Anything Political

[DJ360 6,721]

https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/oh-britain-what-have-you-done-part-∞-25.230945/page-20#post-3745640

[Brew 5,408]

Is it only me that thinks Jeremy Corbyn is the one keeping the Blessed Boris in office? Were he not leader of the Labour party I'm convinced there would a vote of no confidence and Johnson would fall. 

[DJ360 6,721]

I think it's entirely possible that a different Labour leader would have had us 'enjoying a Labour Govt. as we speak.

 

 However.. we are where we are and  it's all more complex than that.  There seem to be endless permutations  of possible alliances etc., and different interpretations of the actual position of HM Official Opposition.

 

Much more pressing to me is that Johnson is now blatantly proposing to 'defend' the exceptionally flawed so-called 'democracy' of the Brexit vote, by 'suspending' the far wider and more established centuries old democracy which is legally and constitutionally interpreted and enacted by Parliament.  Parliament.. not some jumped up spiv.. is the  legitimate power in this country.

 

Why do I find myself thinking of the Burning of the Reichstag and the 'night of the long knives'?

 

It is all very worrying and it's certain that the solids will impact the air conditioning very hard next week.

[philmayfield 6,115]

Brew's right. Corbyn is the reason that Labour is lagging in the polls. Many people lean to slightly left of centre but not to the hard left. I can't understand why the man doesn't realise his unpopularity and step aside for someone who would be more acceptable to Labour voters.

[DJ360 6,721]

P.S.  I am STILL waiting for any of our resident Brexiteers to present any sort of assessment of the 'benefits' of leaving the EU.  Brexiteers of course can be sure vthat I'll disagree with whatever they come up with.. but I'd have thought they'd be able to back up their love of Brexit with something more than emotion and bluster.

[DJ360 6,721]

11 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

Brew's right. Corbyn is the reason that Labour is lagging in the polls. Many people lean to slightly left of centre but not to the hard left. I can't understand why the man doesn't realise his unpopularity and step aside for someone who would be more acceptable to Labour voters.

 

 

I'm going to split hairs here Phil.  Corbyn is a poor leader.. no doubt about that, but not for the reasons trotted out by the Far Right owned press.  Corbyn is not 'Hard Left'.  None of the policies in the Labour Manifesto are 'Hard Left'.  It's just that the Far Right owned press has chosen to portray Corbyn that way and he's been very poor at deflecting such lies.  Meanwhile, the Far Right press are giving Johnson an easy ride.. when we all know that he is really a liar, a bully and a crook.

 

Like I said to Brew.  It's a complex situation, but much of the support for the likes of Johnson isn't based on complex analysis of a complex situation, but simplistic populist mob culture.

[DJ360 6,721]

 

Thought provoking article from Chris Patten:

 

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/britain-brexit-failed-state-by-chris-patten-2019-08?fbclid=IwAR39V2OuviZkSjGZ8ZRYM6-EHNwCvmxyaTbxN6W3PM8gRyLkkIe7nocC9ro

 

A brief clip from the above: 

Quote

As a result, the Labour Party is now led by Jeremy Corbyn, an old-fashioned far-left socialist. And 90,000 Conservative members, whose views have become more extreme as their numbers have fallen, recently selected Boris Johnson as their new leader, and thus as the country’s new prime minister. In doing so, they have chosen a mendacious chancer. It is no exaggeration to say that Johnson has lied his way to the top, first in journalism and then in politics. His ascent owes everything to the growing xenophobia and English nationalism that many Conservatives now espouse. Johnson is prime minister because he has promised to deliver Brexit by the end of October, recklessly assuring the world that he will take the United Kingdom out of the European Union with or without a deal, and whatever the consequences.Johnson has chosen a government of like-minded anti-European nationalists. His principal adviser, Dominic Cummings, was described by David Cameron, Britain’s prime minister from 2010 to 2016, as a “career psychopath.” Cummings is, alongside Johnson, the most powerful figure in the new government; he is an unelected wrecker who earlier this year was ruled to be in contempt of parliament. Fittingly, if depressingly, he now is masterminding our departure from the EU with or without parliamentary approval.

 

[DJ360 6,721]

Johnson just proved what a shameless lying crook he is by standing up on TV and trying to claim that his proposed 'prorogation' of Parliament is 'entirely normal' because he needs a 'Queen's Speech for his new Government and that it is 'nothing to do with Brexit.'  Talk about stretching credibility.  Everyone apart from him and his cronies has expressed outrage at this deliberate misuse of power and subversion of the rule of Parliament.  

Expect big trouble.

[philmayfield 6,115]

I’ve signed the petition against this move. There’s well over the required 100,000 for a parliamentary debate already. Whether it will do any good I don’t know but I’m not going to riot in the streets.

[DJ360 6,721]

Not keen on rioting either, but we are witnessing a right wing coup by those who have no respect for, and frankly see no need for, Parliament.  The even sadder thing is that so many stupid people see nothing wrong with it because theres' been 'too much messing about and we just need it done'. 

[Brew 5,408]

I agree with Patten.  Corbyn IS hard left (hard left/far left, same thing). As for manifesto it is nothing more than an idealistic set of goals that cannot be delivered, in legal terms it's nothing more than 'sales puff' and no one is expected to take it seriously. I don't nor i suspect do many others who are not radical romantics with their heads in a cloud.

 

It's an uncomplicated situation made complex by those who try to muddy the waters with nuances that in reality have no bearing and carry no weight.

[philmayfield 6,115]

I see that the Queen has just approved the prorogation of Parliament in September. I don’t suppose she gives a stuff whilst sitting up there in the grandeur of Balmoral Castle. There’s always Sandringham for Christmas to look forward to. Will Corbyn declare a republic? Even I would support him for that!

[Brew 5,408]

47 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

Will Corbyn declare a republic? Even I would support him for that!

 

Now I know for sure you are the spawn of Satan!     

[philmayfield 6,115]

I've been a Republican for as long as I can remember. I've never seen much point in the Royal family.

[DJ360 6,721]

4 hours ago, Brew said:

I agree with Patten.  Corbyn IS hard left (hard left/far left, same thing). As for manifesto it is nothing more than an idealistic set of goals that cannot be delivered, in legal terms it's nothing more than 'sales puff' and no one is expected to take it seriously. I don't nor i suspect do many others who are not radical romantics with their heads in a cloud.

 

It's an uncomplicated situation made complex by those who try to muddy the waters with nuances that in reality have no bearing and carry no weight.

 

What about the other parties' Manifestos Brew?  Are they all  'sales puff' too?  And if Labour's is just 'puff'.. how can you conclude that a Corbyn Govt. would be 'hard left'?  What even is 'hard left'?

 

Would you at least agree that we've basically just seen what amounts to a right wing 'coup'?  Unelected Prime Minister supported by unelected crooks and chancers like  Dominic Cummings, taking out the opposition of Parliament.. which is the true authority and seat of Democracy in the country, by making up some tripe about a Queen's Speech.  FIVE WEEKS?  Spontaneous demos in numerous cities already.. I'd say serious civil unrest in weeks and much more if the crooks get their 'no deal'. 

Scary times.

 

 

[DJ360 6,721]

2 hours ago, philmayfield said:

I've been a Republican for as long as I can remember. I've never seen much point in the Royal family.

 

But to be fair to Madge, she has no choice but to agree to Johnson's advice.. unless it can be legally demonstrated to be wrong.  Which it obviously is.

 

Personally, I'm tolerant of the Royals as they are a bit of a money spinner.. but the alleged antics of some of them are not helping their image, or their case.

[FLY2 10,108]

I see the remain fraternity are now squealing 'Democracy'. Well they certainly didn't want to acknowledge it till today !

[Brew 5,408]

Manifestos, all of them, are little more than unattainable pie in the sky. Like many political theories they are long on ideals, short on pragmatism but good for keeping the weak minded on song.

Corbyn is described as hard/far left by many writers and commentators and I have yet read a good argument against it. There is no formal definition, 'far' is an indeterminate measure but most people understand the sobriquet. However I would suggest articles he and his chum McDonnell have written in the past are closer to the extreme left than the center.

 

How can I conclude he would lead a  'hard left' government?

 

He is demanding a vote of no confidence in Parliament. In 2016 he lost, (massively ,172-40) a vote of confidence as Labour leader but then turned and said it had "no

constitutional legitimacy"!

 

The manifesto is a compromise document and a mish mash that tries to satisfy the various factions within the NEC. To even attempt a small proportion would cripple the economy but I'm sure with a majority he would force his will on parliament.

 

The policies on nationalisation are for Rail, Post, Water and utilities but steel, banks, BT and mobile operators have also been put forward. I think they would come into being under his leadership. What did Marx say about the means of production?

 

He has considered segregation for female travellers .

 

The Falklands conflict was 'a Tory plot'

 

He refuses to condemn the IRA/PIRA etc. and wants a united Ireland saying "I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland"

He  is ignoreing  the will of the people of the six counties despite saying, "I would prefer the UK to stay together, yes, but I recognise the right of people to take the decision on their own autonomy and independence", 

 

All seem somewhat extreme to me. There are many more instances that convince me but It's getting boring now..

 

Edit:

Forgot to answer the comment about a coup...…. yes I agree and if there are demonstrations in the streets I will join!

[DJ360 6,721]

Phew!!

 

A little late to tackle that lot tonight and anyway I'm not a blind follower of Corbyn.  I just object to the way he is portrayed... especially by a press which does little to criticise the far right chicanery, dishonesty, sleaze, illegal campaign funding etc., etc., which is fuelling the current situation.

 

As for the coup and the demonstrations..  They are already reported to have started in Liverpool, Manchester and Chester.  Just wait till the shit really hits the fan....

[DJ360 6,721]

5 hours ago, FLY2 said:

I see the remain fraternity are now squealing 'Democracy'. Well they certainly didn't want to acknowledge it till today !

 

Oversimplified Fly. 

1. The argument which came to a head today is not about leave v remain..it is about deal or no deal and that crook Johnson's machinations to block Parliament in its legitimate efforts to prevent no deal.  Nobody voted for no deal.

2. Whatever the leavers think, Parliament is the arbiter of Democracy in this country.. not the Govt, and certainly not a minority Govt, supported by a bunch of bribed Irish bigots, and led by a 'Prime Minister' elected by a tiny minority of the country's population.

[jonab 1,644]

Inasmuch as anyone here is interested in British politics, there are lots who are peeing themselves with laughter at the farce being played out currently in Westminster. As someone said to me yesterday 'digne de Feydeau' (worthy of Feydeau).

 

For edification, Feydeau is known as le maître de la farce française (the master of the French farce) with farce being defined by Mr Google as 'a comic dramatic work using buffoonery and horseplay and typically including crude characterization and ludicrously improbable situations.'

 

Even before this current situation (however ludicrous), the main protagonist had a reputation of being an utter buffoon and, as each day passes, he does nothing to assuage this. His actions now, though, seem to be becoming very dangerous.

 

I'm becoming more and more happy that I am now un citoyen du republique française and out of that mire.

[philmayfield 6,115]

Yes, but your President appears to be married to his mother! 

[jonab 1,644]

Macron is Johnson without the humour. He has little respect from the general populace as shown by the frequent demonstrations in Paris and elsewhere.

 

Regarding Brigitte Macron, she was his geography (or similar) teacher. She has a lot more popular respect than her husband. She has only come to the forefront of the pseudo-political scene because of caustic remarks made by another of the world's crazy leaders, Jair Bolsonaro whose wife is (apparently) 37 whilst he is 64 - role reversal, perhaps Macron 41, wife 66 - age difference 27 years in one case, 25 years in the other with Macron being the 'winner' if such a thing is appropriate here. Yet another of the world's crazy leaders, Trump has a wife 24 years younger than he.

 

Does this indicate in your mind that Bolsonaro and Trump are married to their daughters?

[philmayfield 6,115]

No, I was joking wasn’t I? 

[jonab 1,644]

I do appreciate what you said - I was also joking