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At least they finally acknowledge one out of many.. but they still claim an innocent 'mistake'.  Yeah right.. just like the 'mistake' when Johnson laid a wreath upside down at the Cenotaph and the BB went and found a years old film of him accidentally getting it right and broadcast that instead... by mistake...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50546115

 

 

 

 

 

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HSR: Col is given a 'free rein to spout his opinions' for exactly the reasons you are, only he does so with more civility.   Recently there have been a couple of attacks on the validity of t

True enough but none quite so 'in your face' or as blatant. To paraphrase Mone "I didn't lie to hide the the fact we're making £60 million and hiding it in a trust, it was to to protect my family

Why do you feel the need to influence others? What is your motivation for so doing? Is it because you think you know better than they? Is it because it feeds your ego if and when you succeed?  Is it b

 

Interesting viewpoint on the state of Capitalism in the UK.  And no.. it's not just a lefty diatribe!!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50562518

 

It ceretainly picks up on several issues I'm concerned about.. but in the present climate I don't expect it to see the light of day.

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3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Interesting viewpoint on the state of Capitalism in the UK.

 

I agree with most of it and have always considered shareholders have very little say unless they hold a sizable percentage.

Some companies take Friedman to the nth degree and eschew any sense of corporate responsibility beyond legal requirements. In the 80's the buzz word for business was 'mission statements',  then came 'stakeholders' and now we have 'visions'. Meaningless buzz words that the pursuit of profit hides behind.

 

Will it see the light of day? Would it make difference if it did?  You may gather a few moans and groans but within a few days it will be gone the same as the outcry about big salaries and bonuses for failure.

 

I do not agree though that Corbyn is suggesting a better way. The only industries that should have never been privatised are Water and Electric, two of which have just buggered off to Switzerland to escape his clutches. 

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I see that a tory election candidate is being investigated by the police for a 'hate crime', after telling a Sikh rival that he was 'talking through his turban' at a hustings event. Let that be an object lesson; the correct, legal expression is 'talking through his arse'. 

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43 minutes ago, ValuerJim said:

I see that a tory election candidate is being investigated by the police for a 'hate crime', after telling a Sikh rival that he was 'talking through his turban' at a hustings event. Let that be an object lesson; the correct, legal expression is 'talking through his arse'. 

 

I've just read the article and it's makes for very sad reading. We can't mention turbans now without bringing down the full weight of the law. The Tories are now automatically guilty (according to the Labour candidate) of racism if, when receiving a complaint, they do not immediately deselect, expel and strip any honours earned. No waiting for the result of any inquiry, no sir, guilty as charged straight away.  I wonder how far a complaint would go if the Sikh had accused his opponent of talking through his hat?

 

This, in my  mind, is reverse racism. The Sikh is taking advantage of his opponent  being a Caucasian and daring to mention his turban. Note the accusation is racism, not a religious hate crime. He's using an off the cuff remark to blow it up out of all proportion trying to score points and discredit the Tory party and their candidate..

Comes under the heading 'low blows and dirty tricks' IMHO 

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37 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

Easy meat for the police. Beats having to face up to serious criminals any day.

 

True, no door knocking, legwork, expense or detectives required.  Just some office junior to fill in a form and off to the CPS.... next.

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No and no... I find it easier to pick holes when I read it rather than listening to a speech. I'm slowing down and struggle to bring facts and figures to mind without having think for awhile.

I wold love a pint in the Trip, it would bring back many memories. Unfortunately it would also bring back any and  all food eaten in the previous few hours.

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I would have gone to see him if I still lived in Nottm.  As I've said many times..he wouldn't be my first choice as Labour Leader.. but I'd sooner see Labour in power.. trying to get us closer to my idea of an ideal society.. than Boris Johnson playing lap dog to Trump and finishing this country off for good.

 

I genuinely cannot believe the number of previous Labour voters who would sooner vote for a party which wants to screw them and is led by a lying thieving crook like Johnson, than for a Labour Party led by Corbyn.

 

I also cannot believe the number of honest ( but obviously wrong..  ;) ) Conservative voters.. who are willing to have an Olympic Standard liar and buffoon as their party leader.

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4 minutes ago, Brew said:

No and no... I find it easier to pick holes when I read it rather than listening to a speech. I'm slowing down and struggle to bring facts and figures to mind without having think for awhile.

I wold love a pint in the Trip, it would bring back many memories. Unfortunately it would also bring back any and  all food eaten in the previous few hours.

 

Well Brew.. you have my genuine sympathy if a pint has that effect.  In my case, it would be listening to an endless stream of bumbling lies and waffle from Johnson that would most likely do that.  Love or hate Corbyn.. he does not lie.

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34 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

 

Well Brew.. you have my genuine sympathy if a pint has that effect.  In my case, it would be listening to an endless stream of bumbling lies and waffle from Johnson that would most likely do that.  Love or hate Corbyn.. he does not lie.

 

Sadly it's true. I can feel the effect of a half pint, 3/4 and I'm not fit to drive. A pint or a pint and half and I am unwell.

 

'Corbyn does not lie', raises an interesting conundrum. If someone makes a statement and believes it, but it is in fact wrong - is it a lie?

Does he truly believe the impossibly large sums of money he and McDonnell want to spend are going to benefit the country and not leaves in debt for years to come? Or is it just so much hot air and few if any of the promises will come about.

 

The buffoon at least has sense to not follow him in what is a seemingly stupid and unrealistic bidding war that has even dragged Jo Swinson in.

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1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

I genuinely cannot believe the number of previous Labour voters who would sooner vote for a party which wants to screw them and is led by a lying thieving crook like Johnson, than for a Labour Party led by Corbyn.

 

All I can say is they have watched, listened, learned and made the right choice. Many of them may well be saying they cannot believe those who can't see through Corbyn, McDonnell, Momentum etc. and the fact they want to lead us into penury for the next half century or so.

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I could only ever vote Labour, but I’m struggling with the leading players, I do believe we could become a Muslim country under Corbyn & his little gang :Shock: So I have looked at my local candidates & what they’ve done in the past & what they stand for, Lilian Greenwood got my postal vote cross, its sealed I will decide on whether I post it on the 10th or the 13th of December.

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RR, I can understand some disquiet about Corbyn even if I don't believe it.. but your claim about Muslims is just daft.

 

 The Muslim population of the UK is under 5%, so how you see that turning us into a Muslim state at all beats me.. but how you work out that this would happen under Corbyn ?  Tell us more..

 

Not even all states which have Muslim majorities are Muslim states..

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11 hours ago, Brew said:

 

All I can say is they have watched, listened, learned and made the right choice. Many of them may well be saying they cannot believe those who can't see through Corbyn, McDonnell, Momentum etc. and the fact they want to lead us into penury for the next half century or so.

 

National debt % of GDP

Lab Govt
1997-37.6
1998-35.6
1999-34.3
2000-29.6
2001-28.5
2002-29.5
2003-30.4
2004-33.3
2005-34.5
2006-35.0
2007-35.7
Financial Crisis
2008-47.3
2009-60.2
Tory Govt
2010-70.3
2011-74.8
2012-78.2
2013-80.4
2014-83.3
2015-83.4
2016-84.5
2017-84.8
2018-83.3

 

 

You were saying?  ;)

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6 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

The Muslim population of the UK is under 5%

Are these actual figures, or government figures?

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Why do you ask?

 

Take your pick: 

 

I posted the figure from here:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

If you go to Fig 9 in this Govt report.. the figures are similar.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/researchreportonpopulationestimatesbyethnicgroupandreligion/2019-12-04#population-estimates-by-religion

 

More accessible but older info here.  Scroll to Fig 1.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/articles/religioninenglandandwales2011/2012-12-11

 

So I think it's reasonable to go with a figure of approx 5%.  Of course there are pockets where the local figure is much higher.. and others where it is much lower.  A bit like the way that there are pockets of ex-pat Brits all over the World.

 

 

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The reason for asking, if you listen to the political side of a question, you will hear what "they" want you to hear, until that is, they get caught out or put on their back foot and then they will divert the question.

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2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

You were saying? 

 

I know what I said, I have no idea what you're saying! Maybe I'm being thick but a list of dates and % of GDP mean what exactly? Pointing out the the debt ratio is rising only reinforces my point that adding to it is financial suicide.

 

I would also point out that although the ratio was fairly stable under Labour until the crisis. During the time they were in power  after the crash (2008/9) the ratio ran out of control, (68% increase) thanks to Browns  mismanagement. The rate of increase under the Tories is only single figures. 

 

Corbyn/McDonnells plans are for the for the biggest borrowing spree in history.  Some estimate it could be as high as 1.2 TRILION!  (£1,200,000,000,000)

Even with a conservative estimate the figures are at least ten times the cost of what we spent, begged, or borrowed to pay for WW2 and that took 61 years for us to pay back.

Extrapolating it could take us 600 years to pay for Corbyns plans which is clearly nonsense.

Maybe those ex Labour voters have woken up to see the lies for what they are.

 

Edit:

I've just had a thought, a way he can get elected with a landslide and not have to spend all that money. All he has to to do is give everybody in the country a  million pounds each. We're all happy, he gets into number 10 and it only cost 65 million - cheap as chips! It's not a lie, I've costed it all out and it's a credible plan - honest!

 

The fly in the ointment of course is the fact he hates anyone with more than a few quid in the bank and now the people are  rich he will take it all back with his new rich gits tax.

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28 minutes ago, Brew said:

 

Edit:

I've just had a thought, a way he can get elected with a landslide and not have to spend all that money. All he has to to do is give everybody in the country a  million pounds each. We're all happy, he gets into number 10 and it only cost 65 million - cheap as chips! It's not a lie, I've costed it all out and it's a credible plan - honest!

 

Are there only 65 people in the country?  :Shock:

 

I'll be back...  :)

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

Are there only 65 people in the country? 

 

Oops... 65 billion but still cheap as chips...

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Easy to attack Abbot.  She has health issues.

 

7 hours ago, Brew said:

I know what I said, I have no idea what you're saying! Maybe I'm being thick but a list of dates and % of GDP mean what exactly? Pointing out the the debt ratio is rising only reinforces my point that adding to it is financial suicide.

 

Debt rose for a reason under Brown.. as he fought to mitigate the effects of the crash caused by international speculation and idiocy. Depends on the debt.. the interest and the reason for borrowing.  If, as seems the case with the Tories for the last 10 years.. you are borrowing to pay the Gas Bill.. while you give yourself a Tax Break and run down Public Services.. then borrowing is stupid and ultimately self defeating.

 

7 hours ago, Brew said:

I would also point out that although the ratio was fairly stable under Labour until the crisis. During the time they were in power  after the crash (2008/9) the ratio ran out of control, (68% increase) thanks to Browns  mismanagement. The rate of increase under the Tories is only single figures. 

 

Brown saved your savings from banks going bust.  He is generally acknowledged to have acted correctly to remedy a situation which he did not create.  Yes.. he borrowed.. but with a clear purpose... not to give tax cuts to his cronies, but to save banks from impoverishing ordinary people.

 

7 hours ago, Brew said:

Corbyn/McDonnells plans are for the for the biggest borrowing spree in history.  Some estimate it could be as high as 1.2 TRILION!  (£1,200,000,000,000)

Even with a conservative estimate the figures are at least ten times the cost of what we spent, begged, or borrowed to pay for WW2 and that took 61 years for us to pay back.

Extrapolating it could take us 600 years to pay for Corbyns plans which is clearly nonsense.

Maybe those ex Labour voters have woken up to see the lies for what they are.

 

You are still looking at it as a 'household economy' issue.  A household which borrows to make up for insufficient income /excessive spending will of course go under.  But we are not talking households.. we are talking national economies. Borrowing is cheap and you know as well as I do that this country's services and infrastructure have been starved of cash while the Tories continued to award themselves tax cuts, steal our family silver and borrow just to keep things going.  Where has the borrowed money gone?  They have also lost our 'Triple A' international credit rating and generally crippled our economy. They have made this worse via their driving of Brexit.  They are.. as you well know.. and have previously acknowledged..a bunch of crooks.

 

Let's take it from the point of view of a household which borrows to invest. rather than borrowing to pay the bills.  Such a household might take a mortgage and borrow in order to invest in a property.  When they've done so.. they don't have to pay rent and they end up with an asset which has value... most likely in excess of what they paid.  Surely you can see that Corbyn's intention is to do exactly the same.. To invest in our country for the benefit of industry. of business, of workers and the whole 'shebang'.  A productive workforce, earning decent wages.. which will pay more in tax and will support an invigorated national economy and infrastructure.  This of course being a totally different approach to the current Tory approach of keeping the masses down.. while carving up what's left of the country's assets for their own benefit as they impose 'managed decline' on us all.

 

Time to take sides.  I know where my vote is going.

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2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Debt rose for a reason under Brown..

 

Yes and for good reasons but we seem to have conveniently forgotten that he would have needed to borrow a much much more if he hadn't robbed the ordinary workers pension funds, putting an end to final salary schemes thus forcing people into the hands of greedy insurance companies.

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Brown saved your savings from banks going bust.  He is generally acknowledged to have acted correctly to remedy a situation which he did not create.

 

Strange how time presents things differently. Gordon Brown in a speech the the Institute for New Economic Thinking (2008) admitted making a 'big mistake',  'misunderstood the complexity' and accepted responsibility whilst saying he was not the only one who cocked it up (those are my words, the rest are his).

He did not apologise for selling most of our gold reserves, or doubling our debt, or creating huge black holes in the pension funds. And no, he did not save the world.

 

So where has the money the Tories  borrowed gone, where is the infrastructure? Well we have HS2, you may not like it but like Crossrail it's taking a big chunk of change. Of course the poor old City council is suffering form lack of funds yet still managed to buy a multi-million white elephant that's losing almost a million pounds a WEEK!

 

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

You are still looking at it as a 'household economy' issue.

 

Looking at economics from a household view is quite valid, only the scale changes and might be the dose of common sense that Corbyn needs. Somewhere along the line macro economics decided two plus two no longer equalled four and Micawber was wrong. I understand you think we have moved on but we haven't. Simply because a principle was established a long time ago does not make it invalid.

 

Where it as simple as you think we would all be borrowing to invest, we would all be business, property or investment portfolio holders. The little word missing is risk, it's a wager. 

People know better than to  borrow more than they can afford in the hope of seeing rainbows in twenty odd years. Most people have the  sense not to gamble with their kids future.

The majority of us put away our rose coloured glasses when we saw the previous results of Labours time in power. 

It's not government money he wants to spend, it's the taxpayers so guess who picks up the tab when Labours boom becomes bust as it surely will.

 

He and his cronies think that squeezing big business till the pips squeak will generate the billions he needs. It will raise some but nowhere near as much as he thinks. National Grid and SSE have already moved to Switzerland, Aviva have moved to Ireland. Airbus, Barclays, Honda and many more have moved offshore with even more indicating a readiness to go.

 

Am I oversimplifying things? yes of course I am but no more than Corbyn with his simplistic plans to buy us a golden ticket to Utopia

 

I really fail to see why Labours  pie in the sky policies attract any support at all. Anyone with an ounce of sense must see most of his proposals will never happen. You think he's honest, I think a better word is deluded.

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