MargieH

Graveyards and cemeteries

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MD., when you say you ' do tours', do you mean you run them or attend organised tours? Also, is it home or abroad?.

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I have been to Thiepval Memmorial in France, it is very sombre.

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Went to Tyne Cott a couple of times and been to Ypres' Menin gate three times ( staying just round the corner).

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22 hours ago, MargieH said:

Compo, were they very small long bones like hand and finger bones, or do you mean they were arm/leg bones from a baby or a small child.    Not that it really matters.... I"m just curious

 

MargieH: They looked like a child's humerus, ulna and radius to me - all disarticulated. I did wonder if a child had been buried just beneath the surface in "Pauper" fashion.

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Thanks for replying, Compo.  I'm pleased you reburied them...

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I think they had been there for some time, Margie - they had taken on the brown look of soil stained bone.

 

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Talking of shallow graves (which we weren't). We visited Bolsover castle many moons ago where we first joined the National Trust. One of the guides told us of a couple of the paths had lots of bodies buried in rows, all victims of the plague. She told us, they had to be buried quickly, hence they were only about 18" to 24" deep.

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It is sad to see church graveyards that are not valued or respected. The one in the town where we live falls into this category. The council cut the grass but do not remove sapling trees that grow up and destroy the monuments. Part of the graveyard was dug up for road widening and headstones were all taken down and laid flat beside the wall. A drive and car park were put in the graveyard. The Vicar will not allow any fund raising to put lights on the path to the car park and does not care that the path is lethal in snowy or wet weather. The one nice thing is that a volunteer plants flowers at the side of the drive up to the church. 

My mum was cremated and the funeral directors arranged for her ashes to be buried in the garden of remembrance at the Church in Yorkshire that she attended as a child and where she was married. The garden of remembrance is a beautifully kept area of grass with borders. Inside the church is a book of remembrance with the names of all those laid to rest in the garden. The names will remain and there is no threat of vandalism. The books of remembrance are also digitised. A friend of my mum's commented that they walked past the Church and looked over the wall remembering my mum and thinking "she is safe there".

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I’ve mentioned this before. My great Aunt Gertrude is buried at the General cemetery. That’s the one that runs from Canning Circus. I went to look for her grave A while back and was shocked at the way it is. Tents pitched between the graves and wine, beer and cider bottles strewn all over and used syringes and needles. Got some unpleasant looks from the ‘residents‘ but had no hassle. In a disgraceful state.

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49 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

Sorry to be pedantic BK but Bolsover Castle is English Heritage, not National Trust.

I bow to your superior knowledge Phil. Could have sworn that's  where we signed up. Don't  remember ever joining E.H. But I that's where we were told of the shallow graves...Your servant sir.

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Veering off track a wee bit, but still at Bolsover. The tipper lorry I  used to drive back in the late 60s, the driver who drove it before me went right up the A632 toward Bolsover with his back end in full tip. He hit a railway bridge that used to cross over the road, (so my uncle and dad told me). He'd tipped his load somewhere and didn't  lower properly, consequently, as he was driving the back went up ! Must have been half asleep.

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I too have been to Tyne Cott, Ypres and stood at the Menin Gate, while listning to the Last Post. It's a queer feeling as you get goose bumps. 

Beekay have you ever been to Champagne forest/woods we were going though Ardenn and just saw a sign post, did not realise where we were going, then out into the open and there was a very large white dove wings open it looked like it was going to swoop down. It was beautifull. We then followed the path into the woods, and there was history, a railway carrige where "Hitler" had signed the surrender papers, the actual railway carrige had been set on fire. If you have not been over there and not seen it Well it is well worth a visit.

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I know what you mean Mary1947 my mum would only have to hear the Last Post and she would burst into tears. It was on this day in 1940 that her brother died of his wounds received in fighting with the rear guard during the evacuation of Dunkirk.

At the close of every day at the Australian War Memorial they play the Last Post where the public is allowed to attend around the pool of reflection and remember those that made the ultimate sacrifice. Underneath the arches that you can see to the left and the right in the photo are walls upon which the names of all Australians killed in battle are inscribed.

 

Canberra - Accommodation, Attractions, Events - Tourism ...

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I don't know what it is but there's some thing about going round grave yards, it is so peace-full and reading about ages and family members,  if you think about it written on the head stones it's all private and these people are letting you see  all personl details.

I went over to "Dunkirk" with master (hubby) and stood on the beachers! it was a funny feeling (not funny ha ha ) but if I closed my eyes a could hear and see men on the beaches it must have been hell for them. If you have not been to the Dunkirk beaches there is a wall/plaque with dates/names/ranks and other info on. i do have photo of it in one of my albums.

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28 minutes ago, mary1947 said:

I don't know what it is but there's some thing about going round grave yards

Places, too. Slapton Sands has an eerie quality, and I'm sure it's not just because you are preconditioned by the knowledge of what happened.

Going to (socially distance) walk Maureen down to Wilford Village, to St Wilfrids. 60 years to the day she got married, so I anticipate a few tears.

Brew, don't get out of the car at the shops! I have a couple of books and some concertos, and only get out to load the car. Col is right, this is nowhere near over. The idiots on the beaches and parks have not lost, or nearly lost, close family. When they, do. they will shout the loudest.

Just back from a bike ride. Have to say, all the walkers and joggers obeying the rules and mindful of each other and distances. Perhaps the early morning ones are the ones who do it anyway.

Todays project - swapping the flimsy MDF tops on my new cheap workbench for some custom built floorboard sections. Happy days!

Take care of yourselves 

Phil

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1 hour ago, mary1947 said:

I don't know what it is but there's some thing about going round grave yards, it is so peace-full and reading about ages and family members, 

I agree Mary1947 especially in the historical country towns here in Australia. Almost without exception they all have a war memorial and when you look at the names you see so many with the same family name. Also looking at the tiny graves of the children of those that died so young of diseases that are today curable. Many of these have no formal graves as their families could not afford a headstone or even a simple cross and are remembered only by a boundary of stones or just an entry in the church or cemetery records.
 

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On 6/3/2020 at 1:25 PM, Beekay said:

MD., when you say you ' do tours', do you mean you run them or attend organised tours? Also, is it home or abroad?.

I run them. Sometimes very personalised, if someone has a relative who had died I will try and find the grave and locate it and if they wish, I will take them specifically to that grave, or direct them to it, and find out how they died. I have done that a few times. it brings comfort and some kind of unity. 

 I'm a member of the Institute of Battlefield Guides. 

Most often, its ex-military who go on tours. Sometimes it s a minibus of people from the pub! My speciality is Ypres and Passchendaele in Belgium and if they are fit enough I will walk them from Menin gate to Passchendaele along the road the soldiers walked so many years ago. I have many photos of the roads and places then and now, so I stop at certain points and ask them to look at a photo in  a pack I have prepared, The response is astounding. Just to see in the exact place they are standing what it was like in the war is amazing.  its a fair hike, but deeply interesting. Other special places are Gingers bar and Talbot House, in Poperinghe but not that far away. The ultimate is the Last Post at the Menin Gate. I know you have been and know how astounding it is. 

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13 hours ago, mary1947 said:

I too have been to Tyne Cott, Ypres and stood at the Menin Gate, while listning to the Last Post. It's a queer feeling as you get goose bumps. 

Beekay have you ever been to Champagne forest/woods we were going though Ardenn and just saw a sign post, did not realise where we were going, then out into the open and there was a very large white dove wings open it looked like it was going to swoop down. It was beautifull. We then followed the path into the woods, and there was history, a railway carrige where "Hitler" had signed the surrender papers, the actual railway carrige had been set on fire. If you have not been over there and not seen it Well it is well worth a visit.

it is the most amazing feeling. 

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Thank you for that insight MD., much appreciated. I have attended the service at the Menin gate. We once went to Ypres for Christmas and stayed in the Novotel just down the road from there. Went on three consecutive nights.

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4 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

Mercury Dancer.

Do you have knowledge of the Bullecourt area at all. If so I wonder if we might chat by pm. My Grandfather was killed there in March 1918 and I intend to visit.

https://nlha.org.uk/arf_item/present-location-uncertain/

Yes, I do, I know the Somme well, especially around Baupame which is not that far away. Mostly about 1 July 1916, but Bullecourt is not that far away. Let me know via PM and I will give you more information if you want to visit. 

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5 hours ago, Beekay said:

Thank you for that insight MD., much appreciated. I have attended the service at the Menin gate. We once went to Ypres for Christmas and stayed in the Novotel just down the road from there. Went on three consecutive nights.

I usually stay at Talbot House. 

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On 6/4/2020 at 1:38 PM, mercurydancer said:

I have many photos of the roads and places then and now, so I stop at certain points and ask them to look at a photo in  a pack I have prepared, The response is astounding. Just to see in the exact place they are standing what it was like in the war is amazing.  

 

I've got a couple of old volumes of books called 20 Years After  by Maj Gen Sir Ernest Swinton, compiled in the 1930s , comparing photos of bombed out WW1 scenes as to how they were later in the 1930s . It covers a few countries but there are plenty in France and Belgium . Example below :

 

14864946529_17b119514e_b.jpg

 

This was the same modern scene (I think) on Streetview

 

poelcappelle.jpg

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