Anything Political

[Brew 5,404]

We do need to move forward, but not by forgetting the past. 

I do not suggest we forget but unless we learn to let go we are stuck in the past

but that didn't mean we wrote  off the actions of the Nazis or stopped pursuing the worst offenders. 

Nazis! Really?

 

It will be a long time before I forget that the population of the UK was punished by the Tories, for the actions of a small number of rogue bankers, who not only went, but remain, unpunished for their nefarious actions which caused a World economic crisis. 

A small number of rogues got away … with what exactly? What nefarious actions did they take that should have landed them in court - but didn’t. Which laws were broken?

 

Punishment means retribution for wrong doing. What on earth do you imagine the population did that warranted being ‘punished’?

 

It will be a long time before I forget that those same banks which were happy to receive huge sums of public money to 'rescue' them from the results of their own greed, and whose senior execs walked away scot free from their criminal actions, are now dragging their feet when asked to return the favour to UK business.

We need to recognise it was not a small group of bankers who gained millions in bonuses whilst causing the crash. It was a global situation that got out of hand. Nor  was it  just banks, insurance companies, pension funds etc. all jumped on the bandwagon, then found they couldn’t get off when they realised the debts were bad. It's also a blindingly obvious lesson that you can't keep borrowing to get out of debt and deficit spending is not the universal panacea some think.

 It was the American Congress refusal to sanction the bank bailout bill that caused the crash and now you are angry that banking criteria has changed in order to prevent exactly the same situation happening again.

 

It will be a long time before I forget that the Tories used the 2008 crash as an excuse not only for Austerity, but for an assault on public services, welfare the NHS,

 

2008… it was Labour in charge and the time when Gordon Brown came to the rescue  and saved the world… As a result the Tories austerity programme was almost a forgone conclusion after Brown emptied the coffers before being thrown out on his ear.

 

It will be a long time before I forget that they further attempted to cover their tracks by setting UK society against itself, with their despicable lies about benefits and benefit claimants..

 

I can’t defend Universal Credit; I don’t actually know that much about it. I’m not convinced though it’s a deliberate policy to punish the poor and needy.

 

Were ‘benefit scroungers’ invented to sway public opinion? Maybe they were I don’t know. I do know Blairs 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' and 'launched in 40 minutes' were lies… I wonder which lie cost us more.

 

It will be a long time before I forget the deliberate stirring of Xenophobia and Racism as the Tories quietly stoked the myths around EU Migrant Workers and failed to clearly delineate the categories of immigrant, migrant, worker, scrounger, legal, illegal etc.  It all suited their agenda and reached a high point of vacuous immorality with May's 'Hostile Environment'.. to which were added the Windrush Scandal and the shameful failure to act over Grenfell. 

There were Xenophobic comments but research has shown instances were actually few and far between and quickly dropped. It also true that remainers claimed there would Sangatte style camps in Kent.

It’s totally wrong to blame the Tories alone as you well know and at least a third of Tory MP’s voted remain.

Until the Grenfell report is published we don’t know if there was a failure to act, shameful or otherwise and we should not prejudge or start a witch-hunt looking for a scapegoat.

 

It was not Brexit which split Britain.  It was the Tories and their even more extreme funders and fellow travellers who split Britain..enabling Brexit. 

Actually it was and the argument had been grumbling on for years under both Tory and Labour. There were lies from both camps and as the PM of Luxemburg said " the whole referendum was based on lies". As for extreme funding the leave campaign actually spent £6 million less than remain (Electoral commission figures).

 

Is the NHS underfunded? Yes, but not just as a result of Tory austerity. It has been so under every government since its inception. 

I disagree.  And this is why....  All previous Govt.s even under Thatcher maintained funding for the NHS at or around inflation.  

Difficult question to answer given that the facts don’t actually bear you out. There were huge falls in 1967/68, 1974/78, 1980/87…..  '74/78  both parties were responsible and it was the blessed Margaret that started to increase funding again. It dropped again when Blair came to power. Then we have the old politicians saw, ‘in real terms’ which is a brilliant piece of misdirection used by all sides and designed  to muddy the waters.

 

I agree we were always likely to be overwhelmed.. but we were in a particularly weak position because of Tory cuts and NHS staff are dying as a result.

I don’t think that statement can de defended. Given that it’s almost impossible make accurate comparisons I can’t agree we were weaker than other health services

 

ALMOST ALL OF THE NHS AND SOCIAL CARE STAFF WHO HAVE DIED AS A DIRECT RESULT OF TREATING VICTIMS OF CORONAVIRUS, HAVE BEEN OF BLACK OR ASIAN ORIGIN. 

Your source for that?  There is a report that claims Asian and Afro/Caribeans have disproportionate death rates, I didn't see any mention of NHS staff  and simply extrapolating the figures would not necessarily make the claim valid.

 

Also interesting that Germany still has low death rates and the Govt. 'panel' squirmed when asked about this today.  They are stalling.. as they have been for weeks..

Somewhere up there ^^ I said it’s difficult to compare health systems. Comparing German figures with UK figures is comparing apples with oranges. The two systems are not the same, their funding is totally different and so are the reporting methodologies.

Are the spokespeople stalling? Or hesitating whilst trying to answer honestly, without guessing because there is no clear answer at the moment?

  

Yes, it was a 'sharing' scheme But Boris and his mates made a 'knee jerk' anti EU response and we lost a potentially valuable source of kit. Another opportunity missed through arrogance.

To call it knee jerk and arrogance is pure exaggeration unless you were privy to all the factors taken into consideration when the decision was made

 

I'm saying that spending and borrowing to the level announced by Sunak in the budget.. would have been slagged off by the Tories if proposed by Labour. ..and I stand by that.

 

I’ve not seen any Labour analysis of the budget that specifically criticisers where the money is to be spent. And I stand my reversal theory. The Tory spending plans were at least specific and not pie in the sky. Maybe they are bad, who knows and we are not likely to find out now.

To Labours delight the virus is like manna from heaven and has placed the Tories  in a very precarious position (we could be in for an even bigger crash than 2008). The damage to the economy caused by Covid is likely to wreck the spending plans and give an open goal to Starmer and the yah boo merchants.

 

Nobody is suggesting testing the general population, but surely you see the logic.. once the spread is under control.. of targeting 'hotspots' with testing? 

How do you find a hotspot without mass testing?

 

The alternative is to...

To shield everyone from contact with the virus until a vaccine is produced. The lockdown is not tight enough

 

[PeverilPeril 3,279]

Brilliant stuff on here with DJ and Brew debating politics without slagging each other off. Quality argument and I am enjoying it blow by blow. And now Alpha is joining in! 

For my pennarth, Starmer is OKish but is he the man of stature that we need so badly?

I hope that Boris makes a complete recovery soon - I don't like him but he is a leader - our leader. We need a leader and the guys in his wake only appear to be 'yes men'. Assuming that Boris recovers it will take a while for him to be well enough to resume duties as PM. We need some experience to step up as temporary leader - Haig, May, Clarke? Definately not Cameron! - I will never forgive that man. But then again - he may be just the man? Redemption?

The cosy school of yes people won't allow any of that though.

[Brew 5,404]

An alternative? I don't think I would actually go for an ex leader. How about Hancock? he seems to have kept his hands clean, has a good grasp of economics and I can't see any skeletons in his cupboard providing we discount his advisor role to Osbourne. The downside he's not a 'strong' candidate, his campaigns have all so far been fairly innocuous and safe - litter, broadband etc..

 

Priti Patel...….    OK fair enough... sorry...

 

Micheal Gove anyone? no... OK moving on.. 

 

Without looking can anyone name the rest of the cabinet?

 

As PP notes they are typical faceless yes men and quite frankly I don't any as leader. We seem to have nothing but dullards on both sides...

Get well soon Boris..

 

 

[DJ360 6,721]

10 hours ago, Brew said:

It will be a long time before I forget that the population of the UK was punished by the Tories, for the actions of a small number of rogue bankers, who not only went, but remain, unpunished for their nefarious actions which caused a World economic crisis. 

A small number of rogues got away … with what exactly? What nefarious actions did they take that should have landed them in court - but didn’t. Which laws were broken?

 

Punishment means retribution for wrong doing. What on earth do you imagine the population did that warranted being ‘punished’?

 

The population did nothing to warrant punishment.  Which was exactly my point.  British people, mostly the poorer ones, British institutions, public services etc.,etc were all severely damaged by Austerity.  Austerity was what exactly?  I'll tell you.  It was all but indiscriminate cuts to services etc., and an excuse to try to flog off every last thing which was publicly owned.  Tories selling things they did not own, to themselves.. for profit. Nauseating.

 

10 hours ago, Brew said:

 

2008… it was Labour in charge and the time when Gordon Brown came to the rescue  and saved the world… As a result the Tories austerity programme was almost a forgone conclusion after Brown emptied the coffers before being thrown out on his ear.

 

This is fantasy. True, Brown spent millions rescuing the Banks, but that did not mean there was no money or credit left.  That was just a convenient excuse for the Tory attacks on the Welfare State and other institutions which they are desperate to get rid of so they can turn the UK into a USA clone.  It is so blindingly obvious that I really am puzzled people can't see it.

 

10 hours ago, Brew said:

Were ‘benefit scroungers’ invented to sway public opinion? Maybe they were I don’t know. I do know Blairs 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' and 'launched in 40 minutes' were lies… I wonder which lie cost us more.

 

 

Of course 'benefit scroungers' were invented. All evidence from Govt. shows that benefit fraud is vanishingly small in the scheme of things and represents far less than the mount of benefiits which go unclaimed. The press was full of this tripe throughout Camoron's tenure.  A deliberate 'divide and rule' tactic, ably assisted by the Daily Mail.  Possibly the worst example was when the Daily Mail referred to the case of Mick Phillpot from Derby, who was a genuine self proclaimed scrounger and finally murderer of six of his children.  The DM stated 'There Are Thousands Like Him Out There'.  A sickening misuse of press power.

which I complained about , but I got only the usual platitudes in return.

Blair was of course wrong on WMD.. I have no idea what he was about..how much he was in thrall to the US etc., and how much he was really conned by his own 'advisers'.  There was also the case of the poor chap who topped himself (apparently) in some woods. WTF was that all about?

 

Of course which cost 'us' most, very much depends on how you look at it.  Military costs of the war? I don't know.  UK personnel?  Very regrettable but at least they all joined up willingly.

Those on benefits who saw their meagre support withdrawn, or had the indignity of a 'fitness for work' review etc?

I've said before I worked with families where mother was almost certainly a rape victim , of limited 'capability', trying to raise a child, of limited ability, supported by a sick Grandmother, who also contended with an Alzheimer's suffering Grandfather and all falling through the gaps in a cruel system of benefits. Dog lovers wouldn't see this done to their Canines. There But For Fortune indeed.

10 hours ago, Brew said:

I don’t think that statement can de defended. Given that it’s almost impossible make accurate comparisons I can’t agree we were weaker than other health services

 

We had NHS crying out for more money for years and that only to cover 'normal' UK health issues.  Tories were year on year keeping NHS budgets below inflation.  How can you even think about denying this?  Irrespective of international comparisons..Our NHS was all but on its knees before this crisis and that was entirely down to Tory cuts, coupled with their desperation to get their hands on all that luvverly NHS money.  You can't see this?  Really?

 

10 hours ago, Brew said:

ALMOST ALL OF THE NHS AND SOCIAL CARE STAFF WHO HAVE DIED AS A DIRECT RESULT OF TREATING VICTIMS OF CORONAVIRUS, HAVE BEEN OF BLACK OR ASIAN ORIGIN. 

Your source for that?  There is a report that claims Asian and Afro/Caribeans have disproportionate death rates, I didn't see any mention of NHS staff  and simply extrapolating the figures would not necessarily make the claim valid.

 

You are confusing the vulnerability of Black and Asian people in general.. which does seem to be 'a thing'.. with the actual numbers of Black and Asian Doctors, Nurses and Care workers who are reported to have died from CV acquired whilst treating others.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8175309/The-three-British-doctors-killed-coronavirus.html

 

I think the above is now at least four.

 

In other news at least one Black nurse, one Black Care Worker have died.

 

Two white nurses to my knowledge.

 

These are not definitive stats, but they at least say something and my point is made.

 

10 hours ago, Brew said:

To call it knee jerk and arrogance is pure exaggeration unless you were privy to all the factors taken into consideration when the decision was made

 

Even the Govt. admit it was a 'mistake'. Apparently someone missed an email.

 

10 hours ago, Brew said:

To Labours delight the virus is like manna from heaven and has placed the Tories  in a very precarious position (we could be in for an even bigger crash than 2008). The damage to the economy caused by Covid is likely to wreck the spending plans and give an open goal to Starmer and the yah boo merchants.

 

So why would this be worse than the extreme and malicious opportunism of the Tories, who only managed to get elected as part of a Coalition after 2008?

10 hours ago, Brew said:

How do you find a hotspot without mass testing?

 

 

 

From cases.

10 hours ago, Brew said:

To shield everyone from contact with the virus until a vaccine is produced. The lockdown is not tight enough

 

Finally we agree on something.

Except that the forces of Capitalism will demand a 're-opening' of the economy before the virus is under control, and the 'Coronavirus' is of the same broad group whch has caused the Common Cold for millennia.  And we have never found a Vaccine for it...

 

As a final comment on that.  'This Morning' prog on the telly had that bloody awful woman Street-Porter gobbing off.  She went on about how the UK population was already 'Fed Up' with 'The Lockdown'.  She presented containment measures as if they were some sort of unwarranted imposition on the populace.. rather than a measure designed to be of benefit to all.  I wanted to shoot her.  All we need in these times is some influential idiot undermining the common sense.

[DJ360 6,721]

Interesting comments above by PP, regarding leaders.

 

Starmer?  Surely far too early to judge but he was Director of the DPP for what that's worth and isn't entirely lacking in capability.

 

Johnson?  I'm mystifed why people support him.  Charismatic?  Well.. a bit.. if you are particularly ill-informed and undiscriminating.. but basically he's a chancer with little talent and a big mouth.

 

Hancock?  Definite 'Rabbit in the Headlights' though I'll admit he's raised his game from pathetic to crap in tha last couple of days.

 

Dominic Raab?   Really????

 

Gove?  Ye Gods!!  A sort of Trump with elocution lessons.  The same sort of self belief in denial of facts which allows Trump to be such an utter **** NOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

Sunak.  Well he can at least string words into a sentence and he can sound convincing. but whether he could tear himself away from high finance for long enough to actually care about the 'little people'.. who knows...

 

Priti Patel?  Horrible woman.  Shallow, narrow, malicous etc., and not even half as attractive as some seem to think. No!!! Squared..

 

The present reality is that our once great country is being run by a bunch of incompetent self interested f***w**s.  Elected by  a larger number of incompetent, ill-informed F***w**s

 

May God.. (Or any viable alternative) help us.

[Brew 5,404]

4 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The present reality is that our once great country is being run by a bunch of incompetent self interested f***w**s.  Elected by  a larger number of incompetent, ill-informed F***w**s

 

Perhaps we should remind ourselves this is not Pink Fish Media.....

I don't consider that I fit your description and suspect more than a few here will feel the same...

[Stuart.C 491]

The reason Conservatives got in was because the F***w**s in charge of Labour couldn't inspire enough of their own membership, let alone the floating general public, to vote for them.

[radfordred 6,284]

Did wonder why DJ/Mulardman did not post these same rants on Pink Fish Media? Get a much bigger audience? 

 

https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/members/mullardman.720/

 

I feel like a fuckwitt because still I voted Labour  

[DJ360 6,721]

7 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The present reality is that our once great country is being run by a bunch of incompetent self interested f***w**s.  Elected by  a larger number of incompetent, ill-informed F***w**s

 

OK, I unreservedly withdraw this sentence.  No intention to insult anyone here.

[Oztalgian 3,269]

DJ360

In all probability there is an element of truth in what you said but that is democracy for you.

I wonder what the outcome would have been if the UK had compulsory voting like we do in Australia.

Around 35% of the population did not even bother to vote.

[Brew 5,404]

Austerity was what exactly?  I'll tell you.  It was all but indiscriminate cuts to services etc., and an excuse to try to flog off every last thing which was publicly owned.

 

Austerity is controversial I grant you. It is an attempt to get out of control government spending and national debt down. Look at the figures. From the early 90's to 2008 it was averaging just over 30%. It was reducing slightly during the period '96 - 01. Probably due to the inherited policies of Major and Co. 2001-07 and Labours deficit spend spend spend starts to take hold and debt starts to rise again.

 

2008 and the crash, not labours fault but though some agreed with Browns actions in dealing with the fallout, it was not in reality very effective. The national debt stood not at an average 30% when he was voted out but over 80%.

 

He left the UK with almost no gold reserves and millions of workers’ pensions in jeopardy.  Who punished whom?

 

To have continued the way we were going after Browns disastrous tenure at the treasury would be suicidal, the country would have been bankrupt in very short order. Labour, despite silly attempts to change the culture by becoming 'New' Labour, have never lost their basic belief in throwing good money after bad to solve problems.

 

Long live boom 'n' bust.

 

 

Brown spent millions rescuing the Banks, but that did not mean there was no money or credit left

 

There it is again, 'we had credit left'. The belief we can borrow and spend our way out of debt, rather like the financial institutional thinking that contributed to the crash.

The UK has only a Aa2 (3rd level) credit rating now, down from the top tier AAA we had before both parties started making huge spending plans.

 

 

Mick Phillpot from Derby, who was a genuine self proclaimed scrounger and finally murderer of six of his children.  The DM stated 'There Are Thousands Like Him Out There'.  A sickening misuse of press power. 

 

One swallow does not a summer make and one scurrilous headline is not a reflection of government policy.

 

 

Blair was of course wrong on WMD.. I have no idea what he was about..how much he was in thrall to the US etc., and how much he was really conned by his own 'advisers'.  

 

I would not belittle Blair by suggesting he is/was so gullible he was taken in by his advisors. As far as I know he is intelligent and as well as parliamentary advisors he had the full resources of GCHG, MI6, the Foreign Office, the Military and doubtless others.

 

He knew damn well he was not being truthful with the electorate or Parliament. I don't suppose we will ever know why or what grand scheme went pear shaped.

 

I would not compare the losses, bad as they were, suffered by those you claim had the indignity of a fit to work inquiry with the losses suffered by the wives, partners and children (who did not volunteer), of those soldiers who came back damaged - or not at all.

 

 

We had NHS crying out for more money for years and that only to cover 'normal' UK health issues.  Tories were year on year keeping NHS budgets below inflation. 

 

Is somewhat different to your earlier assertion that 'All previous Govt.s even under Thatcher maintained funding for the NHS at or around inflation'. 

 

I say again the NHS will, under its present chaotic management, always be 'crying out' for more money.

 

You are confusing the vulnerability of Black and Asian people in general.

 

I'm not confusing anything of the sort. In order to make a point you said "almost all NHS staff who have died from Covid were Black or Asian". I merely asked for evidence. 

 

Even the Govt. admit it was a 'mistake'. Apparently someone missed an email.

 

And a missed e-mail is an arrogant knee jerk is it?

 

 

The damage to the economy caused by Covid is likely to wreck the spending plans and give an open goal to Starmer and the yah boo merchants. 

So why would this be worse than the extreme and malicious opportunism of the Tories, who only managed to get elected as part of a Coalition after 2008? 

 

Not too sure how your answer ties in to my statement. What extreme and malicious opportunism are we talking about? What does a narrow victory or a coalition have to do with it?

 

 

Finally we agree on something.

Except that the forces of Capitalism will demand a 're-opening' of the economy before the virus is under control,

 

I agree but rather than the evil forces of Capitalism I tend to think the authorities will bend to the demands of a tired and increasingly frustrated people.

 

 

Re Janet Street Porter.

 It's sad when silly people make fatuous statements but that's the price we pay for free speech. I'm afraid there is no cure for stupid. 

 

I heard on the radio this morning some presenter giving a minister a hard time about David Icke and why YouTube allowed him to broadcast his nonsense. Again we must allow idiots to have their say even if we don't like it. If as some say he's putting people at risk then refute it, the authorities have far more channels than he does. If we do start to insist that unelected and unaccountable enterprises start censoring what we can see and hear we are on a very slippery slope indeed.

[DJ360 6,721]

Apologies again to all.  Not for my views, which I proudly hold, but for getting a little 'fractious' last night.  Yesterday was not a good day for me.

 

Brew, I can understand your arguments about public spending etc.,although I don't  agree.  However, I still find it odd that you seem to completely dismiss any possibility that the Tories used the post 2008 crash environment and austerity, not just fot the 'noble' purpose of rescuing our economy.. but also for an orgy of unnecessary privatisations, cuts etc., for the wholesale demolition of the Tertiary Education Sector, for practically all post 16 Vocational training.  Also they quietly created a whole raft of 'privatised' replacements for a number of Govt agencies. Their argument presumably being their tired old 'Private is Always More Efficient' (It isn't) but their real motivation being simply to turn every last Govt funded function into a 'Business Opportunity.'  In any other context it would be called Asset Stripping.

[PeverilPeril 3,279]

Scrapping the Probation service was a classic example of privatisation for the sake of it. It was deemed an efficient and effective service, so why? There have been a lot of bad things happen since then.

[Brew 5,404]

The reduction (if in fact there is any), in Further Education is not easy to assess, nor are the reasons why. The UK was on par with Germany, France and Japan in % of population terms up until 2003, now we are almost at the bottom of the list. This despite the fact the number of 16-18 year-olds staying in full-time education has increased, with colleges becoming the ‘default’ institutions.

 

Sorry to say it Col but the drop actually started on your watch!   

 

When we refer to tertiary education we tend to think of Cof FE but there are others to consider.

For at least the last 20 years there has been an increase in competition to provide FE services. 

Colleges are mostly competing with the new universities, the old polytechnics,  but local authorities  also make various provisions.

Vocational training has been forced to change as the result of changes in technology, a lot of the old skill sets are not required now. Funding for apprenticeships goes mainly to employers not colleges as before. So not demolished, changed with the times.

 

Labour and Tory both supported various schemes of competitive tendering. Both meddled with the funding, both are responsible and  have nothing to brag about in that area. It would help if government, in this case Tory, stopped interfering and quit moving the goal posts.

Whilst Labour seems to have no cohesive policy other than banning private schools and demanding 25 billion pounds. Again the old 'lets throw money at the problem'.

 

Privatisation of essential services is wrong, no argument there.

 

There were however state owned enterprises that need to change. Prior to privatisation state owned industries were bloated, badly managed, inefficient and a huge drain on the public purse.

After privatisation productivity roughly doubled in Steel, Coal, Ports and BT in fact the mere threat of privatisation made British Steel radically change its ways and become more productive. After privatisation BA expanded rapidly and became one the worlds premier airlines. For the consumer the benefits came in reduced prices.

Not all privatisation was bad

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mary1947 2,079]

I am with you Brew on education when o' when is UK going to get it right?  I started at the begin of NVQs the Hairdressing industry was the pilot scheme for them, the Industry and the lead body got together to produce a qualification that would be open to all.  The industry to say what they wanted an how to do it correctly and the Lead body to give the Qualification. (e x City n Guilds) It was mostly aimed at slow leaner's (not being unkind) but before NVQ everything was based on exam result's which you always took at the end of term. Quite a few students had a job remembering works taught at the beginning of the year, and the NVQs were based on course work, Q/A practical assessment  but there was also an exam at the end of the NVQ 1-2-3  to me, it was a good system as we had Units and elements  ex UNIT 1  Reception Elements 1 Greeting a client E 2 How to book an appointment E 3 How you should answer the phone and so on and so on Units were from 1-12 with about 4/6 elements in them. The NVQ which i taught covered every part of hairdressing you could name, now when I visit the salon myself I always ask the junior how she is getting on, I was taken back when she told me that now you can just do the Unit you want to, so if you don't want to cover Perming you can opt out of this Unit. So what will happen in the future I don't think that we will have any all round hair stylist.  Must say I worked for BHC which took all ages which i thought was a good idea as some times you do not know what you would like as a job till you are older, now I also worked for NHTA  which we only took students up to 18 but they also have to have salon placement. NHTA was a private company and they were paid on how many passed and obtained there NVQ. you were under lots more pressure to get the student a qualification. Then we had to change our teaching method as we were ask to check spelling and grammar in the students portfolio's. As I told my boss just before I handed in my notice yes I have my 730 teacher training certificate but this doe's not mean that i can teach English. The collages now have gone in with the Uni's I think this was a bad bad move.  To me both have a different kind of Education.  I now rest my case.   

[Brew 5,404]

More fatuous questions from the new Labour supremo. 

 

Quote:-

Newly-elected Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer urged the government to be transparent over its lockdown strategy and to clarify how long Mr Johnson will be "out of action".

 

Why not ask a useful question like,  how long a is a piece of string, we've all wanted to know that for ages...

[Waddo 921]

What can be more transparent than, "stay at home and don't go out" until the experts say differently!!. And no doubt, Boris will give him a call when he feels better!! Just to keep him in the loop.

[Stuart.C 491]

Ah, that's a good idea.

Lets publish the Lockdown strategy, so that minority of the general population who still don't get it know exactly what's planned and can find every way to try to beat it.

 

It must be just a coincidence that lots of motorcycle owners have realise they're low on milk and bread and suddenly felt the need to travel to Matlock, on this sunny weekend, past my Sons house to buy some.

 

I just hope Derbshire Police are sat at the bottom of the hill turning them around.

[roger peatman 337]

2 hours ago, Brew said:

 

 

Why not ask a useful question like,  how long a is a piece of string, we've all wanted to know that for ages...

 

I'm sure the "Oracle" will be along soon to tell us !

[DJ360 6,721]

Rather late to the party here.  I'll reply to several points tomorrow.

 

Who's this 'Oracle'?

[DJ360 6,721]

On 4/10/2020 at 2:11 PM, Brew said:

Sorry to say it Col but the drop actually started on your watch!   

 

Mary is correct that the UK has been making a prize b**** up of FE/vocational training since at least the early 70s. And yes, I'd blame Govts of all stripes for not having the balls to compel 'industry and commerce' to take responsibility for training and educating their own future workforces.

 

Too tired to argue now but it was actually Blunkett who did away with almost all vocational YTS type training just as it was maturing into something worthwhile. and instead forced kids into colleges where many really didn't want to be. Still.. at least they got EMA.  No more... There were also serious anomalies in the NVQ system which meant many left with a level 2 qualification which was all but useless to them.

 

After 2008 the Tories began dismantling the non advanced FE system, which is why for example Knowsley College's biggest site has gone and my daughter now lives on what was the playing field for Worsley College.  There are countless other examples.

 

The Tories are still claiming something like 400000 'apprenticeships' which are just nominal places which mean bugger all until some employer fills them.

 

Thatch did away with Industry Training Boards and nothing has really replaced them since.  It's a mess.

On 4/10/2020 at 2:11 PM, Brew said:

Vocational training has been forced to change as the result of changes in technology, a lot of the old skill sets are not required now. Funding for apprenticeships goes mainly to employers not colleges as before. So not demolished, changed with the times.

 

This is just incorrect.

[DJ360 6,721]

I'm getting rather fed up with people being fed up with people asking the Govt. questions.  I really cannot understand how people can NOT see that the present bunch are in disarray, stalling, deflecting and basically bloody hopeless.

 

Where is Patel?  What is Cummings up to?  Frankly I don't much care but where is PPE, Where is testing?

 

The cynicism and cheek of Hancock when he said that 'We can't be sure that NHS Workers' who died of CV caught it at work'. REALLY???

 

And then 'NHS workers must be more economical in their use if PPE'.,  He's been promising more PPE for WEEKS.. he's been saying much the same about testing.  It has become apparrent that he is stalling and lying.  He says there's enough PPE, the staff on the front line say there isn't.  Who would you believe?

 

It's also now becoming apparent that this lot ignored the disastrous outcomes of a pandemic control study/exercise in 2016.

 

Yes, we all make mistakes, but most of us don't make a career out of it.

 

The other aspect of this whole Govt approach to CV is that it is exactly the same pattern that the Tories exhibit over everything. 

 

Quick to dish out tax breaks and privatisation 'goodies' to their fellow travellers.  Quick to punish those they see as 'feckless'.  Yet somehow very slow to right wrongs.

 

So. Austerity was quick, Benefit cuts were quick, in fact many cuts were quick. Privatisations were pushed through quickly.. almost as if they were panicking and had to get it all done before anyone noticed.

 

Yet.. when it comes to the housing crisis.. (remember that?  It's still there....) they were 'Looking into it' AKA. Doing nothing.

Adult Social Care.  "We have plans" AKA doing nothing.

Blah Blah.. " We have begun a thorough review" AKA doing nothing.

Blah..  "Investigations continue'.  AKA doing nothing.

 

Can people really not see the pattern?

 

Grenfell.  3 years on and almost nothing resolved.  People still living in potential death traps. Tenants/purchasers expected to pay for replacement of cladding fraudulently fitted. Govt. clearly protecting the crooks.

Windrush.  The same.

 

I don't care what fundamental political philosophies people hold.  Just because your instinct is Conservative, does not mean that you are obliged to excuse the crassness and incompetence of the Johnson Govt.  I'm accused often enough of excusing everything Labour.. though I don't.

 

I'm sure this is not what Johnson and his bunch of misfits signed up for.  They were full of puffed up 'Get Brexit Done' bull**** and really just playing about with one issue.

 

But, sadly, they have been landed with something real.  To 'Get Covid-19 Done'

 

They are failing and they either need to step up, form a true Govt. of National Unity, or step aside.

 

People cannot wait any longer for effective action.

 

They are not coping and the result of their failure is  death for far too many.

[DJ360 6,721]

On 4/10/2020 at 4:45 PM, Brew said:

More fatuous questions from the new Labour supremo. 

 

Quote:-

Newly-elected Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer urged the government to be transparent over its lockdown strategy and to clarify how long Mr Johnson will be "out of action".

 

Why not ask a useful question like,  how long a is a piece of string, we've all wanted to know that for ages...

 

 

It is not unreasonable to ask the Govt. about its EXIT strategy from lockdown.  This is not about asking for timings, it is about asking what the plan is when the time is right.  Current evidence to me shows Govt has NO exit strategy.

[The Engineer 613]

At some point we have to reverse all the measures and the exit strategy is just a plan of what, where and when.  I am sure they have a draft plan but it's not ready for sharing yet.  Obviously it can't be all at once so we need the science to help shape the plan.  That comes from analysis of infection and death rates (have we peaked out yet? - we should know soon) and testing (have you got it and have you had it? - still a few weeks or months away from mass testing).  Vaccines are too far away to be factored in just yet but if found in time, they will help us avoid a repeat pandemic next year.

Geographic/demographic data analysis will come into play - densely populated areas may have to wait longer for relaxed rules.

Aside of the science, there's the art of managing expectation.  The currently small percentage of the public breaching law/guidance will undoubtedly increase as the lockdown persists, that's why they left it as long as possible before clamping down and why they are hesitant to clamp down further.  Telling us that we each have a part to play is classic change management.  They have to keep us in a state of optimism that the end is in sight (even if it isn't) so they will drip feed any good news while reinforcing the 'stay at home' message.

[HSR 286]

Agree, regarding the stupid questions the broadcasters ask,.Peston the pessimistic, from the mainstream is probably the worst!

In the current climate.Why ask a hypothetical question?

 

You get the daily report on the sad situation, 

Any questions?

Silly question's nobody has an answer to..

 

A fake positive would be more constructive...maybe they are reserved for the politicians!