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9 hours ago, jonab said:

Aren't we in danger of running off-topic here with discussion on hymns at school?

Surely one of the joys of this forum is the way it drifts and takes diverse directions. It soon comes back to the topic heading so does it matter. I think every thread on here drifts. I’ve recently been told off for quoting now this. The joy is going. 

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Herself has just been to town and met up with a couple of friends. The shops are seemingly empty of hand sanitisers, something that has alarmed her on the basis they must know something she doesn't

She is starting to become quite nervous to the point of refusing to use the tram and the park and ride as she usually does. Keep calm and carry on is not working here I'm afraid. :(

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Don't let it worry you.  I wouldn't take it personal.  Thread drift has always been an issue here.  I've been guilty of it.  It drifts back, I've often learnt from it.  Ie.  I didn't know Nonna meant 'grandma' until I read it on here.

Happens on other sites too.

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Brew take notice of no hand sanitizer and your wife afraid of going on the tram . I think most people are becoming aware that something is looming . Here we never know what's going to happen next it's spread so quickly and now everything is on lockdown but still things have to be put on more serious lock downs. They were saying on news 24 that December 8th it broke out in China. Look how many countries are infected. It's not to be made light of.

Take care and be careful not to be too near to anyone.

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@Brew  there hasn't been any hand sanitisers in the shops or pharmacies round here for a couple of weeks at least.   They are also limiting to 2  the number of handwashes you can buy and Tesco now has no Paracetamol either (or loo rolls).   You'd think some enterprising local pharmacist would make up  his own sanitiser - apparently you need hydrogen peroxide, alcohol over 60% proof, glycerol/glycerine? And some scented stuff...don't know what else....

I heard someone   on TV say that we oldies will need to be 'cocooned'. .... I quite like that word!

 

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My point about going off topic applies on this thread because of the importance of the subject matter. Normally, I don't care about this.

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Point taken Jonah but turn on the tv or radio, bbc news etc etc and you’ll find an abundance of information probably more relevant to specific locations.

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Our flight to Miami has been cancelled, the Americans don’t want us.  I’ve cancelled all the hotel bookings easy enough but American Airlines don’t seem to want to give us a refund so looks like we’ll have to re-book when this menace is over with.  Trouble is I’ve not bought much food in the past week with going away and now there’ll be nothing left in the shops.  We’re ok for bog rolls though. 

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If you really want hand sanitiser, just head to the nearest Polish shop and buy some Spirytus. 100% proof vodka that kills all known germs, but whatever you do, don’t drink it neat or you’ll go blind.

 

Alternatively, just use soap and water.

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Sorry to hear about your holiday Lizzie. Does that mean you lose your flight payment or will it be postponed, or perhaps even have to pay again for another flight?

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13 hours ago, Brew said:

I sympathise with the sentiment Otz but it's a little disingenuous to place the blame with the politicians

In the case of Australia I totally disagree with you Brew. The incompetent clowns that run this county have allowed Chinese owned interests to buy electricity utilities, water pipelines, vast tracts of productive farmlands, large parts of our dairy industry and even leased Darwin Harbour to the Chinese.

They goaded the automotive industry into leaving Australia and when they did they cried "woe is me how could you do this after all the help we have given you".

I know you will say it is market forces but if you look hard you can still find Australian manufactured products and it is as cheap if not cheaper than the imported product and almost always superior quality.

China is playing the long game and the buffoons in government here cannot see it as they only see the next electoral cycle, a maximum of three years.

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All telephone lines to AA were busy, understandably, and they suggested cancelling on-line. Went through the rigmarole of names, ticket numbers etc then get a message saying we’re not allowed a refund.  A friend has had a voucher from BA to re-book during 2020 for their cancelled flight to Cyprus.  Apparently if you go to Cyprus you have to go in quarantine for 2 weeks and they were only booked for a one week holiday!  

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Rockers were pretty cool too..:laugh:

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33 minutes ago, Oztalgian said:

In the case of Australia I totally disagree with you Brew

 

Actually Ozt Australia is not unique in what you describe and Chinese investment is global.

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Yes Chinese investment is global and as I said part of the "long game" the Chinese are playing but I doubt that many other countries are as reliant on China as we are.

Exports - "Rocks and Crops" Australia is China's quarry, Iron ore (unprocessed which we later buy back as steel and processed goods)) gas (at significantly cheaper prices than we can buy it here) coal, both thermal and metallurgical account for AU$79 billion of exports. Agricultural, forestry and fishery products account for a further AU$14 billion

Imports - Manufactured Goods AU$21 billion

As far as trading partners go China is 23%, USA and Japan 9-10% South Korea and GB 4-5%

 

 

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8 hours ago, MargieH said:

I heard someone   on TV say that we oldies will need to be 'cocooned'. .... I quite like that word!

 

Margie, I think that you've hit on the key flaw in the Govt. response to CV. I posted this elsewhere a short while ago:

 

Quote

The current plan relies on younger folk being at least sensible, both to limit/slow general spread.. and to 'protect' the elderly and those with underlying health issues.

There really isn't much evidence of that to be seen and we still have an awful lot of behaviour which might be regarded as a C.V. equivalent of 'Hurricane Parties', except that the likely fatalities probably won't even have had the pleasure of the party.

Net result is that many in my broad age group (65/75).. Me and Mrs Col, my neighbour and his wife who both have Heart problems, another neighbour currently recovering from radical Prostate surgery, another with MS, one over the back fence with COPD, another over the back who's had a triple by-pass, a good friend with Diabetes, a cousin who's had a stroke AND cancer.. and many thousands of others.. are basically left to 'socially distance', 'self isolate', or play 'Chinese Roulette' with our lives everytime we leave the house.

For months.. at least....

The cynicism, lack of action and pure callousness of the present Govt response is nauseating.. yet entirely predictable. It amounts to 'Let's get this over with before the next election'.

Snivelling uncaring self-serving b******* to a man.. and Patel.

Today has not been a good day for me. I've struggled with anxiety all my life so the current shambles is a perfect storm. After gnawing guts, the shakes and rapid heart beat all day, despite trying anything and everything to 'chill'.. I finally resorted to a bit of Diazepam . a whole 2 Mg, followed by an hour of 'relaxation techniques' and some mindless telly... I'm now backing that up with a couple of Brandies and will see what tomorrow brings.

First person to tell me to pull myself together gets a punch in the mouth.
First to tell me I'm being 'irrational'.. gets two. Anxiety IS irrational.

Thanks for reading.

 

Thing is, our Govt. is not trying to manage an epidemic, they are trying to manage what for them is a Political/Economic situation. 

We 'olds' will need to keep ourselves safe.  Nobody else will.

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Just watched Sky news on freeview..

Virgin Airlines want a 7.5 billion bung from the UK government.. says it all...

 

Lightening the mood ...

But think I might be at 61 a little younger than the majority,

.

seemed very sophicated to me.anybody at the seaside play a brilliant stall, in my case it was at Great Yarmouth..

Started with the uplifting horn tune they play at Kentucky Derby I think..not that I have ever been there ..or have any desire to do so!

Consisted of rolling balls into slots..on a pinball style grid..the higher the number the more the horse moved until the finish line when a bell was sounded!

 

Back to reality...why are people obsessed with foreign travel..?

For me..there has always been enough here..other than visiting Egypt in the Eighties..

Take Care everybody..

 

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5 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The cynicism, lack of action and pure callousness of the present Govt response is nauseating.. yet entirely predictable. It amounts to 'Let's get this over with before the next election'.

 

OK Col tell us what you want the government to do that they aren't doing? In the face of a pandemic with no known cure how would you tackle it? 

 

If they imposed a curfew, locked down the country and crippled the economy for some time to come,  you would berate them for overreacting and tell us Labour would have done it better, quicker and cheaper.

It's all well and good shouting "the gubbermint shud do summat" but they are stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea, damned if they do, damned if they don't'

 

The reality is there is NOTHING that will stop this. It's airborne and we can wash and sanitise our hands until they are raw and it won't make one iota of difference other than act as a placebo.

IF turning CV into an excuse for bashing the government and venting your hatred of the Tories makes you feel better than have it mate but really I can't see what else they can do at the moment.

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In case nobody has heard our news, this morning since yesterday we have 2700+ new cases. 7000 people have been fined or worse for disobeying the restrictions we have. ( by traveling overnight by train without authority to get back home to the south where they think it might be safer) Hope they haven't taken the disease with them. They have all reported themselves to the health service ( we hope). All trains have now been blocked. Every day we are getting more scared. Lizzie sorry you are going to miss your holiday but it's for the best. At least you will be safe if you stay in. I know it's hard to think of it now but the idea of contracting cv doesn't appeal to anyone. Please dont let it get to the stage it is here. Do your own things as you think for your own safety and if Boris is telling you that it's ok and U.K. wont get it take no notice , he's a fool that is only worried about his Brexit deal shaming him.

We are getting loads of flash mobs singing national anthems and popular songs to join everyone in trying to give each other courage. Lovely community spirit.

Stay safe everyone

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30 minutes ago, Brew said:

 

OK Col tell us what you want the government to do that they aren't doing? In the face of a pandemic with no known cure how would you tackle it? 

 

If they imposed a curfew, locked down the country and crippled the economy for some time to come,  you would berate them for overreacting and tell us Labour would have done it better, quicker and cheaper.

It's all well and good shouting "the gubbermint shud do summat" but they are stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea, damned if they do, damned if they don't'

 

The reality is there is NOTHING that will stop this. It's airborne and we can wash and sanitise our hands until they are raw and it won't make one iota of difference other than act as a placebo.

IF turning CV into an excuse for bashing the government and venting your hatred of the Tories makes you feel better than have it mate but really I can't see what else they can do at the moment.

 

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1 hour ago, Brew said:

It's all well and good shouting "the gubbermint shud do summat"

Brew as much as I enjoy your debates with Col and you playing the devils advocate and the banter between each other, for you to use the phrase above is a bit below the belt. You and Col are educated people and Col would never use that phrase as written .

PS   Please continue with you debates because personally I think it gives all people alternative perspectives on the different subjects.

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I think that handwashing is much more than a placebo!  I agree that the virus is airborne but people do still tend to put their hand over their mouth when they cough.... it was drummed into us when we were small that it was only polite to do so!   Viruses on hands can very easily be transferred to surfaces - door handles etc where they can be picked up by others' hands, and thence to their faces.  

 

This is is why I believe that frequent handwashing can help slow the spread of CV (+ other viruses and harmful bacteria for that matter!)

 

Not just re CV, But I wish all public toilets were like those in the motorway service stations I've been to, where you walk down the appropriate corridor (NO DOORS)  turn a corner and you are straight into the toilet area.  This is good because after you've been to the loo and have washed your hands, there are no door handles on the way out to pick up someone else's microbes!!   

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57 minutes ago, Brew said:

 

OK Col tell us what you want the government to do that they aren't doing? In the face of a pandemic with no known cure how would you tackle it? 

 

If they imposed a curfew, locked down the country and crippled the economy for some time to come,  you would berate them for overreacting and tell us Labour would have done it better, quicker and cheaper.

It's all well and good shouting "the gubbermint shud do summat" but they are stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea, damned if they do, damned if they don't'

 

The reality is there is NOTHING that will stop this. It's airborne and we can wash and sanitise our hands until they are raw and it won't make one iota of difference other than act as a placebo.

IF turning CV into an excuse for bashing the government and venting your hatred of the Tories makes you feel better than have it mate but really I can't see what else they can do at the moment.

Only wanted to coment  on 'at the moment' incredible naivety..

did the stats pre first cobra..flipped on their head had similar results.

 

I hope that the amount of  'high profile ' cases are accurate.,.seems disproportionate .a few walking  around with this my not be a bad tjhing.

 

 

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Every government on the planet has been wrong-footed by this virus, and their response to it, and peoples reaction to it, will vary according to their individual circumstances. The dilemma is on a personal  level. Just seen the Health Secretary's plan for the over seventies. My mother in law (or she would be if I was married) is 83. She is like all of us at a certain age,  stubborn. She visits her 87 year old husband at the care home up the road most days (where her temperature is taken on arrival) and three times a week its off to the swimming baths. Without these, she would be pretty miserable. 

I am two years off the cut off point, but with heart, thyroid and diabetic conditions, probably need to take heed of the precautions. But not biking to shops and other trips would not help. Aside from the impact on my physical and mental wellbeing, staying in is not much of an option. Home consists of one daughter who works in a primary school, and another who attends the local secondary/comprehensive/academy/whatever.

Lets follow the usual hygiene precautions, and hope that those who most need it will get the care they need. Boris is exhorting companies to step up production of ventilators. As HSR said, they are damned if they do.....

Nonna has rightly tried from the outset to warn us of the seriousness of the situation. The local newspaper eco di bergamo had a full page of obituaries on Feb 9th. on March 13th it was ten pages.

Lets just help whoever we can, and I hope your faith in whoever or whatever you put your trust in will see you through, and keep the posts here going - we need them more than ever now.

Take care

 

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