Anything Political

[HSR 286]

Bad tenant's, slum landlord's, C5?.. enjoy!

There are some incredible discrepancies, A* to a U I heard on the radio, it's a strange year.. luck on the bright side and let them fly..

Chances are the considered under achiever's will shine in an odd year.

And as DJ say's, the number of foreign students will probably be down by 30 percent at least..

 

 

 

[DJ360 6,721]

6 hours ago, Brew said:

Yes. No academic attainment? how did they get on an A level course without the necessary academic attainment?.

 

OK.. poor wording on my part but I'm still baffled that you don't get my point.  I mean kids from families with no previous record in HE for example.  Much of the basis of the disquiet at present is because the 'algorithm' used has unfairly 'capped' attainment of bright kids in  schools with a weaker track record.  The algorithm has been applied to all kids in a school, based on previous school performance, and that hammers bright individuals. It is grossly unfair.

By contrast, it seems that the algorithm has actually caused a boost to grades in Private schools and particularly in subjects such as Latin and Classics etc. which are more typically taught in private schools.  This has further boosted the almost 'built in' advantage which private school pupils already enjoy.

You really should spend an hour watching the BBC news channel, which is currently showing many many people, including prominent Tory backbenchers etc., educators, exam specialists and even a former head of Ofqual.. who are all very clear that this 'system' and 'algorithm' has produced bizarre and damaging effects for many.  Lord Baker echoed my thoughts by saying 'If we are generous with this years students..who will blame us?

 

6 hours ago, Brew said:

Nobody downgraded anyone unless they had good reason.

 

Here.. you are just plain wrong.  As I keep on saying.. an algorithm has been applied which makes massive assumptions about...and 'caps' present individual performance.. based on previous cohort performance in schools.  This is indefensible.

 

6 hours ago, Brew said:

You mention several times your concern for the poor yet are dismissive of the prospect of 19/20 yr olds being jobless, degree less and thousands in debt. It seems it is of little concern. I don't think those involved will consider it weak.

 

The first point here is that the majority of those affected were planning/hoping to go to Uni and were therefore already prepared to take on the employment risk and the potential debt which worries you.  Whatever the present system has done to grades.. it has done nothing to the individual capability or otherwise of students and therefore your point has a minor effect at best.  The second point here is that the whole grading disaster is doing more damage in terms of which Uni or course offer students are now able to take up, than whether they can actually go to uni or not.

 

6 hours ago, Brew said:

True  many drop out and  will again this year, so why add to the misery? It's naïve to think there would be no backlash, no accusations of raising false hopes and pushing students onto courses they clearly can't cope with.

 

Nobody is pushing anybody to over aspire.  Precisely the opposite.  I've already covered this above.

 

6 hours ago, Brew said:

Every year there are tears at bedtime when the grades are lower than expected and blame for teachers, schools, the government etc are bandied about.

 

Frankly.. I don't recognise this scenario.  People do not generally spend 5 or 7 years in a secondary/tertiary institution only to then blame that institution for their own failure. I spent 30 years working with young people and institutions at precisely the transition points we are currently discussing.  I saw very few cases of such discontent.  If they were unhappy with the institution, they would have moved on earlier. 

Of course, there are always exceptions.  A neighbour of mine railed constantly about the school his daughter shared with my two.  He claimed they were 'not teaching her'.  I was more of the view that she 'was not learning'.. since my two and all the other local kids were doing OK.  To avoid a row, I kept my own counsel.. but he was clearly of the view that education was a 'passive' process on the part of students.. rather than the active learning process most of us recognise.

 

6 hours ago, Brew said:

Bad man! you know very well that's not what I meant. The call was for a sensible and compassionate solution, typical Labour party ideological rhetoric.

 

  It was my call.  I haven't heard what Starmer or any other Labour politician has said.

 

6 hours ago, Brew said:

A piece, in the Telegraph I think, produced figures showing a clear narrowing of the gap between private and state results on degree courses over a number of years.  2017/18 showed results for private schools actually fell - not by much I grant you but a reduction non the less.

 

So, at best.. 2 years out of date.  Whatever those stats showed.. they are completely irrelevant to what has been done to this year's A level (and no doubt GCSE ) cohort by the employment of a deeply flawed algorithm.

 

They got it wrong.. and whoever is technically reponsible.. it comes back to Johnson and Williamson to sort it out.  That is their job.. though you wouldn't think so by their antics.. or lack of.  Instead of leading.. they are just digging a deeper hole via their ignorance and incompetence.  Even Tory Lord Baker has said loud and clear...  "When you are in a hole.. stop digging".. but this shower would rather spend time preventing the possibility of someone getting a break, than ensuring that the deserving get what they are due.

 

6 hours ago, Brew said:

Fine if you want to fill Circus, Surf, Hacking and old Norse study courses (they are real courses). But do you really want doctoring by someone who can't spell haemorrhage?

 

 

Not that old chestnut again surely?  Every area of endeavour is potentially a degree subject, if rigourously applied.  But, the press tend to jump on the obscure.  I still recall a little disagreement with another poster 'of this Parish'... when I mentioned that it was possible to study the impact of the Beatles as a part of a degree in Music and Performing Arts or somesuch. The point.. consistently ignored by said poster, was, that there was a module in the Degree which allowed this as an option.. and why not?  The Beatles had and continue to have huge musical and cultural significance.  But it was never suggested that this was a Degree in The Beatles.. except of course by the poster concerned.

 

The reality is that some institutions. for whatever reason, are not as popular as others.  It isn't all necessarily about their quality or performance and indeed I frequently noted that there was a sort of 'jungle telegraph', which operated amongst A level students.. to the effect that 'Uni X' was 'the best for subject X'.  There was frequently little or no truth in this.. but assorted unis and courses became 'flavour of the month' with remarkable frequency.

 

Those  Unis/Courses which are not thus favoured.. may have surplus places in some .. and those do not necessarily have to be obscure or unusual. More than a little of the difference in 'quality' between degrees across institutions is in the minds of those who ascribe to educational snobbery.

 

The way A levels work.. and are Graded.. has changed since I was working with A level students... but it remains the case that ALL degrees awarded in the UK have to be either awarded by a 'Recognised Body' ..mostly the old Unis the former Polytechnics and some new Unis.. or by a 'Listed Body' which is essentially a satellite institution of a 'Recognised Body' which actually awards the degree.  For e.g., Mrs Col's degree was awarded by Lancaster Uni although she studied at Edge Hill.  Edge Hill has since gained Uni status and awards its own degrees.  I studied at Manchester Polytechnic and my degree was awarded by the CNAA (Council For National Academic Awards), which moderated and verified all Polytechnic degrees. Manchester Poly is now Manchster Metropolitan Uni and a 'Recognised Body'.

 

https://www.gov.uk/check-a-university-is-officially-recognised/recognised-bodies

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

With reference to the Tory Party and it's 'dishing out of funds to it's friends.'  I'm amazed you don't see this.  Only a short while ago we were discussing Baroness Dido wotsername.....

 

  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-backers-handed-180m-worth-22493296

 

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/professions/article/nao-to-probe-governments-ppe-procurement-amid-concerns-of-150m-spent-on-unusable-masks

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffnt&q=Failed+PPE+contracts&ia=web

 

And on Test and Trace.. good old SERCO rears it's ugly incompetent head once more:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/31/outsourcing-england-test-trace-nhs-private

 

I think you really ought to accept that it is the current Tory 'default position' that any and all contracts must be awarded to the Private Sector.. preferably to 'friends' of the party.. and that the Private Sector must take precedence irrespective of competence or suitability.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DJ360 6,721]

7 hours ago, Brew said:

Off topic somewhat, are we meant to believe Droodzilla is Lev Landau?

 

I have no idea why he uses that Avatar.

[Gem 1,430]

Like some others on here I was in the teaching profession and one of the things I noticed was that a proportion of students did not 'try hard' when doing mocks. I brought this up on a few occasions and the reply was..we get to do it for real later will study for that one, don't know if that is still the attitude i really hope not as some will go to university and be out of their depth.

[Brew 5,408]

Our discussion is getting a bit out hand in it's length, I shall try to be more succinct in replying.

  

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Lord Baker echoed my thoughts by saying 'If we are generous with this years students..who will blame us?

 

I did say your idea was a good one and the 'wheat/chaff' scenario was worth consideration.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The first point here is that the majority of those affected were planning/hoping to go to Uni and were therefore already prepared to take on the employment risk and the potential debt which worries you. 

 

True enough BUT they were prepared to take on those risks with the proviso their employment chances will be greatly enhanced by having a worthwhile degree.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Nobody is pushing anybody to over aspire. 

 

My turn for the poor choice of word; Allowing students onto courses they clearly can't cope with.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Frankly.. I don't recognise this scenario....  I saw very few cases of such discontent.  If they were unhappy with the institution, they would have moved on earlier. 

 

You don't recognize it but give examples?

I would not have expected you to take the view, 'you don't like it - move'. Do they really have a choice?

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

So, at best.. 2 years out of date.

 

Almost by definition statistical data is out of date but it does not detract from the relevance when viewed over time.

  

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Lord Baker echoed my thoughts by saying 'If we are generous with this years students..who will blame us?

 

I did say your idea was a good one and the 'wheat/chaff' scenario was worth consideration.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The first point here is that the majority of those affected were planning/hoping to go to Uni and were therefore already prepared to take on the employment risk and the potential debt which worries you. 

 

True enough BUT they were prepared to take on those risks with the proviso their employment chances will be greatly enhanced by having a worthwhile degree. They entered in the knowledge they have been properly prepared and their chance of success  high.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Nobody is pushing anybody to over aspire. 

 

My turn for the poor choice of word; Allowing students onto courses they clearly can't cope with.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

So, at best.. 2 years out of date. 

 

Almost by definition statistical data is out of date. My quote was a counter to the the private v state who does best argument, not meant to have relevance to the downgrading fiasco.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Every area of endeavour is potentially a degree subject, if rigourously applied. 

 

True enough but how much use or relevance is having a degree in an esoteric subject?

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The way A levels work.. and are Graded.. has changed since I was working with A level students.

 

Which goes to the heart of the argument, we are both out of date, dinosaurs harking back to a time when things were different and comparing them to now. I am often asked which uni is best for a particular subject, Nottm or Trent. My answer is always the same, "how would I know"? 

--------------------------

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I think you really ought to accept that it is the current Tory 'default position' that any and all contracts must be awarded to the Private Sector

 

What are the choices? of course they go to the private sector, we don't have a viable alternative. Whether they are friend or foe politically is irrelevant.

 

There was a cock up with the mask fastenings , nothing to do with mates or back handers, but I grant Serco and breweries comes to mind.

 

Imagine you're PM, you want a solution and you want it fast - who you gonna call? A world renowned designer? a huge manufacturing plant that's standing idle? or some obscure but politically correct collective? I would go for pragmatism over politics.

 

[DJ360 6,721]

12 hours ago, Gem said:

Like some others on here I was in the teaching profession and one of the things I noticed was that a proportion of students did not 'try hard' when doing mocks. I brought this up on a few occasions and the reply was..we get to do it for real later will study for that one, don't know if that is still the attitude i really hope not as some will go to university and be out of their depth.

 

Believe it or not.. I don't recall doing mocks.. except for the Chemistry Practical. but it was a long time ago.  In normal circumstances as I understand it, mocks are just a practice run and nothing else.  It strikes me as reasonable that some students may use them as an indicator of their real knowledge.. without 'cramming'. That could give them a pointer as to where to put their revision effort.  Others might do their damnedest to get full on results in everything.

So.. using mock results as a substitute for the actual exam result is dangerous.

 

As for being 'out of depth'.  There's a lot that could be said about that.  It's not a new thing by any means.  It's long been understood (by some) that A level success does not necessarily indicate degree success.  Just one small example.  Mrs Col went to Uni as a mature student around 1990.  Before she started her degree..she studied A levels in English and French at nightschool.. just as a 'refresher'. as she already had them from the late 60s.  When she arrived at Edge Hill to study for a Degree in French and English. she found that around 50% of the 18 year olds joining the course needed 'remedial' classes in Grammar.

 

How the hell anyone can get an A level in any language without understanding Grammar... beats me...  It would be like getting an A level Chemistry without understanding the difference between an atom, a molecule, a compound and a mixture.

[DJ360 6,721]

11 hours ago, Brew said:

True enough BUT they were prepared to take on those risks with the proviso their employment chances will be greatly enhanced by having a worthwhile degree.

 

I have always hated the idea that some degrees are not 'worthwhile'.  It betrays a lack of understanding of Higher Education.

Some degrees are very occupationally specific, some aren't.  Some subjects such as Physics, Maths and so on are generally seen as 'hard' and therefore are seen as a measure of some sort of 'higher' intelligence.   But the bottom line is that ALL degree courses.. in order to gain Accreditation, are based around the idea of individual effort, creativity, critical thinking, and the ability to synthesise ideas and propositions from study.. rather than just regurgitating facts.  Yes.. some are more generally 'saleable' .. but all are worthwhile.

 

Some occupations have very specific Degree requirements. Some are open to graduates in any discipline.  There are no simple rules and the idea of 'worthwhile/not worthwhile courses is a myth.

 

12 hours ago, Brew said:

Allowing students onto courses they clearly can't cope with.

 

Who says they can't cope?  How is this clear?

 

12 hours ago, Brew said:

You don't recognize it but give examples?

I would not have expected you to take the view, 'you don't like it - move'. Do they really have a choice?

 

I don't recognise it to the extent that you do.  I don't think it is as big a problem as you claim.

 

12 hours ago, Brew said:

Almost by definition statistical data is out of date. My quote was a counter to the the private v state who does best argument, not meant to have relevance to the downgrading fiasco.

 

OK.

 

12 hours ago, Brew said:

True enough but how much use or relevance is having a degree in an esoteric subject?

 

I've already covered this but I'll try again.  Except in certain specific areas.. including mostly Science,  Engineering and other 'technical' subjects... the fact of having completed Higher Education is more relevant than the subject studied.  Apart from the few subjects I've mentioned and a few I've probably mised.. huge swathes of HE do not have occupationally specific relevance.  This is not new.  It has always been the case but is only now highlighted as more people become exposed to and form some opinion on HE.

What practical use are 'Classics', 'PPE', 'Economics', Sociology' etc.. etc..?  All are theooretical subjects with no verifiable 'answers'.  Yet large Nos of our politicians studied them.  The answer is that they are about ideas/the human condition etc.

 

12 hours ago, Brew said:

Which goes to the heart of the argument, we are both out of date, dinosaurs harking back to a time when things were different and comparing them to now. I am often asked which uni is best for a particular subject, Nottm or Trent. My answer is always the same, "how would I know"? 

 

Not really.  I know there are changes in A levels.. but the principles remain the same.  As for which uni is best for.. etc.  Back in the day.. we used books such as 'Which Degree? by Brian Heap.  He was a clever man.. but also an insufferable egotist and bore.  However.. he collated all the data anybody could want about every degree course in the UK.  Entry Requirements, Male/Female balance, post grad success.. etc. etc.  His stuff was based on facts and stats... not the 'jungle telegraph'.

But there are many other factors in Uni course choice.  Things such as distance from home, accomodation and other costs, etc., etc. all have a part to play.  I often suggested to students that they might consider going far enough away to escape their parents, but not so far as to make a trip home with a bag of dirty washing an impractical or too expensive proposition. 

 

12 hours ago, Brew said:

What are the choices? of course they go to the private sector, we don't have a viable alternative. Whether they are friend or foe politically is irrelevant.

 

No. That is not what I said.  They will always favour the Private Sector over the Public.  They sideline and ignore established expertise and competence in the Public Sector both from ideology, and in order to divert public money into private hands.  They would sooner choose a compay with no track record in a specific field.. or in the case of SERCO.. a company with no expertise or track record in ANY field.. than admit that the public sector has anything to offer.

 

12 hours ago, Brew said:

Imagine you're PM, you want a solution and you want it fast - who you gonna call? A world renowned designer? a huge manufacturing plant that's standing idle? or some obscure but politically correct collective? I would go for pragmatism over politics.

 

But that is not what they did! 

 

I'll leave it there..

[DJ360 6,721]

Just watched Joe Biden's address to the Democrats.  Very impressive.  I know he has his wobbles.  He's entitled at his age.. But he doesn't spout continual incoherent drivel like that racist, ignorant, petulant, childish Cretin (And yes. I mean Cretin..) that is Donald Trump.

He truly nailed the issues and called Trump to account.

 

Let's hope Trump is soon gone from office.. and hopefully in Gaol.

[letsavagoo 961]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Let's hope Trump is soon gone from office.. and hopefully in Gaol.

It’s a pity you weren’t the foreman when they built the Shirehall, Col.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/430164201899411708/

[benjamin1945 16,139]

Col. noticed you had a bit of a write ref Joe Biden yesterday.,,i do enjoy.(some) of you and Brew's exchanges,,don't comment very often it gets a bit too deep for me....Must admit the American Political scene really does 'grab me',,as i'm sure it does many others on here. For those of you interested the other sites ref this subject are,,, 1ST Amendment,,Young Turks,,Police the Police..,United States Constituion lovers,,and High Desert Community Watch....

                       Much of it deals with the attitudes of the American Police across many states,,surprising how many of them are uneducated,,untrained and generally pretty stupid,,,The Programmes are largely about a group of blokes that set set to test them on the American Constituitons,,and go out filming in places like 'Oil refineries' Post offices,,Tax offices and many businesses,,,testing the Staff,,Security and the Police,,,might not suit many on here but i'm sure it will a good few....

[Brew 5,408]

12 hours ago, DJ360 said:

It strikes me as reasonable that some students may use them as an indicator of their real knowledge.. without 'cramming'. That could give them a pointer as to where to put their revision effort. 

 

Perhaps your lack of experience leads to that view but from my own experience they were taken very seriously. The idea of using them as some sort of self measuring yardstick is not something I recognise.

 

11 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Who says they can't cope?

 

I see little difference between 'not coping' which you don't recognise and being 'out of their depth' which you do. On my last go round at Nottingham Trent there was a student from Derby who had no relevant qualifications but gained a place on the basis of his 'life experience'. This was the late 80's and there were few actual exams and no finals. He freely admitted most of the reading was beyond him, He went through to a 3rd mainly by his ability to copy and paste, something he was quite open about. With todays anti-plagiarism software he would never had made it.

 

11 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Which Degree? by Brian Heap

 

I've not read but know of it. Most questions about which is best in my experience do not mean which is the 'best' but rather which is easiest. In my case the choices were purely down to location

 

11 hours ago, DJ360 said:

What practical use are 'Classics', 'PPE', 'Economics', Sociology'

 

Maybe I'm not quite so in awe of those with a degree. Classics is quite frankly only good for teaching it to others and a few other obscure disciplines.  Some claim it demonstrates intellectual ability and so it does, but has little relevance in the real world. Economics and Sociology need little explaining to see their use and application.

 

11 hours ago, DJ360 said:

But that is not what they did! 

 

What did they do? It's exactly what they did! and what's more despite  investing quite considerable sums at least one made no charge to HMG.

 

11 hours ago, DJ360 said:

They sideline and ignore established expertise and competence in the Public Sector both from ideology, and in order to divert public money into private hands.

 

I'm struggling to think of any examples beyond the G4S/Serco fiasco. I don't really give much credence to the conspiracy theory of deliberately pushing money to friends in high paces. I'm not so naïve to think it never happens it does but not to the scale you imply.

------------------------------------------

 

Gotta go, I think the washing machine just blew up...

[Stuart.C 491]

39 minutes ago, benjamin1945 said:

 For those of you interested the other sites ref this subject are,,, 1ST Amendment,,Young Turks,,Police the Police..,United States Constituion lovers,,and High Desert Community Watch....

                       Much of it deals with the attitudes of the American Police across many states,,surprising how many of them are uneducated,,untrained and generally pretty stupid,,,

 

 

I've been on some of those sites, 1st Ammendment Auditors some of them like to call themselves.

Right to Open Carry (weapons) seems to cause a few incidents.

I accept they have gun laws but why you'd need to open carry a loaded AK47 is a real mystery to me.

 

There are some horrific events with the Police Wellness / Welfare check ending in fatality quite often.

 

It seems U.S Police spend 26 weeks training, the majority of that time is use of weapons, self defence and tactical driving.

Then they're given a Badge, (that used to give them full immunity to prosection for their actions but appears not to nowaday), a Gun and hundreds of rounds of ammunition and a car and are then expected to deal with the general public with no training for de-escalation.

[Brew 5,408]

12 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Just watched Joe Biden's address to the Democrats.  Very impressive.  I know he has his wobbles.  He's entitled at his age.. But he doesn't spout continual incoherent drivel like that racist, ignorant, petulant, childish Cretin (And yes. I mean Cretin..) that is Donald Trump.

He truly nailed the issues and called Trump to account.

 

Let's hope Trump is soon gone from office.. and hopefully in Gaol.

 

I'm not overly impressed. He seems fine with a carefully prepared and rehearsed speech, not so good in debating 'off the cuff' where he appears quite doddery. 

"Coal miners should learn to coded for jobs of the future"  Is a verbatim quote from a speech I watched. 

In a debate with NY mayor he contradicted himself, stumbled and seemed totally out of his depth but the Botox held up  well. 

 

The geriatric or the cretin?

 

It's a dismal choice for Americans .

[radfordred 6,284]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:27 PM, DJ360 said:

Hancock..our esteemed Health Secretary.. is about to announce the abolition of Public Health England.

 

What about monitoring you own health, eat less & exercise more? If you choose not to look after yourself you take the consequences 

[Brew 5,408]

It not about what he's abolishing RR it's more to do with what the devious turd is replacing it with and who's running it...

 

[DJ360 6,721]

Indeed.  More Taxpayer's money diverted to the Tories friends.  when will people wake up?

[DJ360 6,721]

Meanwhile.. in the USA....

 

What is wrong with US citizens?.. they have been fighting each other for a 150 years... at least.. Their basic approach seems to me to be.. 'I have the right.'  They seem a bit weaker on responsibilities...  So some idiot 17 year old kid ..who has access to weapons due to the US idiot Gun Laws kills two unarmed protesters who are protesting the shooting of an unarmed and non threatening black man.. IN THE BACK.. SEVEN TIMES.

 

That low life idiot Trump is now, very predictably... sending in the National Guard to stop protests. It doesn't seem to occur to him to condemn those who create this situation by murderiing blacks.  Kneeling on their necks.. shooting them SEVEN TIMES in the back.. etc.

 

A very sick society. which we are sadly increasingly mirroring...

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

That "idiot kid" was having his brains beat out by a thug with a skate board, while his comrade was walking towards him with a pistol pointing at him, All caught on video, the "idiot kid" had no choice, he shot the thug with the pistol in his right arm, then shot the thug beating his brains out with a skateboard, then shot another thug running to back the other thugs up who was going to shoot the "idiot" kid". WTF was he supposed to do, let them kill him???

[Beekay 5,134]

As per normal Ayeup, we only ever get half the story. Usually the bits they want you to see. B.

[Stuart.C 491]

The 17 year old, who was illegally in possession of the automatic rifle (underage), had already shot someone who threw a plastic bag at him before the person with the skate board was trying to disarm him and was killed.

 

There was phone video of this which was taken off Youtube while I was watching.

It didn't show what led up to the bag throwing or suggest what was in the bag.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

"Automatic rifle"??? Where did you get that info from??? It is almost impossible to get an automatic rifle! No new ones have been available for public purchase since around 1935.

AR15's are NOT automatic, semi yes, big difference.

To buy a used automatic rifle is a long drawn out expensive legal procedure, the costs can run into thousands of dollars and take up to two years to obtaining the annual renewable federal license, then the used weapon can be purchased through a federally licensed gun dealer from the seller.

Current used automatic weapons are pretty rare on the gun market and can cost many thousands of dollars each, then the weapon has to be registered with the BATF and the local police department, and an annual fee has to be paid to the BATF to maintain that license, ANY crime committed by the owner requires the handing over of both the license and the weapon to the authorities.

Modifications of ANY gun from semi to auto fetches very heavy penalties, including a long stay in a federal prison, and banned for life from owning or even having a firearm in your possession.

Age varies for firearm ownership state to state, in my state its 21 for a pistol and 18 for a long rifle...BUT, that doesn't stop a 17 year old from using a rifle or having one in his possession, just buying one. AS LONG as the 17 year old has no prior felonies!

So please don't believe everything you get from the media.

[letsavagoo 961]

10 hours ago, DJ360 said:So some idiot 17 year old kid ..who has access to weapons due to the US idiot Gun Laws kills two unarmed protesters who are protesting the shooting of an unarmed and non threatening black man.. IN THE BACK.. SEVEN TIMES.

I am currently due to personal circumstances not keeping up with the news and I do not have all the facts. The US police do seem very trigger happy but if I was in America and a police officer told me to stop and put my hands up you bet I’d do exactly that. If I was a black man in America and a police officer told me to stop and put my hands up I’d reach so high I’d touch the sky. Instantly and without question. Not saying it’s right, it’s not but the man was reaching into his car, not responding to repeated requests. Whose to say he wasn’t reaching for a gun. It’s not like there a shortage of them out there and The police do get shot. You’ve got to look at the wider picture. 

[Stuart.C 491]

48 minutes ago, Ayupmeducks said:

"Automatic rifle"??? Where did you get that info from??? It is almost impossible to get an automatic rifle! No new ones have been available for public purchase since around 1935.

AR15's are NOT automatic, semi yes, big difference.

 

 

 

 

O.K sorry then

It was described as an AR15 style semi automatic.

Presumably that's a gun that holds more ammunition than a normal gun and although legal for Open carry in some States is not a suitable weapon to be parading within a group of people the majority of whom are legally protesting.

 

The 17 year old has been charged by the Police

 

• First degree reckless homicide, use of a dangerous weapon
• First degree recklessly endangering safety, use of a dangerous weapon (two counts)
• First degree intentional homicide, use of a dangerous weapon
• Attempted first degree intentional homicide, use of a dangerous weapon
• Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 

[Brew 5,408]

One thing is certain trial by soundbite, newclips and those of us with little or no reliable information will see anything like the truth of the matter.

 

Black sympathisers and protestors will see the youth as a rabid rascist out to deliberatley kill someone. The opposition will see an out numberd white youth defending himself against rioters intent on doing him harm.

 

No one seems to have asked ask the question yet, "why was a 17yr old holding and marching through the streets brandishing an AR15"?  It's an assault rifle, it does what it says on the tin!

What was he doing there?  Why was he there? It's not as though he ran back to his house and grabbed a gun to defend hearth and home -  he lives a half hour drive away.

 

It was inexcusable  for a police officer to shoot a man in the back seven times  under any circusnatces. It speaks to me of fear, blind panic, lack of training and no self discipline.

At the time it was entirely reasonable, given it's America and the situation, to assume the man was reaching into the car for a weapon. That said until there was a clear and certain threat to life there was no need to open fire - doubly so with children in the car...

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Again you are 100% wrong, an AR15 is just a small calibre rifle, it depends what size magazine you put in it, and even with the largest magazine, it doesn't hold any more rounds than some of the higher calibre rifles.

My SKS can be modified  for clip in magazines that hold 30 or more rounds of similar size to the 30 calibre rifles, and believe more an SKS is a lot more deadly than a puny AR15 who's round is a tad bigger than a .22 cal.

The media has blown the AR15 up into the "Nuclear bomb" the gun owner can have...What a load of bollocks!! "scuse the French. The AR15 is just a small calibre rifle banned in most states for hunting deer, Why??? Because it usually leaves large game wounded instead of dead. It's not rated by gun owners as the best at anything, except target practice!!

If the guy who was threatening the kid with a pistol had taken a round in his arm from a 30 cal weapon instead of an AR15, chances are he'd have lost his arm.

My AR15 has 30 round mags, I can get smaller, but what good would that do me if I was attacked by a herd of feral pigs, I don't want to waste time changing out mags when a blood thirsty wild boar is bearing in on me, BUT, in say that, the AR15 bullets would only tickle a wild boar, I take the SKS usually if I want to walk my fields, then I know even if a bear decides I'm on the dinner menu that I can stop him.

 

2/ I hear all charges were dropped after the video appeared of the kid being beat around the head with a skateboard and the skateboard guys buddy's pistol pointing at the kid...