philmayfield 6,089 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 Distinct likeness! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philmayfield 6,089 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 ‘Take it or leave it’. I don’t think we have any alternative but to take it. It’s akin to leaving with a ‘deal’. It must be realised that for our own good we can’t just make a clean break. We need a close relationship with Europe and for that we have to make some financial contribution. We’re almost back to square one prior to the referendum. We should never have been pushed into this mess in the first place. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stavertongirl 1,713 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 Sorry but don’t see why a “close relationship” needs a financial contribution but then I am just one of the ill informed electorate. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philmayfield 6,089 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 The whole ‘Euro show’ requires a large bureaucracy to run it. It’s possibly too large and has become a gravy train for many. It should be pared down but there administration costs of running a European Parliament. We can’t be members of a club without paying our subscriptions. If we want to benefit from the trading advantages we’ve got to cough up. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stavertongirl 1,713 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 If (and it looks increasingly unlikely) we leave we aren’t members of the club. You don’t leave say the AA but still contribute towards their running costs. Those in the European Parliament should pay for it not us if we have left. Sorry if this seems a bit simplistic but if you ain’t in it you don’t pay for it. Looks like we may have to agree to differ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,380 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 There is talk, talk , talk about a 'deal' until all they are doing is going round in circles. Does anyone know what the 'deal' is? Have details ever been published? Are the terms worth all this palaver? There is a lot of crying that a 'no deal' was not on the ballot paper whilst in fact there was no mention of terms at all. How could there be when the result was unknown or an agreement was reached with Brussels in advance? Edit: There was suppose to be dropbox file here but old age and stupidity conspired to defeat me.. Johnson is showing his contempt for Parliament and the people. Corbyn is a glaring hypocrite. Some Scots smell blood and are trying to manoeuvre for another independence referendum. The Northern Irish know they hold a good hand and are looking to elicit a promise of direct rule. Dublin realise they are the solution and want a move towards reunification. The Welsh are hinting at 'civil disobedience'... and there is probably more to come as the wheels keep falling off the wagon that was once the United Kingdom 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,380 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Stavertongirl said: If (and it looks increasingly unlikely) we leave we aren’t members of the club. You don’t leave say the AA but still contribute towards their running costs. Those in the European Parliament should pay for it not us if we have left. Sorry if this seems a bit simplistic but if you ain’t in it you don’t pay for it. Looks like we may have to agree to differ. I think part of it SG is if we make a contribution then the tariffs they impose on trade will not be as high as those if we don't. Then again I may be totally wrong, as I said earlier we have no idea what we're talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stavertongirl 1,713 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Brew said: Then again I may be totally wrong, as I said earlier we have no idea what we're talking about. Dont think anyone does including those at Westminster. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonab 1,644 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 I've just read on a local news website that Blobby junior - the PM's brother Jo has stepped down as an MP. Is that so? Rats? Sinking ships? End of the World? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philmayfield 6,089 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 ‘Unresolvable tension’ in the family apparently. It’s like that every day here! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stuart.C 483 Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 Boris, his Dad, Brother (the MP ) and Sister (the journalist) all have differing Political views. no mention of his Mum's or other Brother's views. (portrait painter) Must be fun at Xmas Family dinner. Turkey? NO, Chicken. NO, Ham NO, Pork NO Meat His Mum; 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ360 6,712 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Didn't realise this had turned into a horror thread.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ360 6,712 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 21 hours ago, Brew said: There is talk, talk , talk about a 'deal' until all they are doing is going round in circles. Does anyone know what the 'deal' is? Have details ever been published? Are the terms worth all this palaver? There is a lot of crying that a 'no deal' was not on the ballot paper whilst in fact there was no mention of terms at all. How could there be when the result was unknown or an agreement was reached with Brussels in advance? Well Brew, I'm nearly as much in the dark as you. especially over the details... but I'd put it this way... After 40 years plus.. we have built up all sorts of agreements and arrangements over trade, security, 'freedom of movement' etc. They cannot, in any practical sense be just 'stopped' or abandoned on a single date. The result would be chaos for all concerned. Everything would be potentially affected. So.. what we need to do is strike a 'deal', which sets up the transition arrangements so that we resolve all of those issues in a grown up.. orderly way. And that will take time. At the same time.. we will need to agree new trading and other arrangements with the EU. In my view, Brexiters need to get over themselves and understand that we have some sort of arrangements with practically every other country on the planet, arrived at over time by negotiation and agreement. The EU is no different.. and portraying the EU as some sort of monster which is trying to keep us in its clutches and bleed us dry is pure fairy story stuff. All this talk of a 'clean break' may play well to those who like things made simple but it really is fantasy. Brexiters would also do well to remember that we had trade and other arrangements with the EU before we joined..so again.. a 'clean break' is just fantasy and a return to some sort of mythical 'Splendid Isolation' is just a ludicrous proposition. All of which moves us onto the role of Parliament. Last night.. yet again, we saw members of the public and also that idiot Tice 'Chairman' of the Brexit Party.. attacking 'Parliamentarians' as if they were somehow the 'enemy of the people'. This is dangerous talk. People need to understand that we live in a Parliamentary Democracy which has protected us from being dictated to by Kings, and others (including Boris Johnson, Napoleon and Hitler) for 800 years. A couple of last nights 'Question Time' 'guests' did try to point out that we live in a Parliamentary Democracy.. not some sort of political jungle or inter tribal free for all, but they did not spell it out. Putting it another way. The Democracy enshrined in and defended by Parliament and the constitution, trumps the 'democracy' which some like to claim attaches to a single narrow victory in a flawed referendum after a campaign of blatant lies and misinformation. It was Parliament which agreed to the Referendum, Parliament which invoked Article 50, and it is Parliament which is ensuring that if we must leave the EU. we do so on the best possible terms. Parliament is NOT blocking.. or trying to reverse Brexit. Parliament is doing its job, of ensuring that whatever happens, this country is protected from minorities such as those who want to force a 'no deal' Brexit. Those who support Boris Johnson and see him as some sort of 'Messiah', are entitled to their view, but need to recognise that he is running a minority government in which he barely has the support of his own party, much less the rest of Parliament or the country. It is therefore Parliament's role to ensure the safety and well being of the population until things are sorted out. Johnson, his government and his party, like all other governments and parties.. are transitory. Parliament isn't.. and has kept us pretty much safe for 800 years. You undermine Parliament at your peril. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Actually Col, despite us both being at opposite ends of the political spectrum, I enjoyed reading that, as it was completely understandable and calmly written. It makes complete sense not to sever all ties, but as you say, it's utterly impossible. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,380 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 I rather think you preaching to the converted here Col. A 'deal' however can be anything from changing the colour of our passport covers to a full trade agreement. The sticking point everyone is banging the drum about is the Irish backstop and hard border, but what's in the rest of it? Are there other points stopping the exit making progress? Do we have an agreement on tariffs, free movement, CE conformity etc. and if so what are they? As you say 40 years of integration will take some dismantling, what are we losing? (I can't see any gains) how much of a contribution is the EU demanding. The whole thing is long on rhetoric but short on detail.............. Got to go, may visit this later... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,108 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Exactly Brew, I can't see anyone changing their mind at this late stage in the proceedings. We're all too deeply entrenched in our long standing views and opinions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ360 6,712 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 I'm not trying to change anyone's view on Brexit, but we really can't just walk away. It's not that simple. Mainly though I think it is very dangerous for extremists like Tice, Farage and even Johnson to encourage people in attacking Parliament. Lose Parliament and we are truly stuffed. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stavertongirl 1,713 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 I think it will become a never ending story whether we leave or stay as the side that loses out will then start campaigning to go back in/leave all over again. It has made me seriously think about voting and whether it is worth it in the long run. No doubt there will be howls of protest “every vote counts” etc but you never seem to get what you thought you were voting for except possibly in local elections. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidA 153 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 The current shambles is sickening, but the only way to drain the swamp is by voting. When the opposition allows it of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,380 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Dear old Comrade Corbyn has done himself no favours at all. He ranted on for so long about 'let the people decide', 'we're ready for an election'... blah blah blah. the when he's given the opportunity he turn tail and runs! As you say, a shambles, totally and utterly. We've gone from a respected, if not exactly liked, nation to an absolute laughing stock. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brew 5,380 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 5 hours ago, Stavertongirl said: every vote counts” I'm wondering if that little mantra is true now days. In future if the government want to pass an unpopular bill they'll just close up shop and tell us it's legal, above board, for our own good and what a rotten lot we are not to be grateful. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ360 6,712 Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 6 hours ago, DavidA said: The current shambles is sickening, but the only way to drain the swamp is by voting. When the opposition allows it of course. Drain the swamp? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ360 6,712 Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, DJ360 said: Drain the swamp? And of course the opposition is perfectly entitled to prevent a minority Govt from imposing its will on the majority. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HSR 286 Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 8:41 AM, philmayfield said: He's behind the scenes manipulating Mister Blobby! Didn't he..Blobby not Edmund's end up in a skip at the Beeb looking very deflated? Rescued by a member of the public? Wonder if they have skips at the Parliment.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonab 1,644 Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 They don't need skips. The Thames is there to carry all of the ordure that they produce in Westminster. However, the way things seem to be going at the moment, even that mighty river may not be capacious enough. I remember a rallying call of the 1960s indesirables: Come the revolution!! Might be usefully resurrected now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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