Anything Political

[DJ360 6,730]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:28 PM, Brew said:

It's easy to denigrate Boris but let's not forget he is a formidable opponent, a merciless strategist and one of the great survivalists of modern times. <snip> Somehow voters find it, and his apparent stance against johnny foreigner, appealing. He did after all produce the largest landslide for almost 50 years that swept him into power.

 

All pretty much true.

But.. all Johnson needed to do to gain power, was to feign support for Brexit (He was never a Brexiteer, in fact quite the opposite..), and promise to 'Get it Dun'.  A huge proportion of Brexit supporters, were those who would formerly have been unquestioning Labour voters. They not only 'bought' the'Vote Leave' lies, but were left with no alternative since Labour tied themselves in knots, Corbyn was equivocal re: the EU and the predominantly right wing press supported Johnson and Brexit.

 

Of course, since then, Johnson has utterly failed to 'Dun' Brexit, has begun reneging on 'Levelling Up', and also managed to bugger up practically everything else he has touched.

 

On reflection, I'd prefer it if he bumbled on until the next election, because he is stacking up 'cock ups' and voter disenchantment at a rate of knots.  But it looks like he will be booted out sooner or later by the dark forces at the core of the Tory Party.  He was only ever useful as a populist, and therefore 'centrist' leader, to dupe the electorate.  The core of the party is far right and they are seeing their chance to pounce.

Despite Labour's internal fighting and leadership vacuum, there are still millions of traditional moderate/democratic/socialist voters out there..looking for a 'home'. Many would switch to a decent, well presented and coherent offer from the Lib Dems.  Last I looked the Greens were closer to 'old Labour' than most.

 

Most import^ntly, the few v^guely competent opposition p^rties need to work together to get rid of the Tories, form  ^ co^lition ^nd bring in PR. Once th^t h^ppens the Tories will be to^st.

Apologies, the ^ key on the keybo^rd has just given up.  Sp^re in the loft which I'll dig out tomorrow.

[Brew 5,416]

12 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Most import^ntly, the few v^guely competent opposition p^rties need to work together to get rid of the Tories, form  ^ co^lition ^nd bring in PR

 

I admire your optimism, but if we wait for that to happen the Tories will be in for a very long time.

 

The only serious opposition is the Labour Party, but they're not even remotely credible at the moment

 

The Liberals don't like how things are, but equally don't know what to do about it. They haven't had a presence on the political scene since the days of Ashdown and Kennedy.  Clegg was a Tory lapdog, and the rest since then have made a passable impression of being invisible.

 

The Greens are trying to sell pie in the sky with obscure and ill thought out dreams of carbon-neutral power for all, complete with rainbows and unicorns.

 

SNP and DUP are one trick ponies with very parochial aims.

The SDLP do nothing but split the Labour vote by standing on the sidelines and shouting that everyone but themselves have got it wrong.

 

Vaguely competent? - yup, very vague...

 

[philmayfield 6,133]

Politicians pay, although high compared with the average, is considerably lower than able people can get in business and the professions. The problem is that to give the existing MP’s a substantial increase wouldn’t make them any cleverer or abler. The system has got to change to attract competent people into politics and that has to include rewards comparable with the private sector.

[Brew 5,416]

  Many in the government are Oxford graduates. That does not make them competent at governance but is a clear demonstration they are reasonably well-educated and more than likely able to gain employment with decent salaries and prospects. Accepting this, it must be clear that there are other factors in play that make them enter politics.

 

It's a national pastime to denigrate politicians and whilst true some fall along the way, most enter with good and clear intentions. We, my self included, have all joined the feeding frenzy of disparaging MP's etc. when they make mistakes, but the truth is they're not all incapable.

 

One of the pitfalls of a democracy is governance by committee and getting any committee to sing the same song is at times an impossibility, nothing to do with competence.  A compromise is the best that can be hoped for in many cases, but is not necessarily the best course of action.

[philmayfield 6,133]

They have to have a sense of altruism and public duty but there’s nothing like cash to attract the best brains.

[Jill Sparrow 10,305]

1 minute ago, philmayfield said:

They have to have a sense of altruism and public duty

Have you fallen off this year's Christmas tree, Mayfield?  

[Brew 5,416]

14 minutes ago, philmayfield said:

They have to have a sense of altruism and public duty but there’s nothing like cash to attract the best brains.

 

But that rather emphasises my point. Those who join purely for monetary reasons are not really the ones best suited for public service. Intellect alone is not the best metric to measure suitability.

[philmayfield 6,133]

Intellect can be tested by examination. How do you measure altruism though? From my own experience of the parish and county councillors I’ve  known they haven’t been the sharpest tools in the box. My local MP is Robert Jenrick. Need I say more?

[philmayfield 6,133]

29 minutes ago, Jill Sparrow said:

Have you fallen off this year's Christmas tree, Mayfield?  

No Christmas tree goes up in this house until Christmas Eve and comes down as soon as possible after that. Christmas is a pain in the backside!

[Jill Sparrow 10,305]

I'm relieved to hear it!

[Brew 5,416]

1 hour ago, philmayfield said:

My local MP is Robert Jenrick. Need I say more?

 

And paying him more would ensure no cronyism or underhanded dealings?

[philmayfield 6,133]

Maybe the temptations would be less. Who knows?

[Brew 5,416]

Nah, a crook is a crook is a crook...

[DJ360 6,730]

I'll return to the more complex arguments later, but if you want the very definition of Hypocrisy...

 

'Lord' Frost was heard on TV yesterday, making a big thing about opposing 'Illiberal Covid restrictions'.  Yet oddly, I didn't hear him promising a last ditch stand against legislation designed to criminalise protest, restrict voting rights, and 'hobble' our independent judiciary.

 

Selective liberality?

[DJ360 6,730]

Boris Johnson in his schoolmaster's words.

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/1863944713844924/posts/3115462418693141/?substory_index=0

 

No surprises there then.  ...

[MargieH 7,600]

Col, the link isn’t working but I read this on ‘Best of Britain’ Facebook page.  

[catfan 14,793]

Just how long do you need to defend your hero Tony Blair then ?

300k signed the petition to remove his knighthood & still counting.

All you can do is slag off Johnson instead, most of which I agree with you.

[Brew 5,416]

5 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Boris Johnson in his schoolmaster's words

Whoever had a school report that did not say 'must try harder'?    

[catfan 14,793]

1 hour ago, catfan said:

Just how long do you need to defend your hero Tony Blair then ?

300k signed the petition to remove his knighthood & still counting.

All you can do is slag off Johnson instead, most of which I agree with you.

500k & counting.

[DJ360 6,730]

On 1/3/2022 at 6:27 PM, catfan said:

Just how long do you need to defend your hero Tony Blair then ?

 

Who is  defending Blair?

[catfan 14,793]

What a surprise.

[Oztalgian 3,292]

On 1/4/2022 at 5:54 AM, Brew said:

Whoever had a school report that did not say 'must try harder'?

I had one that said "Tries hard, to dodge work"

[DJ360 6,730]

Will Johnson resign?  

Will he be pushed?

 

'Partygate', is just another in a whole series of issues, which are not just PR disasters for the Tories, but clear confirmation of what those with a minimum of one functioning brain cell already knew... I.E. The Tory Party is done with any pretence of governing on behalf of all of the electorate., it is, blindingly and obviously only concerned with enriching itself and its backers, and driving this country back to pre WW2 levels of 'them and us', maybe even to Victorian levels..

Of course Johnson was useful as what many were fooled into seeing as a 'likeable buffoon', with centrist, even populist leanings... He was able to push on the wide open Brexit fuelled door and deliver a stonking majority, but I doubt many in the Tory Party were really fooled by that. And in any case, what this utterly self interested and terminally dishonest ***ehole was really about, was clearly signalled by his behaviour in minority opposition, and in his manisfesto....

He is a proto fascist,with self declared delusions of grandeur. 'King of the World'.. intent upon pushing through legislation to limit voting rights, rights to protest, and the power of our INDEPENDENT judiciary to limit the power of Govt. So long as it is his Govt.

He's not a buffoon, a clown, a likeable rogue or even a very naughty boy.. he is a megalomaniac, of very doubtful heritage, and a very dangerous man.

Sadly.. he is only the tip of the iceberg, and having used him to gain a huge majority, the Far Right Tory Grandees will now dispose of him and appoint another Puppet to do their bidding.

One who is less accident prone and less likely, by alienating the electorate, to scupper their long term.. quiet ambition.

 

Discuss.

 

[catfan 14,793]

Whether Johnson goes or not, which I hope he does, there is absolutely no chance of Labour winning an election any time soon. That's why there is no rush for the Tories to oust Johnson.

[trogg 2,016]

Its OK for people to push to get rid of Johnson but who is going to replace him? It will be the same unseen group pushing the same agenda led by a new Figure head. The future of British democracy concerns me.