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Margie is right. I keep popping in to see how you all are. Thankyou all so much for your posts.   I'm afraid we are not very well the pair of us. This must be the 'Long Covid' that we hear a

I really wish that more people were afraid. For their own safety.    I don't think anyone who hasn't witnessed in reality a person down on their hands and knees gasping  with a chest full of

Am in total dismay at the human race. It's becoming more like Mad Max at the moment.        This me me society we have created cares only about themselves: I'm alright Jack, the rest of you can f

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Based on the above then, the solution is simple,

Round up everyone with a pre-existing condition, including those that have one and aren't aware of it, shoot them all and bury them then the remainder of the 67 million can get on with their lives without all the inconvenience which MAY be in place for the next 6 months or more.

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My son has just told me that 97% of deaths from Covid in the UK are of people aged OVER 90.  He says he got the info from the NHS website.  I’ve not looked but I can believe that fact. 

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I haven't gone into this issue much so I'm not trolling for an argument.  I am not saying the virus is a hoax or anything like that.  My own observation is that the mainstream media is going hysterical about it for whatever purpose.  Mrs. L watches the news every night, and is frightened by it.   I don't, I prefer to read a variety of online sources.  Each night all I hear is CV this and CV that.  The forecast was for 2 million to die in the US.  Recently we hit two hundred thousand.   Out of a population of 350 million.  That is tragic and I'm not trying to minimize it, but a bad 'flu season will do that and it is turning out that many died WITH CV rather than of it.  I have never, even once, heard them tell of folks who have survived it.  Neither have I heard mention of something like 1400 doctors in Belgium who are saying it is overblown.  Something is not adding up here.

I am of an age considered high risk, but I refuse to live my life being scared by the idiot box.  If it eventually gets me, too bad!  Summat will one day.  The seeming relish on the faces of the talking heads as they recount today's deaths is nauseating.

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There will be a lot of nonsense and quoting of 'facts' and figures depeneding of which flavour of media you prefer. Quoting from different sources, cherry picking numbers and taking things out of context all help to keep us confused and uncertain.

 

UK FACTS:

There are 423,000 infections - 42000 deaths   = 9% approx, skewed towards the weak and elderly. With the same number 423K  and a population of 67M, statistically the odds of contracing the disease is less than 1%.

On the basis of figures like these it all seems like we're worrying without good reason and the chances of catching Covid is miniscule, the odds of dying from it even less.

 

Until we consider the question 'what if'. What if we hadn't had lockdown, what if we didn't wear face coverings, what if we didn't keep our distance, what if we all said 'sod it' and went to the pub as usual? What would the figures look like then?

 

I sugest the measures he advocates abandoning are the reason why the odds are so low - long may they remain so.

 

To imply we should throw the elderly to the kerb smacks of the worst kind of totalitarianism. While they're at why not include those with mental health problems, physically disabled, immigrants, jobless, anyone with a criminal record, jews. blacks and asians...  Hitler did it, why can't we?

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44 minutes ago, loppylugs said:

1400 doctors in Belgium who are saying it is overblown.

 

You have a source for that LL? Sounds a bit like Fox news to me...

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There aren't any definite figures for the total but W.H.O. estimate there could be around 10 million doctors in the World.

The Belgium doctors don't represent much of a percentage of that.

That figure didn't come from W.H.O as they seem only to publish per Country.

 

There was however in 2019 over 301000 registered Doctors in the U.K

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/698278/registered-doctors-united-kingdom-uk-by-age/

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Here's the source Brew.  Hope the link works for you.   Not Fox.  I don't go to Fox much.  Too many ads and then they try to push videos at you.  I prefer to read, I always have.   I realize there are strong opinions on both sides and I try to respect both.  I'm not a doctor..

 

I heard a doctor say the other day,  "wearing a mask is like putting up a chain link fence to keep gnats out of your garden."    Sorry I didn't keep the source for that.  I suspect a lot are under a lot of peer pressure.  Probably even affect their license if they are too vocal.

 

https://www.aier.org/article/open-letter-from-medical-doctors-and-health-professionals-to-all-belgian-authorities-and-all-belgian-media/

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Very interesting article LL, far too much for my little brain to take in though.  Certainly in the beginning, 7 months ago, nobody knew what we were heading into and the World Governments and media have made everyone fearful.  I’m following the guidelines and rules because it’s the law, the only reason I will wear a mask.  

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Same here Lizzie.  I tend to keep a pretty low profile.

One of the things that has bothered me about this is how divisive it has become.  People against governments, families, husbands and wives against each other, we could go on but you know about it.  I'm inclined to think the whole thing, masks social distancing etc, is a deliberate design to divide populations.  We have now lost thousands of jobs and businesses which will not come back.  Real economic collapse could come out of this and the fallout will be worse than the virus itself.  I am not optimistic, to use a phrase, 'We ain't seen nothin' yet.   I sincerely hope I'm wrong.  

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Interesting LL, thanks for that.  It's unusual for doctors to disagree with the WHO both on their projections and in the use of the Trump drug (HCQ) - they recommend it as a cure. The article also claims it is impossible to catch the disease in the open air...?

It seems at odds with many learned articles but I'm not qualified to say which is right.

 

I wrote earlier about the chicken and egg idiom. It applies here as well, was the WHO projected figure a massive overestimate or has the action of governments around the world proved effective in ameliorating the disease? What would situation be like had Covid been allowed to simply run its course?

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The doctor who said a mask is like a chain link fence is being somewhat disingenuous. The mask is primarily to stop infection travelling from an infected person by preventing the spray we all have when we breathe hard or cough/sneeze. True they will not filter the virus it's too small but we do not breathe pure viruses. Masks will filter and dissipate most of the droplets that are the carriers of the virus. Anyone who has worn one will know they become quite moist on the indside from the vapour we breathe out, the outside remains relatively dry.

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56 minutes ago, Brew said:

 

I wrote earlier about the chicken and egg idiom. It applies here as well, was the WHO projected figure a massive overestimate or has the action of governments around the world proved effective in ameliorating the disease? What would situation be like had Covid been allowed to simply run its course?

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The doctor who said a mask is like a chain link fence is being somewhat disingenuous. 

 

To the best of my knowledge I think the virus was allowed to run it's course in Sweden.  As far as I know the outcomes have been pretty much the same as countries that locked down, masked up etc.

 

Concerning the dr's comments.  I think they were pretty tongue in cheek, but it made me smile.

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I hadn't seen anything in depth about Sweden and it's true they are far more relaxed in their approach. Difficult to compare with the UK though. They have a density of 25 people per sq km, the UK has 275 per km. They did take measures to contain the virus but being Swedish they did things differently...  :unsure:

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I think all the restrictions and guidelines are just about trying to slow down the spread  of the virus until there’s an effective vaccine.  
I do agree with Brew’s point about comparison with Sweden not being very helpful because of the differences in population density between there and the UK.  
Here in the fens of East Cambs where much of the area consists of very small towns and much smaller villages, we have very few Covid cases, (but I still follow the current guidelines, cos I’m a good girl, I am!)

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Last night our new cases increased to 1950. In an interview some dr or other maybe virologist said that these numbers are nothing to to worry about as the majority were asymptomatic. But they are still able to pass it on. There's a lot of debate about whether it's worth getting your knickers in a twist or not but what and who do you believe. 

Not being patriotic but Italy (after China ) tried to follow what China was doing and eventually after lots of Yoyo effects did work. Most people didn't enjoy lockdown or even having to adjust their lives because of govt orders. It paid off, but now because the schools are open and people have returned from their holidays things are once again going pear shaped. Other nearby countries are not so lucky and are facing probable lockdown. I for one am glad that our lockdown lasted longer than most and schools waited to open. Businesses were staggered to reopen. There are now 700 schools closed because of covid or whatever you want to call it. We have new legislation but I haven't a clue what it is. I will continue doing what I've been doing for the last 6-7 months. I feel sorry for those who are getting high numbers of new cases, but somethings wrong somewhere, what have we missed and what haven't we yet understood. We obviously can't trust anyone to tell us the truth, if there is a truth. We have to believe in something because if we don't we are just going to give in.

Keep safe everyone.

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2 hours ago, philmayfield said:

Years ago, when I first went to Sweden, I was discussing what they did during the long winter nights. The rather staid businessman told me that they had cocktail evenings where everyone stood around totally stark naked drinking schnapps. Looking at him my mind boggled!

Maybe that's the missing secret of how to keep it under control.  :biggrin:

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Has anyone else been picked ‘randomly’ to take a Covid swab test?  
2 or 3 weeks ago I received a letter from NHS/Imperial College/Dept of Health & Social Care/MORI inviting me to take the test.  I agreed to be involved so they’ve apparently sent the test to me, however I’ve been away for the past 10 days and still am.  I think they want my swabs back before I get home so I won’t be able to do it.  The thing is, this test will only tell them if I’ve GOT Covid.  To me it seems a complete waste of money on their part.  Is it just another way of getting Covid case numbers up to frighten the hell out of us?

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Thing is Lizzie, if you did the test and it proved positive, would they send someone round to offer you treatment, or would they add your name to the list of victims and leave it at that?

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I was picked Lizzie. Took 11 days to get a result. A very expensive way to achieve a statistic that is probably ignored anyway.

My wise old boss of many decades ago gave me some advice. When you have a problem that is expensive or time consuming to rectify and with little advantage to the business, do nothing; BUT BE SEEN TO BE DOING SOMETHING! I didn't necessarily take his advice but I often think about it when seeing some 'initiatives' that take place.

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