Ukraine invasion...


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Interesting article in 'i'

 

It's paywall protected.. but ... :rolleyes:

 

By Ian Dunt
i columnist
February 25, 2022 3:15 pm(Updated 3:16 pm)

This is Ian Dunt’s Week, a subscriber-only newsletter from i. If you’d like to get this direct to your inbox, every single week, you can sign up here.

Good afternoon and welcome to my Friday newsletter. It’s been a terrible week, as bad as it gets really. We can talk about geopolitics, or Nato, or buffer zones all we want. But everyone knows the truth. You can see it if you have eyes to see. Russia invaded Ukraine because it is a democracy. Because it believes in Europe. In the values of Europe. So what we are seeing now is the dismantling of liberty. And we have to sit here watching it, unable to help, unable to do anything really, except demand action at home. Pitifully insufficient. Inadequate. But all we have.

Moments like this shine a light. They show people as they really are. It lets us see them clearly, without any of the usual complications or nuances. We should remember what we find there.

A guide to today's talking points, straight to your inbox

 

Look at Nigel Farage. Watch what he says. Take note of what he is. “Well, I was wrong,” he tweeted yesterday. “Putin has gone much further than I thought he would. A consequence of EU and Nato expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.”

 

A familiar message

It’s the same message he’s been pumping out for weeks. The EU and Nato are to blame. Putin should be placated by giving him exactly what he wants. And notice that phrase, the “Russian bear”. Notice the simmering enthusiasm behind it, the infatuation, the admiration. Notice the way that it logically means you do nothing to antagonise Russia, that you submit entirely to the will of Putin’s dictatorship.

He’s been at it for years, this godawful broken fag packet of a man – praising Putin, attacking Nato and Europe for “expansion”, parroting the Kremlin’s talking points. You couldn’t fit a single fucking cigarette paper between his opinions and those of the Russian regime.

And soon enough, he’ll be on the airwaves again – Question Time probably, or the Today programme – talking about the EU. He will sound off about the need for national sovereignty. And no-one will ask how this could possibly correspond to his complete lack of interest in Ukraine’s democratic will to join the EU and Nato, or his trembling, feeble-minded justifications for Russia’s assault on a free nation.

Putin’s emissary in the US

You see the same across the hard right. GB News – that disastrous, piss-poor, supposedly patriotic little outfit, spewing out conspiracy theories about Covid and stoking culture war tensions in the UK – has been cementing the pro-Kremlin position for weeks. Across the Atlantic, Fox News host Tucker Carlson, a used-car salesman who claims to love America but opposes everything it stands for, has been acting as Putin’s emissary in the US, branding Ukraine a “tyranny” and attacking president Joe Biden for treating the Russian president as a “bogeyman”.

 

And then there’s Trump, of course. The great messiah of Farage and Carlson. A cancerous growth of reactionary id upon which they worship. He spent the day of the invasion telling reporters that Putin was “pretty smart”. And again you could hear that background admiration. “He’s taking over a country, really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people, just walking right in.”

If there’s anything to be grateful for in this world – and this morning, honestly, it’s hard to find – it’s the fact that this man is no longer the US president. The idea of him in charge of America as this was happening is too dreadful to contemplate. It would be the complete and irrevocable breakdown of democracy as a motivating system in international politics.

The same lines issued by the hard left

And then, like some horrific pincer movement, we see the same language, the same sentiments and the same lines issued by the hard left. Look at the statement put out by Stop the War, a group once chaired by Jeremy Corbyn. Its assessment of the situation makes no mention at all of Russian aggression and instead focuses almost exclusively on how Britain “poured oil on the fire” of the conflict. And what is its solution? Well, funny thing there. It’s the same solution Farage and his little army of plastic patriots support – doing whatever the fuck Putin demands of them. “Nato should call a halt to its eastward expansion”. No mention at all of the fact that Ukraine wants to join Nato. Their wishes do not fit the narrative.

To their eternal and undying shame, 11 Labour MPs signed that statement. Let’s name them. They were Diane Abbott, John McDonnell, Richard Burgon, Ian Lavery, Beth Winter, Zarah Sultana, Bell Ribeiro-Addy, Apsana Begum, Mick Whitley, Tahir Ali and Ian Mearns. Keir Starmer took care of the problem promptly, doing a forceful bit of housekeeping in which all 11 retracted their signature within an hour. But we should never forget that they did so, or the abject cowardice and moral relativism they displayed when a free people were being murdered by an imperialist state.

Unlikely bedfellows

Why does this happen? How do people so seemingly politically distant come to find themselves bedfellows? Partly it’s political. The hard left hates Nato, the hard right hates the EU. Putin hates both and wants to prevent Ukraine from joining either.

But it’s not just that. Many on the hard left also dislike the EU, as Corbyn’s pitiful half-hearted efforts during the Brexit battles demonstrated. Many on the right despise Nato, as Trump’s regular attacks on it showed. In truth, they have an instinctive suspicion of all international institutions, based on a conspiracy theory mindset which portrays these organisations as barriers against their revolutions – socialist, nativist, whatever. The method of thought counts more than the objective.

But it’s something more than that, something fundamental. It is a loss of common humanity. They can’t see the people there – hiding in subways in Kyiv, trapped in basements with crying children, desperately buying food or trying to escape the city. They cannot see humanity from behind their ideological blinkers. So instead they fire out smug, self-satisfied, know-nothing horse shit about buffer zones or Nato expansion or Russian bears, anything to relieve themselves of the fact that the world is not reflecting the black-and-white story they have always told themselves.

 

You can always spot them: the ones who put ideology above people. You can always see them when the time comes. And the time has come now. We should remember it. We should remember forever who they are and what they said when Putin came to snuff out Ukraine’s freedom.

 

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Just had a brilliant text.........my son Has left the Ukraine and is driving thru Poland...........I thank the good Lord...he had been in Ukraine since day one of the ''Invasion''              He

My Son......saying a 'Heart-breaking goodbye'' to two of his friends..somewhere in the Ukraine.........

Had Dinner with my son....who filled me in on a few of his activities in the Ukraine.....(.i'm sure not all though.).......so relieved to see him........      

 ' I see the Donbas lot as just mischief making encouraged by Russia.  If they like Russia so much why did they not just go there?  There's no shortage of space. What would be the UK Govt. reaction if the Scots (  or more likely a  proportion of Scots.) started an armed insurrection in support of Scottish Independence? '

I’m quite surprised you wrote “if they liked Russia so much”? Seriously? Donbas, where they were born, where they live and work WAS Russia and has been since the late 1700s.  They even speak Russian and the border you speak of was, at best, notional. What we don't and can't know for sure is if the people actually want and agree to be part of a breakaway state. To say they should just leave and go is wrong on so many levels.

 

Your Scottish analogy, really Col? The difference between Scottish separatists and those in Ukraine is that small thing called a ballot box.

 

Your first, second, third and Zhivago points are simply whistling in the dark

 

'Elsewhere another commentator has calculated that there is no way Russia could sustain an occupation of Ukraine, with the troops it has available, and against determined Guerrilla action , non cooperation and insurrection'
 

Whoever said that is naïve. Russia held Afghanistan, thousands of miles away and has one of the most inhospitable topographies in the world, for more than ten years. Ukraine, a few miles down the road with a short supply chain and easy access, will not present much difficulty once they occupy key points and establish their dominance. There will be a struggle with Ukrainian forces, but it won't last long. One of the major projects Putin did was to modernise the military, they are more than capable.

 

Let me be clear, I do not think Russia is right.  Putin is authoritarian and ruthless with it, an old-fashioned semi-communist cast in the same mould as Joseph Stalin. He even changed the Russian constitution to allow himself to be president until 2036, which at his age is virtually for life,

He does however have a degree of popularity, the Russian economy boomed under his leadership, until he annexed the Crimea.
Whether the latest round of sanctions, on top of those imposed in 2014, plus a war on the doorstep will affect his standing is difficult to judge. 

 

People usually support wars that are short and victorious, as in the Falklands. If Putin pulls it off, and looks more than likely, he will be a hero.

Finally when the dust settles there will be a period of huffing and puffing before the west resumes normal relations, until he invades another Baltic state.

 

 

 

 

 

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This is Ian Dunt’s Week, a subscriber-only newsletter from i.

 

An overly long diatribe using inappropriate language. I was taught, once you resort to foul language, you've already lost the argument.

 

I can sum up his article thus:  "I don't like Farage and hate everyone". But I'm going to feed the ego and pander to the mutual admiration society that pay for this crap".

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1 hour ago, Brew said:

I can sum up his article thus:  "I don't like Farage and hate everyone". But I'm going to feed the ego and pander to the mutual admiration society that pay for this crap".

 

I can see your point about the language, but you dismiss his whole argument as 'I don't like Farage and hate everyone'.  Are you sure you actually read it?

 

And for what it's worth I've just been put in Facebook Gaol again..for 7 days..for describing Farage as a 'despicable fag end' of a man.  Of course the F'book algorithms are rubbish and have no doubt picked up on the word 'fag' and misconstrued it as some sort of homophobic comment, but whatever. There is no opportuity to properly appeal..or even edit comments.  Facebook is itself becoming a totalitarian entity.

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I read it again, still have the same opinion…

 

As for your Facebook trials, I'd suggest you're expressing opinions in the wrong place. Try a video of someone doing a pratfall, cute little kittens or selfies with strange embellishments.  ;)

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I seriously  find it very difficult to believe that there is nothing in Dunt's analysis that you agree with.

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C'mon Col, it's just a nasty piece of character assassination wrapped in a populist diatribe. It's playing to those heroic tub thumpers who condemn everything and do nothing but hide behind their keyboards and snipe. He's not really bringing anything new to the table except innuendo sans any factual evidence in support.

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There’s an article in the Independent about it.

Mrs B

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On 2/26/2022 at 3:52 PM, Brew said:

C'mon Col, it's just a nasty piece of character assassination wrapped in a populist diatribe. It's playing to those heroic tub thumpers who condemn everything and do nothing but hide behind their keyboards and snipe. He's not really bringing anything new to the table except innuendo sans any factual evidence in support.

 

We're going to have to agree to differ on that one.  You may see it that way, but I see it as a very intelligent assessment of the way that extremists on all sides can find reasons to 'approve' Putin's actions, because to disapprove of Putin's actions and objectives, forces them to disapprove of their own  ideologically narrow and ultimately selfish ambitions.

 

On 2/26/2022 at 12:03 PM, DJ360 said:

Unlikely bedfellows

Why does this happen? How do people so seemingly politically distant come to find themselves bedfellows? Partly it’s political. The hard left hates Nato, the hard right hates the EU. Putin hates both and wants to prevent Ukraine from joining either.

But it’s not just that. Many on the hard left also dislike the EU, as Corbyn’s pitiful half-hearted efforts during the Brexit battles demonstrated. Many on the right despise Nato, as Trump’s regular attacks on it showed. In truth, they have an instinctive suspicion of all international institutions, based on a conspiracy theory mindset which portrays these organisations as barriers against their revolutions – socialist, nativist, whatever. The method of thought counts more than the objective.

But it’s something more than that, something fundamental. It is a loss of common humanity. They can’t see the people there – hiding in subways in Kyiv, trapped in basements with crying children, desperately buying food or trying to escape the city. They cannot see humanity from behind their ideological blinkers. So instead they fire out smug, self-satisfied, know-nothing horse shit about buffer zones or Nato expansion or Russian bears, anything to relieve themselves of the fact that the world is not reflecting the black-and-white story they have always told themselves.

 

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14 hours ago, colly0410 said:

It's in a few papers about them, they haven't used them AFAIK. I suspect they're there if things go mega pear shaped for them... 

 

There is a lot of general chatter about them online.  Thing is, nasty as they are.. they have no true relationship to Nuclear Weapons and nor do they create radioactive fall out.

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8 hours ago, DJ360 said:

How do people so seemingly politically distant come to find themselves bedfellows?

 

OK, let's state the blindingly obvious before playing the pathos card with frightened people hiding underground, then throw in  hungry crying children into the mix and as much righteous indignation as we can.

 

---------------------------------

 

7 hours ago, DJ360 said:

 

There is a lot of general chatter about them online.  Thing is, nasty as they are.. they have no true relationship to Nuclear Weapons and nor do they create radioactive fall out.

 

It's the old, old, “never let the truth stand in the way of a good story”… Not sure, but it seems to originate from that bastion of wisdom and truth, CNN.

It couldn't possibly be misinformation 'leaked' to increase pressure, from Russia to scare Ukraine, from Ukraine to generate greater reactions against uncle Putin... could it?

 

Establishing what is true and what is not is difficult. One video clip on social media purporting to be of Russians attacking turned out to be from a video game!

The horrific clip of a tank swerving and crushing a car is far from complete. One report says that Ukriainas fired on the tank killing Russian soldiers and the driver losing control, it's possible it was the driver they hit.  Watching the whole unedited version, we see the tank clearly skid out of control before hitting the car, and some delay before the tank reverses off.

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12 hours ago, Brew said:

It's the old, old, “never let the truth stand in the way of a good story”… Not sure, but it seems to originate from that bastion of wisdom and truth, CNN.

It couldn't possibly be misinformation 'leaked' to increase pressure, from Russia to scare Ukraine, from Ukraine to generate greater reactions against uncle Putin... could it?

 

Establishing what is true and what is not is difficult. One video clip on social media purporting to be of Russians attacking turned out to be from a video game!

The horrific clip of a tank swerving and crushing a car is far from complete. One report says that Ukriainas fired on the tank killing Russian soldiers and the driver losing control, it's possible it was the driver they hit.  Watching the whole unedited version, we see the tank clearly skid out of control before hitting the car, and some delay before the tank reverses off.

 

I have no idea. I expressed no opinion as to the use or otherwise of such weapons in this conflict.

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I know, it's just me thinking out loud so to speak, probably totally as usual. Today I predicted a ceasefire. Ukraine ceding the Donbas to Russia and ongoing talks re; NATO membership. Seem I have that wrong as well. I thought the war would be brutal, but short-lived, it looks like Ukraine are better than expected so wrong again.

The tank story is true though, the film in its unedited version shows things quite clearly

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I didn't expect much from the talks today because I didn't imagine Putin wanting to settle for less than a complete regime change in Ukraine and Ukraine is clearly in no mood to accomodate his megalomania.

 

I saw a report of an earlier diatribe by Putin complaining that his country had lost 40% of its territory since the break up of USSR.  Seemingly, having the largest country by area on the planet isn't enough for his ego.  But more to the point what he regards as 'his' territory, is  whole swathes of Eastern Europe which were occupied by the USSR after WW2 and allowed no say in their own governance etc.

The contrast between that and the Democratic west with voluntary NATO membership could not be more stark, but Putin just cannot, or will not see it and if he remains, Russia is bound to inevitably become ever  poorer and weaker, but possibly more dangerous.  Cornered Rat etc...

 

Meanwhile there is a continuing process of isolation happening.  Finally FIFA seems to have got the message.  I reckon the IOC should throw Russia out of the Olympics completely.  They've been cheating forever in any case.  Heard tonight that a Classical Conductor has been booted out of lots of positions and had all sorts of concerts cancelled, because despite still being decribed as an all time great and a visionary conductor, he still openly supports Putin..so he's out. Similar stuff happening all over so Putin should be in no doubt that he is now an international Pariah with support only from Belarus and a few pretty insignificant rogue states. Even China hasn't come out in full support.

 

I know you regard this as wishful thinking and in one sense it is.. but in a very real sense, if the whole World can keep up the pressure on Putin and commit to taking the economic 'hit' which is bound to affect us.. I wouldn't be surprised if Putin disapeared for a few days only to be declared 'ill', or 'indisposed', before being quietly disposed of.

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I noticed UK time, between 9pm and 1am last Thursday, the pound, euro, and dollar took a minus, roughly around a 2 percent hit, this was returned to an even playing field by 5.30am UK time......

 

Everybody with a mobile smart phone is surely an 'independent' journalist, 

The car's that remained untouched by 'fire' from a clearly derelict building are intresting.

 

 

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I only hope the powerful Russians (Oligarchs and Military) overthrow the madman.  Thoughts with Ukraine and the people

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Col, you could be right, Putin may have overestimated Russia's ability to dominate Ukraine, and if the reports are anything like accurate  ordinary Russians are now starting to suffer economically.

 

America and western military chiefs must be loving it, this is no war game. They have real  evidence of Russian military capability, the strategies and tactics they employ, how their weapons perform etc. and more besides.

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