it's not automatic.

https://www.gov.uk/get-birthday-anniversary-message-from-queen

 

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Nonna,  I sincerely hope your Mum remains 'asymptomatic'. 

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22 hours ago, Brew said:

I makes me smile that you thought him plausible - I thought the opposite! as you say he still has to deliver but I will admit a lot of it is beyond his control...

 

 

Brew, 'plausible' is one of those words which has many senses.

 

 

Quote

 

plau•si•ble plô′zə-bəl

  • adj.
    Seemingly or apparently valid, likely, or acceptable; credible.
  • adj.
    Persuasive or ingratiating, especially in an effort to deceive.
  •  
    Deserving applause or approval; meritorious; praiseworthy; commendable.
  •  


 

 
The closest one to my intention is the first, which I've made bold.  He actually discussed a plan for testing and tracing etc. which made sense to me.. but of course still has to be delivered.
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Brenda, I do hope that things remain OK with your mother. I just couldn't imagine what it must be like for her at the moment, not being able to communicate with anyone must be absolutely devastating, especially in her condition.

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I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be any comments here on the idiot Trump's cure for the virus https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177 (or have I just missed them?)

No need for all of this expensive research, everything is already waiting on the supermarket shelves - until, of course, the panic buyers get there. I understand that there have been numerous enquiries to the authorities across the US regarding the recommended dose.

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1 hour ago, jonab said:

I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be any comments here on the idiot Trump's cure for the virus https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177 

 

I don't know what's worse; him saying it or the fact that there are people over there who are stupid enough to believe him.

 

It's the same place where you can find people like this.

vCbpYvF.jpg

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