When is a pint not a pint.

[Bip 88]

!rulez! Here we go again I hear you say Bip’s going to give us all a lecture on the benefits of drinking real ale especially Harvest pale? Well you assumed wrongly!

I had spent Sunday afternoon on Bramcote Park with me dog Diezel and had missed my usually eating time for Sunday dinner, as if I have one. So I thought with it being such a nice evening I would take a walk down to me two local pubs for me dinner, I would choose which one of the two I would have my dinner at when I got down there. The two pubs in question are the Cadland and Charlton once privately owned but sadly no more.

Some years ago they were taken over as a lot have been by multi national chains, turning them into eating-houses, ones a barras Pub and the other is a Ember chain pub, I have no argument with the Ember pub only the Barras pub.

Crossing the car park as you have to, to get to the front door there was a notice scribbled in chalk on a ‘A frame’ board stating that john Smiths Bitter was on special offer at £2 a pint, funny I thought the last time a drank in here it was on offer at £1-90 a pint but that was several weeks ago and we have had a budget since then.

After several minutes wait I was at last served, John Smiths pint of please, ‘sorry mate no John Smiths!

Ok I thought what now? Do you have any other bitters mate? Don’t know, came the reply.

What a pub with no bitter? Was my sarcastic retort?

After several moments discussion with whom I presumed was the landlady for the week my bar person came back and informed me they had London pride and Bass Bitter, where I said, ‘over there mate?

Tucked around the corner of the smoking side of the bar there were three hand pumps, two with clips on and the other naked.

Not being a fan of any of those I settled for London Pride after all I have to be desperate to drink Larger or Guinness, I will drink cider if pushed or even Mild if pushed even harder but never J20 no matter what flovour.

It may have been the weather but the pint he presented me with was not a full pint, at least an inch and a half was froth.

I looked at him and I guess he got the message that I wasn’t a happy bunny with what he had just presented me with and immediately attempted to top the glass up.

After several pulls of the hand pump he once again presented me this time with only an inch to go to the top of the glass to accomplish a full pint of beer.

By this time there were several people waiting to be served after all he was on his own, so leaving me with his feeble attempt to fill my glass up to the measure I asked for he proceeded to serve the waiting customers without begging his leave with me first, if he had he would have got the message once again I wasn’t a happy punter.

I caught the eye of another bar person who had just stepped behind the bar from a stint of collecting dirty glasses.

He came over and I asked him if he could top this pint up to a full measure after all I had been standing here for several minutes now and initially I had asked for a pint, I told him.

By this time the head on my beer had found it’s own level, an inch below the rim of said glass with very little froth. Cheers came my reply when he brought back to me a glass with a pint of beer in it, exactly what I had asked for in the beginning, all this had taken a good five minutes to accomplish.

Is it me or is it another con we beer drinkers are suffering, why is beer served in some pubs in glasses that only hold one pint and that’s only if the beer is at the top of the glass.

Personally I think we are being conned in thinking that when a glass of beer is offered to us with over an inch of froth on the top that we have a pint.

Don’t get me wrong I do like an head on my pint but when one is offered which is obviously not a pint of beer but one third is made up of froth I draw a line.

By the way the Gammon I settled for my Sunday dinner was superb…

Pub in question..The Charlton, Chilwell.

Bip.

[Limey 242]

I read something a week or two ago that some large percentage of "pints" in the UK, are a bit short of their mark. It may have been on the CAMRA website.

I agree with you - a pint should be exactly that! If more customers would point out that a full pint had not been delivered, the problem may not be some endemic!

[pemberton 15]

BIP, being a real ale drinker of more years than I wish to recall, I agree with you one hundred percent. Whenever I go into a pub and only get a proportion of a pint I always ask for it to be topped up, some pubs do it willingly but others very begrudgingly. When I go out with my mate and ask for a pint to be topped up he looks at me gone out and says that he would never dare to ask - there lies the crux of the matter, the majority of us Brits take it lying down and wouldn't dream to complain! I always do, after all, you wouldn't go to Tesco for 5LB of spuds and accept 4LB would you? Incidentally I have taken to using the Vat and Fiddle just down from Midland Station, a real ales drinkers pub, they usually have about seven or eight different real ales on and that many different brands of whisky it would take a lifetime to sample each one. So come us Brits, if we are being short changed, COMPLAIN. By the way I always 'barter' when buying large items from any shop, furniture, white goods etc, and nine times out of ten I can strike a bargain, we just have to have the bottle to speak out!

[Bip 88]

The Vat and Fiddle is one of those pubs where one doesn’t have to ask for a top up which is how all pubs should be like.

Pem! The Vat and Fiddle is one of those I frequent too when out on that side of Nottingham, with it being a Brewery tap gives one the confidence that what one orders is what one gets and IMO castle rock brewery brews some of the finest ales about, Harvest Pale, Elsie Mo, just to mention two.

It’s a pity they don’t sell over the Internet because if they did I would buy several grates of you know what.

Have you tried The News House on Canal Street? They too sell Micro Brewery Beer but not always those I like, can be a little hit and miss but makes a change from my usual haunts.

When my wife was alive we use to go in the Vat and Fiddle with our friends on a Saturday sometimes Friday night Sunday even, the two women use to drink Cider and us two blokes drank Harvest pale or Elsie Mo more so my mate drank Elsie Mo because I’m not keen on a strong alcohol based beer more a session beer person me. In summer it’s nice too to sit outside on the table benches they have now, a little more comfy than those seats they have indoors? By the way aren’t the toilets nice now?

Compared to how they were it’s a massive improvement, glad to see the Condom machine is back.

This short measure malarkey is a con to make the barrel last longer therefore getting more ale out of it that was put into it. Money, money, money, that’s what it’s all about. I wonder sometimes are these people that pull beer for these multi nationals trained to do so, or are they told yes you have the job so get on with it, by the way I shall deduct from your wages all beer that is in the drip strays at the end of the night or your shift, surely if all pubs sold beer in over sized glasses that would cut out wastage and us punters asking for top ups? in some cases I wish they, the multi nationals would bring back measured dispencing beer taps like we use to have in shippo and Home Ales pubs rother than leaving it up to the bar persons discretion how much beer goes into a pint pot.

Bip.

[Frank 13]

Sign up here Den http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=239048 !tony!

[Bip 88]

Thanks Frank I have now Signed.

Bip.

[Limey 242]

This short measure malarkey is a con to make the barrel last longer therefore getting more ale out of it that was put into it. Money, money, money, that’s what it’s all about.

Interesting point!

My sister used to work for H.M. Customs, and one of the jobs she did was to check that pubs, clubs, etc. were paying the correct taxes on alcohol. Typically they pay the tax on the quantity of beer/spirits they buy - but they CHARGE the customer by the drink. Therefore, if they can get more drinks out of the bottle/barrel, they not only sell a few more drinks, but they get to keep the tax money too! This can certainly add up - several pints/barrel or shots/bottle.

My sister and her colleagues would sit in a bar and count the drinks sold, then follow up sometime later to see how much alcohol they claimed to have sold - if the numbers did not coincide, they were nicked! Could be the only instance where the Govt. was doing something to make sure we got what we paid for as well as them!

[Bip 88]

Exactly the point I was making. The more they can stretch a barrel the more beer they manage to get out hence more profit per barrel.

I brew my own beer, not all the time contrary to belief only at certain times of the year when it’s cold mostly, October to March mainly.

Ok I don’t have to pay tax or have the overheads these larger breweries have but I can brew a very simple pint for less than ten pence a pint at around 4%ABV.

The profit on a pint of beer must be quite substantial even when all deductions are taken from it.

Bip.

[Stan 386]

As to beer measures,I seem to recall there was a case brought to court (?in the 60`s) where the judge actually decided the exact definition of where the head on a pint should come to and how deep it should be.(the head)

Talking of mild ,was it not the case in the old days where the overflow from bitter flowed into containers to be recycled in darker/mild beers ?

[Bip 88]

Talking of mild ,was it not the case in the old days where the overflow from bitter flowed into containers to be recycled in darker/mild beers ?

I beleive that was the done thing in those days Stan. I have seen it done when someone asked for a mixed pint...but not these days.

Bip.

[radfordred 6,284]

Hand pulled beer should be by law dispensed and served in crown stamped glasses which is i believe a 20oz glass .

Unless as your John Smiths would have been from crown stamped beer meter which should be served in a plain 23oz glass ( the meter is sealed and only serves half pint per click )

Plus a plain glasses are about £20-30 cheaper to buy a box of 48 glasses than the government stamped glass .

[Stan 386]

You should all have pity on we South Australians. The Imperial pint in Ozzie is 568ml.,but in S.A. it is 425 ml. What a con!

[Bip 88]

Hand pulled beer should be by law dispensed and served in crown stamped glasses which is i believe a 20oz glass .

Unless as your John Smiths would have been from crown stamped beer meter which should be served in a plain 23oz glass ( the meter is sealed and only serves half pint per click )

Plus a plain glasses are about £20-30 cheaper to buy a box of 48 glasses than the government stamped glass .

That explains why over sized glasses have been phased out, no more metered pumps anymore and 20oz glasses are cheaper by the crate load.

Thanks Red.

Bip.

[Limey 242]

Our local in Long Eaton (The Petersham - don't laugh) used to have the metered pumps - but I seem to remember the glasses were oversize and had "Pint to line" (and a line) stamped on them.

I believe the court case mentioned was about Guiness - and if the head constituted part of the pint. For a while, pubs would have a "scraper" that they used to take the head off a pint of Guiness - but that seems (thankfully) to have died out.

[pemberton 15]

BIP you can buy 'Elsie Mo' in bulk from the Vat and Fiddle, I believe its six for the price of five, the pub displays a sign advertising this fact, look for it next time you are in. Another thing about the Vat is that they give you a card for stickers, collect eight and its worth a free pint, a good deal is that! Yes I have been down to the Newshouse which is another good pub for real ale and also quite regularly go into one in your neck of the woods - The Victoria, a great pub. The Johnson Arms at Lenton is not too bad but sometimes gets full of students and another good one is 'The Boat' on Priory St just down from the Johnsons Arms - No, I'm not really a boozer! just like to travel. Getting back to short measure, yes some landlords do stretch a barrel as far as it will go so the thing to do is vote with your feet, especially when the brewery gives them a bit extra in the form of ullage.

[Frank 13]

Me and the good lady had a little trip around the canal area on Saturday night for a change.

First stop was the Canalhouse which we walked to from the tram terminus. Thick with blue fag smoke, no2 had to queue for the bar and the HP was not up to the standard of the Poacher.

Next was the Navigation - well, I won't be goin back, although the young lass setting up for the live music was very nice - didn't let the missus see me lookin'

On to the TRIP. It's changed from the laid back quiet pub I knew from old but the old rhino horn and ring is still there! I remember courtin' and havin a go on that in the late 60's.

Up the road to the one opposite the castle - I think it's called the castle - but can't be sure. A bit packed and summat going off down stairs near the lavs - looked like a bit of a rum to do so we supped up quick and moved on over to the Sal and then into the Royal Children. Geez, that brought back memories.

Finally a brisk walk up towards Mansfield road for the bus home but not before a couple in the Peach Tree.

Not a bad night out but I think I'll stick to the other side of town. no1